Salary Cap: Capgeek - 2013-14 Projections - We're #1 !!

Bardown warrior

Registered User
Oct 26, 2013
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Mississauga
We actually could also have more cap space then people anticipate due to the Olympics.

I just looked on capgeek and it counts 195 days which appears to include the Olympics.

Over the Olympic period the Leafs could send Holland, Ashton, Bodie, Smith and accumulate some cap relief for those two weeks.

If we dealt Fraser who isn't ever being used for a late round pick (or even waived him) we could also net some additional cap relief.

Combine the Olympic break with the fact that we shouldn't pay the crazy deadline prices to bring in upgrades and it'd appear we'll be just fine with the cap.

There is an olympic trade freeze that starts on the 7th (i think it is) not sure when that is lifted but methinks its sometime after the games are done... Would love to deal fraser... he's just sitting there... Or dump Orr in the minors atleast
 

Ricky Bobby

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Aug 31, 2008
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There is an olympic trade freeze that starts on the 7th (i think it is) not sure when that is lifted but methinks its sometime after the games are done... Would love to deal fraser... he's just sitting there... Or dump Orr in the minors atleast

I'm aware of the trade freeze.

I just hope some dead weight is traded/waived prior to it. I'd actually expect McLaren to be moved out before Orr.

Plus we should be sending down the AHL eligible players to get some more playing time for them.
 

Morguee

Registered User
Jan 22, 2010
3,002
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I'm aware of the trade freeze.

I just hope some dead weight is traded/waived prior to it. I'd actually expect McLaren to be moved out before Orr.

Plus we should be sending down the AHL eligible players to get some more playing time for them.

There is some kind of rule this year where they had to play in an AHL game some many days before Olympics in order to be sent down. I'm not exactly sure of the exact terms but it was put there to prevent teams from dumping everyone down to save on cap space. Hopefully someone with a little more knowledge will weigh in.
 

KuleminFan41

Registered User
Jan 5, 2009
5,845
614
Yes please.

I have a feeling we may lose Kulemin simply because of Clarkson's contract :help:
No, the Leafs will lose Kulemin because he'll ask for too much money for a 3rd liner. Also, please don't respond with Clarkson either because this isn't about Clarkson, its about not retaining Kulemin

Besides, we will be fine for next season. People seem to forget that we have 1.5m coming off the books for next season, not to mention the cap will increase by 6m. That alone is 7.5m , not including any trades or retaining players we don't need like Fraser and possibly Ranger on D or Raymond, Bodie etc on forward. I think people make a bigger deal out of the cap than it should. Do people really forget that people bashed Nonis calling him stupid that he couldn't get Franson or Kadri and that someone was going to steal them from the Leafs? Look at how that turned out. People need to stop playing arm chair GM too much, just chill out and to see what happens. Complaining about it this early is meaningless
 

Ricky Bobby

Registered User
Aug 31, 2008
8,458
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There is some kind of rule this year where they had to play in an AHL game some many days before Olympics in order to be sent down. I'm not exactly sure of the exact terms but it was put there to prevent teams from dumping everyone down to save on cap space. Hopefully someone with a little more knowledge will weigh in.

I just found an article from Mirtle on the issue with one key point being:

- Why can’t some players play in the AHL? Well the league and the NHLPA negotiated a big, long list of stipulations over which players get an Olympic break and which ones don’t, a string of legalese that’s not included in the CBA. Basically, players who don’t require waivers to be sent down still get the time off if (a) they were on an NHL roster (or injured reserve) for at least 75 per cent of the days between Oct. 1 and Jan. 24, including being in the NHL on Jan. 24 or later or (b) they participated in 16 of the last 20 games before the break.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...-break-works-for-nhl-players/article16548337/

I'm guessing Ashton, Smith, Bodie can be sent down but Holland can't.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
Crazy that people want to give a plug like girardi $5-6m. As if the clarkson contract wasn't bad enough.

