megatron
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Sure best ones do get signed early but Im not interested in the best players, im interested in player per dollar spent.
Confirmed with Link: Canucks sign D Tyler Myers to 5-Year, $30m Deal ($6m AAV)
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
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Myers was 60th in PPP for D-men last year.
Edler was 18th in PPP and thats only 54 games.
Hell, Tim Heed, the guy I mentioned as a cheap replacement was producing at a similar rate to Myers in only 14 minutes a night.
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
No, 6 million is first pairing money. Myers hasn't played on first pairing in ages.
Exactly and if teams are more cautious in free agency a smart player shouldn't risk waiting and seeing the market dry up.
A GM can certainly wait and seek value out of every deal or he can over pay and get the player he really wants. At the end of the day, you need to manage the salary cap and you need players who can play. When the Capitals won the Cup, they had a 37 year old Brooks Orpik making $5.5M AAV. The Blues won this year with Tyler Bozak at $5M AAV.
Right shot right side Dmen capable of logging top 4 minutes is hard to find. On July 1st, the best right shot right side Dman UFA in 2018 was a 32 year old Mike Green. In 2017 it was Shattenkirk then... Cody Franson? In 2016 it was Demers and Roman Polak. This year you have Myers then 33 year old Stralman then... ?
Right now the Dmen available in the 2020 UFA market looks good. But how many guys would be available when July 1st arrive? Tyson Barrie?
Pastor Of Muppetz
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What is the current rate of exchange for a 29 year old second paring D-man in UFA..?
Pastor Of Muppetz
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It seems that the Canucks are finally a destination for UFA's (and probably will be more so as the young core matures)....When you are a middling ,rebuilding team...you cannot be picky..Most players don't want to spend their last good years on a non playoff team....All you have to offer is cash (an overpayment) and term.
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
This again, its a problem when you overpay players, if you pay your second pairing guys as firstliners you have to overpay your first liners. If Myers gets 6 million how Mich should we pay Tanev who is a better player?
The problem with overpaying non-elite player like Myers, Sutter, Eriksson, Gudbransson, Beagle is that you cant aquire good players.
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
This is a stupid argument, you shouldnt overpay players full stop. Myers isnt some sort of elite player. This is the Beagle argument again, this is how you rum inte captrouble,.
Also the Canucks during Gillis signed 2 top 4 d-men in FA, and a top 6 forward. Its not like we are some sort of great destination for UFA:s now that we serent before
Over the last 2 seasons Tyler Myers has been a top 10 dman in the NHL in terms of PP points/minute.
If Edler played in Winnipeg he would have been their 4th best option from the backend. Adjust his production down accordingly.
Myers should be the Canucks 1st or 2nd option on the 1st unit PP, depending on what Quinn Hughes can accomplish as a rookie.
Pavel96
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But but but Erikksonn's contract looked good when they signed it. He wa wa wa was coming off a 30 goal season. No no no one could have seen this happening!
How oddly specific. I did some additional analysis.
If you use this stat on just last year's figures (with a PP TOI > 50) then Myers is ranked at 29. Edler ranks at 16.
If you use this stat on the last three years (with a PP TOI > 200) then Myers is ranked at 15. Edler ranks 38.
If you disregard a minimum PP TOI Quinton Hughes comes out 1st in all three scenarios (2 PPP in 6.4 mins of PP TOI).
Even though there are the best players around the top in all three analysis (1 year, 2 year cumulative, 3 year cumulative) there are some interesting inclusions:
- In the 3 year cumulative analysis in the top ten you get Brad Hunt at number 4 and Tony DeAngelo at number 9.
- In the 2 year cumulative analysis Brad Hunt would be ahead of Tyler Myers if the PP TOI was >200 instead of >250 (Myers has 260 PP TOI vs 210 PP TOI for Hunt).
- In the 1 year analysis Poink is at number 6 and Matheson is number 11.
How many different ways did you play with the data to settle on this one?
Pastor Of Muppetz
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Its not an argument...its an observation...look at the contracts of Karlsson,Hayes,Skinner..In UFA, you generally get above and beyond your realistic worth (but you already knew that)...If you thought Myers could be had for a cost controlled $5M per year in UFA.. dream on.
When your team is a SC contender,..your team becomes a destination, you can attract UFA's...or in the case of Dan Hamhuis, he wanted to come home,and play on a good team (basically fell into Gillis' lap).
Bojack Horvatman
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$6M is market value I would say( even if I think UFA contracts are stupidly overpriced). He was never going to get a 7 year, 7-8 AAV contract. Michael Ferland wanted a contract like Tom Wilson. He signed for considerably less because no team would offer him that. A GM does not get credit for negotiating down a player's asking price if they were one of/the highest bidder.
Oddly specific to look at Myers PP production over a 2 year period in a discussion about his PP effectiveness?
A 2-3 year sample size is the ideal time frame to look at if you're trying to project player performance going forward. 1 year is a shallow body of work, while going back 4-5 years isn't all that relevant, especially for a guy going into his 30's.
So looking at a 2-3 year sample, Tyler Myers has been exceptionally productive on the PP. You couldn't really 'play with the data' any less than this when assessing his effectiveness on the PP...
People want to see Tyler Myers take away significant PP time away from Alex Edler.
Pip
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Personally I don’t really care between Myers and Edler. Neither are long term go-to powerplay defensemen.
megatron
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Yes, that is why its better not to sign these guys on day 1 and wait for value towards to the end. If you over pay for a UFA you screw up your salary cap structure.
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
If Myers wants more than 5 million you Dont sign him. Just because other people overpay doesnt make it OK for you to do it.
Yes its easier to get UFA:s when you are a good team, but overpaying for mediocre players is a reason why you never becomes good.
As always your argument is BS, its not OK to do stupid stuff just because other people do it.
It's hilarious how the argument in defence of benning is exactly the same as back in 2016 when the GMs were going full Pejorative Slur with all those UFAs.
People called the eriksson signing an overpayment right from the moment it was announced. The benning defence squad came in with their pathetic arguments, "that's the market!!" "player x signed for 6mil too!!"
We all know how that turned out.
Pastor Of Muppetz
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So don’t sign any UFA’s until you are a good team..?..it doesn’t work that way..You’re not going to get exactly what you want through the draft or trade..
Btw..knock it off with the attitude.
Askel
By the way Benning should be fired.
NO what Im saying is dont overpay mediocre players. That is not a good way to build a team. Its not hard understand, you spemd money on good players, not on third liners and no 4 dmen
Pastor Of Muppetz
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Ok..what I’m saying is that by definition.. UFA = overpayment.
How many top 4 D were available?..I know one of them got $11M and the (who’s on his last legs) got $5.5m
Is Myers mediocre?..I’ll hold off on that until I see him with our D core.
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