Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign F Jason Dickinson to 3-Year, $7.95M Deal ($2.65M AAV)

[Melvin]

Nah dude. Melvin told me I'm just a sheep in group think purgatory. We are all duped in to believing this is a fair deal.

Make an argument that it's a fair deal. Present some facts.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Arguing over a 4th line center (yes, he's a 4th line center) in August...must be the dog days of summer in Vancouver. lol

For me, it's about $500k-$700k too much...but this is just Benning's MO, he's a soft negotiator...there is nothing in Dickinson's history that would lead one to believe he's a burgeoning 3rd line center...he's a quality 4th line center who will likely be thrust into a 3rd line role, and when he doesn't put up the offensive numbers he'll likely be one of the new whipping boys in town....and I like the guy, but as a 3rd line center I think he'll be underwhelming. No idea why people think this was a "tidy piece of business", it was a soft signing where Benning gave up what was probably a negotiating advantage and gave in to the agent/player to make him feel welcome right off the bat instead of going to arbitration where the team probably would have come away with a better deal...I could see doing that for a top player, not a 4th line depth player....typical Benning.

Any facts to substantiate this absurd post?

 

[Canucker]

Any facts to substantiate this absurd post?

Yes, a ton of them...now run along and find them.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Yes, a ton of them...now run along and find them.

Worst post of the day congrats. And there has been some stiff competition

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Yes, a ton of them...now run along and find them.

You made the claims..onus is on you to substantiate them.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Absolutely.

RFA contracts are basically the NHL GM equivalent of putting your pants on in the morning. They're hard to screw up.

And even when you do screw it up and overpay by 30%, that number still looks reasonable compared to big UFA screw-ups.

Dickinson is better than Beagle and costs less? SOUNDS GOOD TO ME. Ugh.

This is more bad-faith bullshit. You're well aware no one ever said the bolded as if to suggest the dollar value represents a proportional improvement on how shrewdly his contract was negotiated relative to Beagle's, as you're implying. What people have said is that the bottom 6 has been reconstructed to be cheaper, the implication being partly through the addition of players who have less negotiating leverage.

You're clearly convinced of the veracity of your arguments, which is more than can be said for many posters. If that's true, why do you need to do this?

 

[alternate]

Arguing over a 4th line center (yes, he's a 4th line center) in August...must be the dog days of summer in Vancouver. lol

For me, it's about $500k-$700k too much...but this is just Benning's MO, he's a soft negotiator...there is nothing in Dickinson's history that would lead one to believe he's a burgeoning 3rd line center...he's a quality 4th line center who will likely be thrust into a 3rd line role, and when he doesn't put up the offensive numbers he'll likely be one of the new whipping boys in town....and I like the guy, but as a 3rd line center I think he'll be underwhelming. No idea why people think this was a "tidy piece of business", it was a soft signing where Benning gave up what was probably a negotiating advantage and gave in to the agent/player to make him feel welcome right off the bat instead of going to arbitration where the team probably would have come away with a better deal...I could see doing that for a top player, not a 4th line depth player....typical Benning.

I'm not an expert on Dickinson's career to date, but pretty sure he was the 3C for Dallas when they went to the Finals. So not "nothing in Dickinson's history..." but we will see how he does here.

 

[Canucker]

I'm not an expert on Dickinson's career to date, but pretty sure he was the 3C for Dallas when they went to the Finals. So not "nothing in Dickinson's history..." but we will see how he does here.

I think he was closer to their 4th line center, but i think he played up and down the lineup a bit...I think he even played some wing with Benn and Seguin. Regardless, I think he's better suited to a 4th line C role ( I think thats the role he'd have on a contending team)...on this mess maybe he'll fit as a 3rd liner and help contribute to the ensuing mediocrity.

 

[m9]

I do know we saw a ton of "well he was a UFA so you had to to pay extra or give an extra year to get him" to justify some of the past UFA signings. That same thought process should apply here when a guy has no leverage based on being an RFA with no offensive numbers, but I'm not sure we're seeing it.