If having limited capspace means that we aren't the team that overpays ridiculously for dan girardi, then we should all be very happy we don't have that capspace.
 

selltrade

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Sep 20, 2005
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www.selltradememorabilia.com
Leafs will be fine next year. Play Ashton, D'Amigo, Bodie, Holland etc on the 3rd and 4th lines. NK and Raymond will be gone as both will be too expensive for 3rd line duties. Ideally Orr and McLaren are both gone or at least 1, total waste of cap and roster spots. McClement can go too if he wants too much as a 4th liner. Trevor Smith could fill his spot easily. Also Clarkson is have a off year, the 10 games at the beginning plus the injuries haven't helped, IMO he will be very valuable in the playoffs and next year will be back to a top 6 guy.
 

Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
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We have to view that as a plus knowing this is the team we go into playoffs with. The trade deadline will be the return of Bolland maybe. That's a nice little bonus to look forward to.
 

Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
14,114
5,694
Leafs will be fine next year. Play Ashton, D'Amigo, Bodie, Holland etc on the 3rd and 4th lines. NK and Raymond will be gone as both will be too expensive for 3rd line duties. Ideally Orr and McLaren are both gone or at least 1, total waste of cap and roster spots. McClement can go too if he wants too much as a 4th liner. Trevor Smith could fill his spot easily. Also Clarkson is have a off year, the 10 games at the beginning plus the injuries haven't helped, IMO he will be very valuable in the playoffs and next year will be back to a top 6 guy.

Sam Carrick and Spencer Abbott are coming along nicely also. They get no love here lol. They are doing well with the Marlies as are plenty other Marlies. The development is moving along good with prospects.
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
31,154
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Don't look now, but we are the 4th best team in the Eastern Conference. Pittsburgh (#1) and Montreal (#5) are two of the teams we match up best against in the league. We beat Tampa (#3) last night in our first matchup of the season, and we equal their speed, their greatest advantage. We took a better Boston (#2) team to game 7 OT last year, despite joke reffing and a huge discrepancy in experience.

We're not as far off as the doom-and-gloom crowd like to think, and the Clarkson (as much as I hate it) and Bolland acquisitions are what appears to be for the long term, not a deadline acquisition for just this year.

Buying out Clarkson at this point would be 10X more idiotic than signing him in the first place.

4th in the east baby! LOL. I was wondering when someone would say something like that.

For me personally, it's tough to say how good (or bad) this team is. 4th best team in the east though seems to be jumping the gun.

Firstly, the way the NHL does it's standings is dumb. If we did more logically (like the NBA for example) then we would see that MTL is 4th in the east sitting at 8 points above .500, we are at 7 points above, one team is 2 more points back, 3 teams are one point behind them and another 3 teams are another 1 point behind. Or to put it another way, if we were to lose 2 games to the 12th place team, we would be tied with them. Hardly a comfortable place to be. Have you and everyone else completely forgotten where we were just a few weeks ago?

Another factor is that we were unlucky last year in the crapshoot that is the shootout. This year however, it's the opposite. This means that realistically, we were a bit better last year than the standings showed, and were not as good as the standings show right now. If we had a "normal" record in shootouts we would probably be about tied for 8th. It's highly unlikely that we will keep winning shootouts at the same pace, more realistic is that we will win at an average pace.

I have no idea how this team will perform over the next 5 games, do you? How about the next 10 games?

Rather than "4th in the east" I think a more realistic assessment of our team would be to say that we are in a pack of 9 teams from 4th to 12th separated by a mere 5 points and we could easily finish anywhere in that group at the end of the year.

