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[Jerry the great]

From the Suter interview prior to the TDL, talks were dead. (6:20 min mark)

8:30 in

 

[IComeInPeace]

In his 2 seasons preceding the breakout 40 goal campaign last year Brock way underperformed his contract in 2021-22 (46 points in 71 games at $5.875 million) and again the next season (18 goals and 55 points in 72 games at $6.65 million)…

His only season of playing up to the value of his contract (aside from his rookie contract) was last season when he was playing alongside a possessed JTM who was playing the best hockey of his career.

Good player. Great guy. But, he’s never going to play up to a 7-8 million/season deal considering you get could get someone like Debrusk and give him those prime opportunities for much cheaper.

I love Brock. But there is no way a team is not going to regret the contract they sign him to in as soon as 2-3 seasons if the rumors of what he was already offered are true.

That offer might have made sense with him here alongside JTM because they fit so well together, but now, unless he’s willing to take some type of unheard of discount, it’s time to move on.

 

[Bobby9]

Jared McCann is such a no brainer.

28 so he fits the cores age. Plays wing and centre.

Has term left at 5M per season.

Seattle is selling.

Perfect second line support to add much needed depth to the top 6.

Won’t cost a lot to get. Prob our 1st and a B prospect.

McCann - Chytil - Lekk/Sherwood is a great second line.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Brock is undoubtedly a class guy, but I don't think Alvin's comments were out of line. It's business, and most pros get that.

If it's a business, then conduct business. Get the player re-signed or trade him.

Toffoli got traded for less than expected a few years back:

• 2024-Mar-08 Traded from New Jersey Devils to Winnipeg Jets for round 3 pick in the 2024 draft (Herman Traff) and round 2 pick in the 2025 draft

They're similar players. If that's not good enough, and he's worth more to the team than in trade, re-sign him.

If his number is too high, then it's likely to stay high given an even weaker negotiating position for the team. Same applies for Suter. Trade them for players that still help the team for the playoffs.

What they did is fail on all managerial fronts, including PR. So much so, that the media is all talking about ownership interference and the 2016 TDL.

Steve Werier, former Panthers AGM, called out Allvin's statement for potentially sewering Boeser's future earning potential in FA.

And people are saying Allvin did the right thing by criticizing the ever classy Boeser?

The emperor has no clothes.

 

[Bleach Clean]

8:30 in

I've seen this. Allvin has changed his position.

2 days before, negotiations were dead for both players. Hours before the TDL, Allvin reengaged the Boeser camp and made that statement about Suter after its conclusion.

 

[bossram]

Hilarious. Accountability comes in the form of action - not just words.

I personally don't care if Boeser says he needs to play better. Takes zero effort to say that. Playing better is the best way to be accountable and he hasn't done that all year. He's been horrible since Miller left - like one or two even strength points since then. In addition to playing like crap all year - he has ridiculous contract demands and seemingly won't budge or negotiate.

Management has taken on accountability by moving on from there mistakes quickly. Moving on from Heinen, and Desharnais despite signing them to two year deals each is actually what accountability looks like - admitting they made mistakes and correcting them as soon as possible. We saw that with Kuzmenko and Mikheyev last year as well.

If you think Boeser coming out saying he needs to play better, but continually playing like crap is accountability - I want to live in the world you live in.

Accountability is through actions. Not words. If Boeser is actually accountable - play better. Work harder. Put in the work. Be the first one to practice and last to leave. Throw a hit. Show some emotion. Come down from your ridiculous contract demands and give a hometown discount. That would be real accountability.

Man the players are babied so hard on this forum.

FYI: I like the management team but ok if they moved on when their contracts expire to clean house. Think they have been a B/B+ so far but not an A or A- level. Threading the needle after Benning put this team in a horrible position is an extremely difficult task to perform. Overall they've been solid.

LMAO, what "actions" has management really taken? Screwing things up and then desperately trying to fix them with half-measures later? Accountable!

They built this team. They still somehow deny that the team's performance has any reflection on them. It's pathetic.

But obviously you're the kind of person who believes that the buck stops with everyone else beneath them.

You also keep referencing these "ridiculous contract demands". What are they? What is the contract he wants? Give us the AAV and term please. Can you credibly provide that?

 

[bossram]

How have they jerked him around?

I think Alvin probably just answered a question honestly. Is it surprising that he wasn’t coveted by any of the big spenders at the deadline? Based on last year’s numbers maybe a little, but considering how this season has gone, particularly since Miller’s departure….. not at all.

They questioned his consistency last summer when the media started asking about an extension. his play this year -and three of the last four really- has completely justified their concerns IMO.

I don’t think he’s been jerked around at all. He’s been fairly compensated and given every opportunity to max production. Not sure why he should be get a raise (% of cap) at all, but the team offered him one on a 5 year deal, which is more than fair IMO.

We’ll see where it goes, but if he doesn’t pick up the pace down the stretch, he might have Klingberged himself. 2G 3A dash 9 in 12GP since Millers departure is not a great look.