I do think that this management group (and others in the league, to be fair) are petrified of the arbitration process and that's not a good thing, even in cases like this where the team should have a pretty good case. 2.25 was the number I had in my roster projections on a 3-year deal (2 mil per RFA year, 2.75 per UFA year) so I do think this one was a little high.

Despite all that, I do think the Canucks can come out looking pretty good here if Dickinson is a solid 3C. If he can do that then this price will be just fine and he certainly will get the opportunity. They're just taking on bit more risk here in case he ends up being a 4th line player, which is definitely possible

 

[Canucker]

I do know we saw a ton of "well he was a UFA so you had to to pay extra or give an extra year to get him" to justify some of the past UFA signings. That same thought process should apply here when a guy has no leverage based on being an RFA with no offensive numbers, but I'm not sure we're seeing it.

I do think that this management group (and others in the league, to be fair) are petrified of the arbitration process and that's not a good thing, even in cases like this where the team should have a pretty good case. 2.25 was the number I had in my roster projections on a 3-year deal (2 mil per RFA year, 2.75 per UFA year) so I do think this one was a little high.

Despite all that, I do think the Canucks can come out looking pretty good here if Dickinson is a solid 3C. If he can do that then this price will be just fine and he certainly will get the opportunity. They're just taking on bit more risk here in case he ends up being a 4th line player, which is definitely possible

If he proves he can handle the 3rd line role and not be a black hole offensively, sure....probably a fair deal...but he's over paying on the assumption of success...at some point you have to pay people what they've earned to date, not what you "hope" they can achieve if everything works out the way you want.

 

[JAK]

. 2.25 was the number I had in my roster projections on a 3-year deal (2 mil per RFA year, 2.75 per UFA year) so I do think this one was a little high.

He only has one RFA year left. So $2 + $2.75 X 2 = $7.5 over 3 =$2.5 per which isn't far off your expectations, and honestly with escrow issue, a little bit more isn't the worst thing.

 

[Vector]

Group 3 UFA
This is the most common type of UFA. A player becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent (UFA) if their current contract ends after either 7 Accrued Seasons or they are 27 or older as of June 30.

An Accrued Season is defined as a year in which a skater is on an NHL roster for at least 40 games (30 games for Goalies). If a player is on the NHL team's roster but injured, the team's games count towards the 40 game minimum.

Dickinson was born on Jul 4, 1995. He will not be 27 as of Jun 30, 2022. This contract buys out one UFA year.

 

[m9]

He only has one RFA year left. So $2 + $2.75 X 2 = $7.5 over 3 =$2.5 per which isn't far off your expectations, and honestly with escrow issue, a little bit more isn't the worst thing.

Nope, he has two RFA years. And if you or anyone doesn't know this then your opinion on the contract is worthless because it's a very important part of the calculation.

 

[Melvin]

Group 3 UFA
This is the most common type of UFA. A player becomes an Unrestricted Free Agent (UFA) if their current contract ends after either 7 Accrued Seasons or they are 27 or older as of June 30.

An Accrued Season is defined as a year in which a skater is on an NHL roster for at least 40 games (30 games for Goalies). If a player is on the NHL team's roster but injured, the team's games count towards the 40 game minimum.

Dickinson was born on Jul 4, 1995. He will not be 27 as of Jun 30, 2022. This contract buys out one UFA year.

To be fair, there is at least a chance the Canucks don't know this either.

It's hard for me to imagine him commanding 3.25M as a UFA like he will be paid in 2023-24, but if so this will have likely worked out better than I expect.

This thread should be a fun read in 3 years, either way.

 

[m9]

If he proves he can handle the 3rd line role and not be a black hole offensively, sure....probably a fair deal...but he's over paying on the assumption of success...at some point you have to pay people what they've earned to date, not what you "hope" they can achieve if everything works out the way you want.