So you think that it's time to start thinking about how we match up against potential PO opponents huh? And you think that against the top 3 teams in the east we match up well? Really? From where I sit, BOS would be an enormous facourite against us and deservedly so. We match up better against PIT perhaps but don't kid yourself, they also would be a huge favourite against us. And TB ... from what I saw last night, we gave up a zillion 2 on 1 breaks, were outplayed by a good margin and Bernier bailed us out. This has been the formula all year long and it is not a good formula for playoff success. Don't forget that Stamkos will be back when the playoffs roll around - still think we "match up well"? I'm not saying we can't win that series but to say we match up well because of last night is extreme homerism, nothing more. I prefer to wait and see if we even make the playoffs before I start chirping about how well we match up against teams that by any objective measure are better than we are.

The 'team" is greater than it's individual parts. Is Gleason the 2nd coming of Scott Stevens? No, he was a healthy scratch in Carolina.. While you need talent to be a great team, you also need character, maturity and a winning mentality. Gleason brings it. Bolland and Clarkson were brought in for that reason.

The leafs are learning how to win. It is a slow process. It starts with making the playoffs again, and then winning a round. Can Clarkson help us do it? I agree that up to now he hasn't lived up to his contract, and it looks like a bad signing. All I am saying is that it is too early to judge his true value to this team, much like it took Bozak to prove his worth to all you doubters.

So Bozak's performance over 31 games this season proves ... proves what exactly? Does it really prove anything? Are you going on record predicting that he will continue to produce at a 26 pts per 31 games pace for the foreseeable future? Or is it possible that the pace he has been producing at over the last several years is a better indication of we can expect from him going forward?

Don't get me wrong, I love Bozak, he has played well and I hope he keeps it up but it's way early to say that he has proven anything.
 

goonx

Registered User
Nov 7, 2010
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0
Some hfboard logic here is pretty pre-grade school.

Sign a highly coveted UFA and buy him out next year. Imagine the number of UFAs that will sign with the Leafs after.

We paid market price for Clarkson and everyone in the league knew that he could have gone somewhere with more money.

People would be complaining if we didn't sign him and he went on to score 20 goals while playing his "in your face" game.

People are complaining that he's useless. He played less than 50 games for us and ppl are judging that the first year is bad?!

My god. People do understand that long term contracts get better "value" in the later years right? The cap goes up and the % of the cap hit goes down. In 2 seasons, Clarkson contract would look like 3-4 million today.

Inflation people... Inflation.

Anyways, let's let the accountants, MBA, economists and lawyers handle the cap. It's absolutely hilarious that some ppl here think they know more than people who live and breathe numbers and budgets for a living.
 

RhyZa

Registered User
Jul 3, 2006
1,613
2
Some hfboard logic here is pretty pre-grade school.

Sign a highly coveted UFA and buy him out next year. Imagine the number of UFAs that will sign with the Leafs after.

We paid market price for Clarkson and everyone in the league knew that he could have gone somewhere with more money.

People would be complaining if we didn't sign him and he went on to score 20 goals while playing his "in your face" game.

People are complaining that he's useless. He played less than 50 games for us and ppl are judging that the first year is bad?!

My god. People do understand that long term contracts get better "value" in the later years right? The cap goes up and the % of the cap hit goes down. In 2 seasons, Clarkson contract would look like 3-4 million today.

Inflation people... Inflation.

Anyways, let's let the accountants, MBA, economists and lawyers handle the cap. It's absolutely hilarious that some ppl here think they know more than people who live and breathe numbers and budgets for a living.

To think that us peasant fans could never be right and the gods in management never wrong is unbelievably patronizing. GM's make mistakes all the time and fans are right a lot of the time.

Jersey fans laughed at the numbers being thrown around and for good reason. This built for the playoff's and give it another year is a load of crap to me. He might improve but never to live up to that contract.

I don't get how he got the years and the money, even the Rangers have self imposed limits or maybe the Clarkson contract opened their eyes. Nonis has made some great moves but this along with the hasty buyouts was an awful, inexcusable move.
 
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Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
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To think that us peasant fans could never be right and the gods in management never wrong is unbelievably patronizing. GM's make mistakes all the time and fans are right a lot of the time.

Jersey fans laughed at the numbers being thrown around and for good reason. This built for the playoff's and give it another year is a load of crap to me. He might improve but never to live up to that contract.