At every opportunity they just make it clear they don't want Boeser around and think he's not that good of a player.

It's part of the business to not re-sign him. Completely fair. But a consistent theme of this management group is that they are often the ones adding fuel to the media circuses and putting the players in difficult situations where they have to answer not only for their play, but for whatever BS is spewing out of management's mouth that day.

 

[Hodgy]

"Ignores the fact that Boeser was really bad a few years ago without any concussion"

Only if your reading comprehension, or desire for a good faith conversation, fails you when seeing the words "finally turned a corner" and "back to the Boeser we saw for years"

The reference to ignoring his earlier play was in the context of analyzing whether or not his poor play now was a result of a concussion or not. It wasn’t to suggest that you totally ignored this earlier play.

 

[rypper]

cozens pumping

 

[Bleach Clean]

This off-season, the objective has to be to hoard middle6 centres. Re-sign Suter at an inflated number, and sign one of Dvorak/Appleton/Geekie etc...

This positions the team to be able to trade centres for centres. Much like Coyle going for Mittlesdtadt or Cozens/Norris.

 

[Deeds26]

Edit: Probably so Silovs can start tonight in Abby and get some game action in.

 

[StickShift]

This off-season, the objective has to be to hoard middle6 centres. Re-sign Suter at an inflated number, and sign one of Dvorak/Appleton/Geekie etc...

This positions the team to be able to trade centres for centres. Much like Coyle going for Mittlesdtadt or Cozens/Norris.

Reality is that they need a center in particular like JT Miller to go up against the McDavids, Eichels, and MacKinnons of the conference. None of those centers are who you think of in that regard.

If he makes it to free agency—I wonder if they will try to over-pay Bennett to come back to Canada. He fit's their on-ice needs very well.

But, I'm not a huge fan of Bennett in the context of Vancouver's off-ice challenges. I feel like he flourished once he was out of the Canadian spotlight. I don't think playing in Vancouver would do him any favors especially if its under the expectations of a big contract and even more so when he's been a career 40-50 point player. It feels like a recipe for scrutiny and ultimately disaster.

I can also see him very easily signing a sweetheart tax-free deal to stay with the Panthers where he knows his niche.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

At every opportunity they just make it clear they don't want Boeser around and think he's not that good of a player.

It's part of the business to not re-sign him. Completely fair. But a consistent theme of this management group is that they are often the ones adding fuel to the media circuses and putting the players in difficult situations where they have to answer not only for their play, but for whatever BS is spewing out of management's mouth that day.

Part of Allvin's presser,

"Patrick did the deadline make you re-think about how you create a market for your players?"

A: "You guys do that well enough" grins.

I agree that they let the players speak for themselves, but if you can't answer tough questions, that's on the player.

If you want to get angry, ask yourself why our local media whenever a half-competent management is running things, have ZERO scoops? Why would that be?

Media have a vested interest in finding circuses and advertising the circus to the entire league and we wonder why the term "distressed asset" is used so frequently here? And local media wonders why they are treated so frosty?

 

[mriswith]

The reference to ignoring his earlier play was in the context of analyzing whether or not his poor play now was a result of a concussion or not. It wasn’t to suggest that you totally ignored this earlier play.

You were wrong since I mentioned it twice and any attempt of equivocating now is bad faith, which I expect from you.

 

[Hodgy]

You were wrong since I mentioned it twice and any attempt of equivocating now is bad faith, which I expect from you.

It’s not bad faith, but perhaps I am misunderstanding you.

Was your point not that you were frustrated that the injury derailed Boeser’s good play (I.e., the injury was a cause of his current poor play)?

 

[sting101]

Re Boeser: All he has to do is go to free agency and see what the offers are....the notion that anyone sewered his earnings more than he is currently doing is odd.

It didn't matter that much for Lindholm (his play) but he also plays a premium position and has shut down PK utility.

 

[Jerry the great]

At every opportunity they just make it clear they don't want Boeser around and think he's not that good of a player.

It's part of the business to not re-sign him. Completely fair. But a consistent theme of this management group is that they are often the ones adding fuel to the media circuses and putting the players in difficult situations where they have to answer not only for their play, but for whatever BS is spewing out of management's mouth that day.

How does any of this equate to "jerking him around"? despite being fed prime minutes with elite surrounding talent, he's underperformed his contract in 3 of the last 4 years and rode JT's coattails massively in the year he didn't underperform....all of which negatively impacted his market value. At a certain point players have to be accountable for their play and sometimes that happens in public.

 

[mriswith]

It’s not bad faith, but perhaps I am misunderstanding you.

Was your point not that you were frustrated that the injury derailed Boeser’s good play (I.e., the injury was a cause of his current poor play)?

There's no equivocating that "ignores the fact that Boeser was really bad a couple years ago as well without concussion" is somehow different from "finally turned a corner" and "back to the Boeser we saw for years before last". There's no ambiguity to misunderstand.

