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[Jerry the great]

I’m not surprised Boeser didn’t carry much value. The only players that pulled premium assets were worth more. Laughton and Carlo play premium positions and had extra years bought down to cheap levels through retention. Rantanen and Marchand are on a different level. Nelson was the top centre available, which always carries a premium.

I’m mostly surprised Suter and Forbort couldn’t be moved for a good haul. Suter is better than some of the depth guys who moved for a second and he plays centre. I like Forbort more than some of the depth defenders who moved for second/third round picks. But I’m also not sure those picks will be as useful as they have in years past to improve the team in the offseason, so it may not be much lost.

Alvin did say that Suters camp had indicated a desire to sign an extension, so maybe they’re still trying to get something done.

Don’t think they were ever going to trade Forbort once they’d moved Soucy.

 

[Hodgy]

The most frustrating thing about the Boeser situation is it looked like he'd finally turned a corner until the concussion. He was awesome last year, then he was our best forward in the playoffs, and he was awesome again to start the season looking like he'd picked right back up where he left off last year. Then post concussion it's back to the Boeser we saw for years before last.

The cap uncertainty is also not fully appreciated yet.

If the cap really rises as much as it is supposed to, there is going to be 2-3 years where a lot really stupid contracts are signed as teams try to fill out the roster without enough available talent and pretty much any contract considered semi-reasonable now will look really good in a couple years.

On the other hand, if a certain world leader's global trade war continues for a few years then the cap will not rise like it's supposed to and any team that banked on it will get skewered much like Toronto did banking on the cap going up before covid hit.

This analysis ignores the fact that Boeser was really bad a couple of years ago as well, without any concussion. So the idea that his play dipped because of the concussion seems dubious.

I think it’s more likely his play dipped because Miller drove the offense on that line and was traded, and this is exactly what Tochett said as well.

And when you zoom out and look at Boeser’s career here, last year and the start to this season, looks more like an outlier than a true indication of Boeser’s play. He’s closer to the 25-30 goal player than the 40 goal player he was last year.

 

[Hodgy]

Alvin did say that Suters camp had indicated a desire to sign an extension, so maybe they’re still trying to get something done.

Don’t think they were ever going to trade Forbort once they’d moved Soucy.

Forbort seems like the kind of guy you could extend for a reasonable price.

 

[pitseleh]

Alvin did say that Suters camp had indicated a desire to sign an extension, so maybe they’re still trying to get something done.

Don’t think they were ever going to trade Forbort once they’d moved Soucy.

Oh I missed that. It sounded like they were far apart but I’d keep him around if you can get him at a reasonable price.

And fair enough on Forbort.

 

[Jerry the great]

Forbort seems like the kind of guy you could extend for a reasonable price.

I don't think keeping Forbort is a bad idea if he's okay not being an everyday player. I think they'll evaluate EP25 down the stretch and in the post season - if we get there- he may be ready for full time 3rd pair duty next season (including PK).

 

[arttk]

maybe he should been a buyer if wingers are that cheap

We are not in the position to get rentals

 

[iceburg]

I like Suter but if you take tomorrows projected forward group and replace him with a 2C, I actually think the group looks pretty good. They probably have $13M to spend on forwards. They may have to reallocate some of that to Centre from a Boeser replacement. Sign a $5M winger, let Boeser walk, and have $8M for centre.

Joshua-EP40-Garland
DeBrusk-[new guy]-Boeser
O’Connor-Chytil-Lekkerimaki
Hoglander-Blueger-Sherwood

Edit: forgot to add that the assumption is that we see a rejuvinated EP40

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

I like Suter but if you take tomorrows projected forward group and replace him with a 2C, I actually think the group looks pretty good. They probably have $13M to spend on forwards. They may have to reallocate some of that to Centre from a Boeser replacement. Sign a $5M winger, let Boeser walk, and have $8M for centre.

Joshua-EP40-Garland
DeBrusk-[new guy]-Boeser
O’Connor-Chytil-Lekkerimaki
Hoglander-Blueger-Sherwood

Edit: forgot to add that the assumption is that we see a rejuvinated EP40

Sam Bennet....??

 

[rypper]

I would 100% re-sign Forbort. We've got younger options on the way but there's always a chance they come into next season needing more time or are in a situation where they're better suited to play a little, take a game off reset etc.