I don't get how he got the years and the money, even the Rangers have self imposed limits or maybe the Clarkson contract opened their eyes. Nonis has made some great moves but this along with the hasty buyouts was an awful, inexcusable move.

This is the last year for us paying buyouts on the cap. The cap going up and Armstrong and tucker in the last year. That's pretty good shape after this year.
 

Trainspotter

Registered User
May 28, 2013
424
0
You'd almost believe the Upper Limit weren't going to rise significantly this summer when the time will be right to make improvements to the team. The trade deadline is not a time for massive changes to a team not expected to contend, but to add spare parts which won't be difficult at all.

In other words, nothing to see here.
 

getyourselfsomerest

Registered User
Jul 22, 2011
1,133
0
Waive Orr, McLaren, and Fraser and our problems are mostly solved. But if we ever get 100% healthy and nobody's on IR we'll have to run with exactly 12 fwds and 6 Dmen.

We'll be fine next year. Should not be any problems. Improvements will have to come through trades though.
 

I am Canadian

AM34|WN88|MM16
May 22, 2008
6,677
2,825
Toronto
I feel if we didn't sign Clarkson we would have had to pay Kadri + Franson more.

However, Clarkson's contract doesn't sit that great with this team. Much rather have someone from the farm playing in his position. Is Clarkson that much better then guys like Bodie, D'amigo, Leivo, Ashton when you take the extra 4 something million into account?
 

The_Chosen_One

Registered User
Jul 4, 2006
6,285
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Melbourne, Australia
Crazy that people want to give a plug like girardi $5-6m. As if the clarkson contract wasn't bad enough.

If having limited capspace means that we aren't the team that overpays ridiculously for dan girardi, then we should all be very happy we don't have that capspace.
He is not required. If we acqiire him, he too would need a puck mover. Users harp on Franson and Phaneuf, Girardi woukd get roasted alive. That tight-checking, lower tempo game makes Girardi better. Much like Beauchemin, he won't look too good here. I think we need someone more like McDonagh, or just wait for Gardiner/ Rielly develop into a Niedermayer/ Rafalski type defenceman.
 

Delicious Dangles*

Guest
Firstly, the way the NHL does it's standings is dumb. If we did more logically (like the NBA for example) then we would see that MTL is 4th in the east sitting at 8 points above .500, we are at 7 points above, one team is 2 more points back, 3 teams are one point behind them and another 3 teams are another 1 point behind. Or to put it another way, if we were to lose 2 games to the 12th place team, we would be tied with them. Hardly a comfortable place to be. Have you and everyone else completely forgotten where we were just a few weeks ago?
No, I have not forgotten. We were at a low point. We had had to endure 24/7 cameras (which historically hurt a team's performance), the toughest stretch of games this year (and in maybe a decade), and a constant bombardment of injuries/suspensions to the same positions (ie. top-3 centers out).

Every single team in the East has gone through significant periods of looking like total garbage, with the possible exception of Boston, Pittsburgh and Tampa.

I think part of the problem is that people think of the best hockey team as one that executes perfectly at all times (probably due to hockey video games). As in, with a rating system of 1 to 100, with 100 being perfect, the best team is a 100. In reality, the best team is maybe a 70. Or more accurately, somewhere in the range of 50-70 on any given night. Then, a middle of the pack team may be a 40-60 range. And a bad team 30-50.

So when evaluating the Leafs and Leaf players, we should not be comparing them to perfection, but to a top team and it's players, with all their faults and deficiencies.

Not a comfortable position, but right now, we are 4th.

P.S. Montreal's games in hand are against Boston and Tampa.