Projecting forward to get a discount can be a good thing. The problem is that this management group has been absolutely awful at projecting out more than a year. Their track record on signing or trading for players from other teams to 3+ year deals is amazingly bad. They are very, very bad at figuring out how players can fit in.

That is why my preference this off-season once the trades were made is to do 1-yr deals for Dickinson & Garland. Lets see how they fit in, and if they fit well then pay them what they're worth.

 

[strattonius]

1st line - Seguin, 2nd line Pavelski, 3rd line Faksa....4th line Dickinson. Run along.

There's always injuries and his most common linemates had him on the wing a lot - your little list of centers for Dallas doesn't prove anything.

 

[Canucker]

There's always injuries and his most common linemates had him on the wing a lot - your little list of centers for Dallas doesn't prove anything.

Yes, he was on the wing occasionally...on the 4th line.

 

[Hit the post]

Yes, he was on the wing occasionally...on the 4th line.

Likely at least in part he sucked ass at faceoffs.

 

[Canucker]

You posted a lineup from two seasons ago. That’s a “fact?” I posted his most common linemates and usage. Those are relevant facts. You got owned and don’t know a thing about the player or the Dallas Stars. That’s a fact. Notice I haven’t even offered an opinion on the player? I’m not even defending him I’m just calling you out for posting garbage. But actually bye for now. Wasted too much time educating you. Should probably do some work

I'm not an expert on Dickinson's career to date, but pretty sure he was the 3C for Dallas when they went to the Finals. So not "nothing in Dickinson's history..." but we will see how he does here.

I know its difficult, but try to keep up. We were talking about Dickinson when Dallas went to the finals.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Likely at least in part he sucked ass at faceoffs.

But he didn’t. He won 46 percent of them — i.e, he’d win 11 faceoffs for every 12 he lost. He’s almost exactly average at them.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

You posted a lineup from two seasons ago. That’s a “fact?” I posted his most common linemates and usage. Those are relevant facts. You got owned and don’t know a thing about the player or the Dallas Stars. That’s a fact. Notice I haven’t even offered an opinion on the player? I’m not even defending him I’m just calling you out for posting garbage. But actually bye for now. Wasted too much time educating you. Should probably do some work

Didn't Seguin only play like 3 games this past season?

It would follow that Dickinson (and other players) might see an expanded role if one of the top Cs on the team was out longterm.

 

[Canucker]

But he didn’t. He won 46 percent of them — i.e, he’d win 11 faceoffs for every 12 he lost. He’s almost exactly average at them.

I guess that would make Horvat and Miller almost exactly average too?

 

[MS]

This is more bad-faith bullshit. You're well aware no one ever said the bolded as if to suggest the dollar value represents a proportional improvement on how shrewdly his contract was negotiated relative to Beagle's, as you're implying. What people have said is that the bottom 6 has been reconstructed to be cheaper, the implication being partly through the addition of players who have less negotiating leverage.

You're clearly convinced of the veracity of your arguments, which is more than can be said for many posters. If that's true, why do you need to do this?

It's not bad faith anything.

We literally have media members hyping the improved pay structure on the 3rd/4th line C spots by listing the godawful Sutter/Beagle UFA contracts from last year vs. the new Dickinson/Sutter contracts as a comparison.

Something can be better than something that's absolute shit and still be bad.

 

[Hit the post]

It's not bad faith anything.

We literally have media members hyping the improved pay structure on the 3rd/4th line C spots by listing the godawful Sutter/Beagle UFA contracts from last year vs. the new Dickinson/Sutter contracts as a comparison.

Something can be better than something that's absolute shit and still be bad.

eg., Sutter, even in his present state, is probably better than Loui Eriksson.

 

[Nucker101]

His common linemates in Dallas is exactly why I’m meh on him. He was playing with good players and couldn’t really produce. Not a big fan of having players in the top 9 who suck offensively.