 

[Jerry the great]

I think the surprise comes from Boeser's fall from grace over the past season. 2 seasons ago at this time he was a net negative asset so perhaps this shouldn't be much of a shocker.

With the team sitting on the verge of a playoff spot, it was a situation where you trade all of your upcoming FA's, or none of them. If you trade Forbort and Suter, you may get two late 2nds, but is that really worth mailing in the season?

My biggest issue is not that the team stood pat - it is a totally reasonable position and a lot hinges on Hughes' health. It's that they were unable to figure this out over a week ago, made obvious attempts to trade these players at the last minute, then threw their hands up and shit talked the players they were trying to trade and who they are hoping will power them to the post-season. Their actions were inept and well below the standards of basic professionalism.

Alvin specifically mention advising Boeser’s agent pre TDL that based on how the market was shaping up, there was a good chance he was still going to be on the team post deadline. He was blunt when asked about his inability to move him for a reasonable return, but I don’t think there was any shit talking. Sometimes the truth hurts.

 

[iceburg]

Sam Bennet....??

Love Bennet. He would be a good addition.
That said, I was thinking more of a 60-70 point guy. Bennet is around 40-50 but with a ton of grit.

 

[arttk]

I


Allvin's pep talk "you aren't worth suppoting in the playoff drive and none of you are worth shit in a trade so we didn't bother to trade you. Now go get out there and win!"

I think it’s more for Brock

 

[B-rock]

This analysis ignores the fact that Boeser was really bad a couple of years ago as well, without any concussion. So the idea that his play dipped because of the concussion seems dubious.

I think it’s more likely his play dipped because Miller drove the offense on that line and was traded, and this is exactly what Tochett said as well.

And when you zoom out and look at Boeser’s career here, last year and the start to this season, looks more like an outlier than a true indication of Boeser’s play. He’s closer to the 25-30 goal player than the 40 goal player he was last year.

I think the concussion likely rattled his confidence. Takes time to rebuild from that.
I think he deserves more credit for the player he was last year and through the playoffs though. He was making things happen on his own. It wasn’t just JT. Was like the Boeser that broke onto the team his first couple years but with some grit included.

Admittedly this year he’s back to a shadow of that former player and is playing more as a beneficiary of whatever’s happening on his line as opposed to the guy responsible for driving it. I think he had turned a corner only for the concussion to send him back to meh Boeser.

 

[Jerry the great]

Love Bennet. He would be a good addition.
That said, I was thinking more of a 60-70 point guy. Bennet is around 40-50 but with a ton of grit.

There is no such player headed to free agency, so if they think there's a hole at 2C they're going to have fill it via trade (good luck with that).

 

[Orr4Norris]

This analysis ignores the fact that Boeser was really bad a couple of years ago as well, without any concussion. So the idea that his play dipped because of the concussion seems dubious.

I think it’s more likely his play dipped because Miller drove the offense on that line and was traded, and this is exactly what Tochett said as well.

And when you zoom out and look at Boeser’s career here, last year and the start to this season, looks more like an outlier than a true indication of Boeser’s play. He’s closer to the 25-30 goal player than the 40 goal player he was last year.

Brock has always been a complimentary piece on a top line. He’s an excellent passer and finisher. If you expect him to be a play driver, you’ll be disappointed.

So yes, if you don’t have a top line to play him on, then he’s not going to be very effective. But that doesn’t mean he’s not an important piece. Scoring goals is hard. Finishing is hard (ask Mikheyev lol).

 

[valkynax]

It is a good thing that our TDL shopping was done earlier, which means while my faith in the current regime has taken a major hit, I am far from giving up on them.

Well, what's done is done. The players need to do their job now, especially those who's been under performing.

 

[sensodyne17]

Do you think that nasty concussion he had earlier MIGHT have something to do with his struggles?

11 points in 12 games before, 17 in 43 since.

Perhaps, I'm not Boeser so I can't answer that for you.

If he was still feeling the effects of the concussion, then he should do the right thing and take time off to get right instead of playing at 50% out there.

But like, let's operate in reality instead of more conspiracy theories.