Another factor is that we were unlucky last year in the crapshoot that is the shootout. This year however, it's the opposite. This means that realistically, we were a bit better last year than the standings showed, and were not as good as the standings show right now. If we had a "normal" record in shootouts we would probably be about tied for 8th. It's highly unlikely that we will keep winning shootouts at the same pace, more realistic is that we will win at an average pace.
I'm sure nobody was telling us we were better than our record last year because of our shootout-suckage. I don't see why our successes in that area should be diminished this year because we have worked on it and improved. We have found a good setup of shootout shooters, which will mean a better winning percentage.

I hate it as much as you, but it's not entirely a crapshoot.

I have no idea how this team will perform over the next 5 games, do you? How about the next 10 games?

Rather than "4th in the east" I think a more realistic assessment of our team would be to say that we are in a pack of 9 teams from 4th to 12th separated by a mere 5 points and we could easily finish anywhere in that group at the end of the year.
I think the most appropriate assessment would be to say the cold hard facts, which is that we are in 4th, and that these standings are subject to change, as they always are when doing mid-season analysis.

So you think that it's time to start thinking about how we match up against potential PO opponents huh? And you think that against the top 3 teams in the east we match up well? Really? From where I sit, BOS would be an enormous facourite against us and deservedly so. We match up better against PIT perhaps but don't kid yourself, they also would be a huge favourite against us. And TB ... from what I saw last night, we gave up a zillion 2 on 1 breaks, were outplayed by a good margin and Bernier bailed us out. This has been the formula all year long and it is not a good formula for playoff success. Don't forget that Stamkos will be back when the playoffs roll around - still think we "match up well"? I'm not saying we can't win that series but to say we match up well because of last night is extreme homerism, nothing more. I prefer to wait and see if we even make the playoffs before I start chirping about how well we match up against teams that by any objective measure are better than we are.
I don't think there's ever anything wrong with thinking about how you match up with potential playoff opponents, because that's what this is all about. Especially now that potential playoff opponents have been narrowed down so much with the new format, you have to match up well to get anywhere.

Who is the "favourite" doesn't matter. The game is played on the ice, and we have the benefit of having our most likely playoff opponents being teams that we match up well against. I think last year shows that we match up against Boston quite well, both in style and abilities. We are one of the few teams that seems to be able to better shut down Crosby and knock him off his game. We have matched up well over the years, especially considering the sheer skill that pittsburgh has. Matching up well against Tampa is not about last night. It is about the style of our teams as well as the results. Both rely on speed, a good PP, elite goaltending, and have done well despite inconsistent defenses, anchored by one rock.

Any time you can make a round against a team above you in the standings more of a toss-up, you are coming out on top.
 

Avec Fromage*

Guest
All the Leafs' players talk about how we're the Yankees of hockey and blah blah blah, but you will never see one of them take a paycut like Crosby, Stamkos, Tavares, Sedins, Keith, Seabrook, Thornton, Marleau, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc. have done for their teams to have success.

That is why we're up against the cap with a middling team.
 

Leafidelity

Existentially Drifting
Apr 6, 2008
38,207
8,525
Downtown Canada
All the Leafs' players talk about how we're the Yankees of hockey and blah blah blah, but you will never see one of them take a paycut like Crosby, Stamkos, Tavares, Sedins, Keith, Seabrook, Thornton, Marleau, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc. have done for their teams to have success.

That is why we're up against the cap with a middling team.

How many Yankees players take pay cuts?
 

Delicious Dangles*

Guest
All the Leafs' players talk about how we're the Yankees of hockey and blah blah blah, but you will never see one of them take a paycut like Crosby, Stamkos, Tavares, Sedins, Keith, Seabrook, Thornton, Marleau, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc. have done for their teams to have success.

That is why we're up against the cap with a middling team.
Except these are players that took paycuts AFTER the team proved they were consistent cup contenders. Additionally, some of these are cap circumvention contracts, some are RFAs, and some look much better in hindsight than they did at the time.

We are not in cap trouble, and most teams are considered middling teams before they win the cup.
 