 

[credulous]

it's going to be an interesting summer. post trade deadline teams are projected to have $743M in cap space but there's only $447M in expiring salaries across 228 players (ufas and rfas) currently on nhl rosters. there's going to be so much money chasing so few players

the top ufas is looking pretty anemic also. there's very few "prime aged" forwards on the market. it's basically marner and then a bunch of unexciting players including ehlers, boeser, bennett, mangiapane, iafallo, drouin and roslovic. there's some older guys who will probably get big contracts like tavares, marchand, benn, nelson, gourde, hall and kane but there's not much past that unless you think skinner or kuzmenko are going to get paid

defense is a little better with gavrikov, ekblad, provorov, orlov, pionk and chychrun but even then the pool is really shallow

 

[mriswith]

it's going to be an interesting summer. post trade deadline teams are projected to have $743M in cap space but there's only $447M in expiring salaries across 228 players (ufas and rfas) currently on nhl rosters. there's going to be so much money chasing so few players

the top ufas is looking pretty anemic also. there's very few "prime aged" forwards on the market. it's basically marner and then a bunch of unexciting players including ehlers, boeser, bennett, mangiapane, iafallo, drouin and roslovic. there's some older guys who will probably get big contracts like tavares, marchand, benn, nelson, gourde, hall and kane but there's not much past that unless you think skinner or kuzmenko are going to get paid

defense is a little better with gavrikov, ekblad, provorov, orlov, pionk and chychrun but even then the pool is really shallow

I was talking about this earlier, it's understated right now much of an effect the projected cap increases coming are going to have. 30% increase in three years is nuts. Like with Boeser we'd probably all keep him if he'd sign for 6 mil and in 2-3 years an 8 mil deal is 6 mil in todays money.

If it actually goes up as projected it's going to have just as much of a distortionary effect on the market as several years of flat cap did, just in the polar opposite direction as every team that wants to contend is going to find themselves with way more cap space than there are effective players and there's going to be a lot of bad contracts to mid players as teams try to fill out.

Flat cap had a lot of shock transactions in it and we're in for the same in the total opposite direction, assuming the global trade wars don't end up dramatically decreasing the cap projections.

 

[Hodgy]

There's no equivocating that "ignores the fact that Boeser was really bad a couple years ago as well without concussion" is somehow different from "finally turned a corner" and "back to the Boeser we saw for years before last". There's no ambiguity to misunderstand.

My point wasn’t that you literally just ignored that he was playing bad before he played better. Obviously everyone knows he played poorly two years ago. My point was that your analysis of why he is now playing poorly ignored that.

Because his concussion wasn’t the only thing that happened around when he stopped playing well. Miller also became a bozo, was forced on a LOA, and never played as well as he had after that.

So there’s a reasonable chance that it was the concussion that resulted in his poor play, but instead, not playing with an elite top line centre that was driving the results.

Or perhaps it’s a mix?

Edit: And I’m fine admitting to misunderstanding you if that was the case. That’s why I asked you to clarify your position.

 

[credulous]

I was talking about this earlier, it's understated right now much of an effect the projected cap increases coming are going to have. 30% increase in three years is nuts. Like with Boeser we'd probably all keep him if he'd sign for 6 mil and in 2-3 years an 8 mil deal is 6 mil in todays money.

If it actually goes up as projected it's going to have just as much of a distortionary effect on the market as several years of flat cap did, just in the polar opposite direction as every team that wants to contend is going to find themselves with way more cap space than there are effective players and there's going to be a lot of bad contracts to mid players as teams try to fill out.

Flat cap had a lot of shock transactions in it and we're in for the same in the total opposite direction, assuming the global trade wars don't end up dramatically decreasing the cap projections.

yeah i think teams are going to really struggle to even use all their cap space. only 6 teams have less cap space than vancouver as it stands. there's only really a handful of players worth big money contracts on the market so where is all that money going to go? i don't think teams are gonna suddenly start offering $8m contracts to players who would have been lucky to get $3m in the last few years. cap space is going to be worth next to nothing going forward

 

[Jay26]

Just checked in on what the Canucks did at the deadline and saw they did absolutely nothing except trade Soucy.

I mean, my interest in this team is just evaporating. There's absolutely nothing to cling to. At least during the Benning years I clung to the future when we had Bowser, Pettersson and Hughes as core prospects/young players. Well we know the fate of that core now. And management seems content spinning their wheels...

I'm getting too old for this, man. If this is how it's going to be then whatever. I have a lot of other things I'm interested in.

 

[Hodgy]

yeah i think teams are going to really struggle to even use all their cap space. only 6 teams have less cap space than vancouver as it stands. there's only really a handful of players worth big money contracts on the market so where is all that money going to go? i don't think teams are gonna suddenly start offering $8m contracts to players who would have been lucky to get $3m in the last few years. cap space is going to be worth next to nothing going forward

This is why I’m so skeptic of this management team trying to solve their problems through free agency.

 

[sting101]

Boeser at 8 million in 3yrs is the same as Boeser today at 6.23 give the cap projections