Boeser, outside of last year, has been more or less a complimentary second line forward that is going to score 25-30 goals, and 55-60 points dating back to 2022. His current pace reflects that.

11 points in 12 games may have just been a hot streak. I recall he played well and was productive but he wasn't necessarily taking games over or play driving.

None of us are Boeser, none of us are in the medical team, none of us are in the locker room. There's no point in speculating... we can only form opinions based off the reality we perceive - it's not looking so good for the Flow.

 

[thecupismine]

I think the surprise comes from Boeser's fall from grace over the past season. 2 seasons ago at this time he was a net negative asset so perhaps this shouldn't be much of a shocker.

With the team sitting on the verge of a playoff spot, it was a situation where you trade all of your upcoming FA's, or none of them. If you trade Forbort and Suter, you may get two late 2nds, but is that really worth mailing in the season?

My biggest issue is not that the team stood pat - it is a totally reasonable position and a lot hinges on Hughes' health. It's that they were unable to figure this out over a week ago, made obvious attempts to trade these players at the last minute, then threw their hands up and shit talked the players they were trying to trade and who they are hoping will power them to the post-season. Their actions were inept and well below the standards of basic professionalism.

Completely fair take. The PR this season has been mediocre at best (and often just confusing & piss-poor). Sometimes its just better to lie and say we're keeping these guys to power us to the playoffs, even if you were exploring avenues to trade them.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Oh I missed that. It sounded like they were far apart but I’d keep him around if you can get him at a reasonable price.

And fair enough on Forbort.

From the Suter interview prior to the TDL, talks were dead. (6:20 min mark)

 

[andora]

Dont understand the cozens pumping that went on forever blech

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

No offence but why are people spamming the thread. And they keep iterating the same thing.

 

[andora]

No offence but why are people spamming the thread. And they keep iterating the same thing.

Brock

 

[mriswith]

This analysis ignores the fact that Boeser was really bad a couple of years ago as well, without any concussion. So the idea that his play dipped because of the concussion seems dubious.

I think it’s more likely his play dipped because Miller drove the offense on that line and was traded, and this is exactly what Tochett said as well.

And when you zoom out and look at Boeser’s career here, last year and the start to this season, looks more like an outlier than a true indication of Boeser’s play. He’s closer to the 25-30 goal player than the 40 goal player he was last year.

"Ignores the fact that Boeser was really bad a few years ago without any concussion"

Only if your reading comprehension, or desire for a good faith conversation, fails you when seeing the words "finally turned a corner" and "back to the Boeser we saw for years"

I think the concussion likely rattled his confidence. Takes time to rebuild from that.
I think he deserves more credit for the player he was last year and through the playoffs though. He was making things happen on his own. It wasn’t just JT. Was like the Boeser that broke onto the team his first couple years but with some grit included.

Admittedly this year he’s back to a shadow of that former player and is playing more as a beneficiary of whatever’s happening on his line as opposed to the guy responsible for driving it. I think he had turned a corner only for the concussion to send him back to meh Boeser.

I think the difference between good Boeser and bad Boeser is about a half step's worth of speed in his acceleration and the time out from the concussion took that half step away, and all those years that he wasn't great was mostly a conditioning problem.

That's a huge concern for committing to him into his mid 30s so I don't blame mgmt at all for not wanting to commit max term to the player. It's probably the right choice and only the cap projections in the next few years make me doubt that assessment. That's why the concussion was a rug pull of sorts - not either parties fault but it'd be a lot easier to commit to him if we'd been able to see whether he could maintain his last seasons form through this year without any intervening events.

 

[B-rock]

"Ignores the fact that Boeser was really bad a few years ago without any concussion"

Only if your reading comprehension, or desire for a good faith conversation, fails you when seeing the words "finally turned a corner" and "back to the Boeser we saw for years"

lol, a little edgy!
I was responding to his claim that “the idea that his play dipped because of the concussion seems dubious.”

 

[mriswith]

lol, a little edgy!
I was responding to his claim that “the idea that his play dipped because of the concussion seems dubious.”

Oh I wasn't directing that comment at you. That comment was to Hodgy, who has a history of doing exactly what he just did there in back and forths with me and I'm over it.

I agree with you completely, I just wanted to add that the lost half step in particular is really noticeable pre and post concussion.