HockeyGuy82

Registered User
Jan 22, 2011
853
0
Ottawa
I think Clarkson's salary cap will look better if we make the playoffs. But just a little better. Not that much. :laugh: It's more his style of play. We should notice him a lot more.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
1,941
No, I have not forgotten. We were at a low point. We had had to endure 24/7 cameras (which historically hurt a team's performance), the toughest stretch of games this year (and in maybe a decade), and a constant bombardment of injuries/suspensions to the same positions (ie. top-3 centers out).

Every single team in the East has gone through significant periods of looking like total garbage, with the possible exception of Boston, Pittsburgh and Tampa.

I think part of the problem is that people think of the best hockey team as one that executes perfectly at all times (probably due to hockey video games). As in, with a rating system of 1 to 100, with 100 being perfect, the best team is a 100. In reality, the best team is maybe a 70. Or more accurately, somewhere in the range of 50-70 on any given night. Then, a middle of the pack team may be a 40-60 range. And a bad team 30-50.

So when evaluating the Leafs and Leaf players, we should not be comparing them to perfection, but to a top team and it's players, with all their faults and deficiencies.

Not a comfortable position, but right now, we are 4th.

P.S. Montreal's games in hand are against Boston and Tampa.


I'm sure nobody was telling us we were better than our record last year because of our shootout-suckage. I don't see why our successes in that area should be diminished this year because we have worked on it and improved. We have found a good setup of shootout shooters, which will mean a better winning percentage.

I hate it as much as you, but it's not entirely a crapshoot.


I think the most appropriate assessment would be to say the cold hard facts, which is that we are in 4th, and that these standings are subject to change, as they always are when doing mid-season analysis.


I don't think there's ever anything wrong with thinking about how you match up with potential playoff opponents, because that's what this is all about. Especially now that potential playoff opponents have been narrowed down so much with the new format, you have to match up well to get anywhere.

Who is the "favourite" doesn't matter. The game is played on the ice, and we have the benefit of having our most likely playoff opponents being teams that we match up well against. I think last year shows that we match up against Boston quite well, both in style and abilities. We are one of the few teams that seems to be able to better shut down Crosby and knock him off his game. We have matched up well over the years, especially considering the sheer skill that pittsburgh has. Matching up well against Tampa is not about last night. It is about the style of our teams as well as the results. Both rely on speed, a good PP, elite goaltending, and have done well despite inconsistent defenses, anchored by one rock.

Any time you can make a round against a team above you in the standings more of a toss-up, you are coming out on top.

While 4th in the east is a fact, it also can be very misleading given games in hand issues.

Shoot out wins can also be misleading, when debating a teams possible prowess in the POs.

It is true that a win is a win , but fact is, come POs ,2 formats to win a game in the reg season are gone, 4 v 4 and shoot outs.

This consistent issue of being heavily out shot , bad PK, one of the highest times short handed and lowest times on the PP are concerning issues.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
41,986
12,392
While 4th in the east is a fact, it also can be very misleading given games in hand issues.

Shoot out wins can also be misleading, when debating a teams possible prowess in the POs.

It is true that a win is a win , but fact is, come POs ,2 formats to win a game in the reg season are gone, 4 v 4 and shoot outs.

This consistent issue of being heavily out shot , bad PK, one of the highest times short handed and lowest times on the PP are concerning issues.

They are far beyond concerning, they are red flags sirens and alarm bells all at once. We have not seen the final push, this team just does not strike me as having the fortitude to play +500 hockey down the stretch.
 

Kyle Doobas*

Guest
Crazy that people want to give a plug like girardi $5-6m. As if the clarkson contract wasn't bad enough.

If having limited capspace means that we aren't the team that overpays ridiculously for dan girardi, then we should all be very happy we don't have that capspace.
Yeah, I like Girardi, but $5-6M would be a pretty absurd chance for us to take on a guy like that. If it doesn't work out, we're in trouble, especially if Clarkson doesn't have a rebound year.

I'd rather make a couple of lower-key UFA signings like Mike Weaver or Mark Fayne (or both) and move Franson/Fraser out.
 
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