Canucks News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Playoffs Approaching

[SeawaterOnIce]

Saw some doctors reviewing the tape speculating some sort of hamstring thing.

This play. He kneels after the save and reaches for his hamstring with his glove hand.

 

[TruGr1t]

This play. He kneels after the save and reaches for his hamstring with his glove hand.

Welp, guess it is knee:

 

[JT Milker]

Inb4 Seravalli reports it’s an ACL tear and everyone jumps down his throat.

 

[theguardianII]

Pettersson is 25 but will turn 26 next season (11/12/98)
Miller will be 31 in three days
Demko just turned 28 in December
Boeser turned 27 in February

Outside of Miller our core are all in their mid to late twenties, which is the ideal age for a decently long window. Demko being the oldest (outside Miller) benefits us because goalies usually have a longer shelf life. Even if he does falter, goaltender is generally an easier position to fix.

I'm also a lot less concerned about Miller than I would be say Kesler. While a physical player, JT doesn't actually use his body nearly to the same extent players of his style do. Which very likely will help in his longevity. He may not be putting up 100 points in three years but we don't need him to. If he's putting up Tavares numbers, we're fine.

The whole point of getting guys like Lekkerimaki and Willander on the roster is to, hopefully, have another surprise akin to Joshua or Juulsen where you're not expecting much and they exceeding said expectation. That way we can ride out the OEL buyout.

Kane, Toews, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Kucherov, McKinnon, all under 25 yrs old winning the cup.
No old teams win the cup on AVERAGE.

Miller will not have Marner to play with, Nylander to play with, Mathews to play with. Apples and Oranges.

Saw some doctors reviewing the tape speculating some sort of hamstring thing.

Anterior Cruciate ligament. a Tear hurts like the blazes a detach hardly hurts at all, unless moving but numbs up pretty quick.
Medial Cruciate tears

Both can be played through but not at 100%
6 to 8 weeks recovery IF micro surgery needed

I had the Steve Brobroski knee injury, ALL detached or 6 of 8. Could still get up with help. Went home, got the crutches, went back to the game, had a couple of beers, just my foot would rotate 270 degrees and then hurt a lot. Went to hospital, examined, emergency surgery. 16 to 20 weeks to full recovery but was able to play a little baseball with G2 knee braces.
Spent a lot of time learning about knees, operations, injuries, recovery times (you really don't want to know how they figure out how strong with time the ligaments are) etc.

Hips, similar. Often stated as Groin, sports hernia, stomach muscles, "lower body", knee, the word "hip" is sort of like the word "rebuild". Just not like to be mentioned.

 

[theguardianII]

This should be a big red flag.

Why can't folks read between the lines.

"We have no idea what is wrong BUT it isn't anything about previous injuries"

Doesn't that statement scream information to the public. On so many levels!

Haven't got a clue but not .... a list of possibilities. How stupid are fans to drink this koolaid.

How can anyone possibly say they don't know what's wrong but at the same time give a list of things it isn't?

Especially from a person that gets inside info. That sells an opinion to fans.

Hip! hip tweeked IMO

I figured at first he just had the flu, stomach issues as the flu bug is making it's rounds in the hockey world.

So I am right again.

This play. He kneels after the save and reaches for his hamstring with his glove hand.

That isn't his groin he's reaching for.

Welp, guess it is knee:

It ain't his knee either if that move has anything to do with the injury.

I'll tell you what it could be,

He hears or feels a "pop" and get a pinching paid near his ass.

His hip, it will need cleaning up now.

Isn't it weird, he reaches for his ass and every story is about a knee, which he doesn't reach for, a groin which if ANY BODY has pilled or tore a groin will know you don't reach behind your ass.

It could have been a hamstring, where you DO reach for your ass. And attached ligament(s).

FYI this was posted over 20 minutes before all the new chat, first by quite a bit.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

There a lot of internet doctors here.

What a disparaging remark and an insult to my background as a Facebook reader who has gained years worth of medical knowledge from unverified sources and memes.

 

[quat]

There a lot of internet doctors here.

The best kind!

 

[theguardianII]

Hmm. about that 4 or 5 year window with the core never being hurt.
RIP, Bourdon was going to be in the future, sometimes things just don't work out perfectly.

Demko not around in 2 years then what? Miller becomes a 50 point guy, Then what?

Planning on nothing changing or only improving is, well I guess what this forum is fantasy.

A real scramble on media to change the story to how good the Canucks are WITHOUT Demko.

Who pays the bills for these shows?

Allvin never promised a regular playoff contender as a matter of fact he hasn't said anything about consistently playing in the playoffs.
He did promise "A" playoff appearance. "The fans deserve a playoff appearance" Singular.

Demko or not the team is playing in the playoffs. Achieved

 

[quat]

What a disparaging remark and an insult to my background as a Facebook reader who has gained years worth of medical knowledge from unverified sources and memes.

You mean research.

 

[quat]

Hmm. about that 4 or 5 year window with the core never being hurt.
RIP, Bourdon was going to be in the future, sometimes things just don't work out perfectly.

Demko not around in 2 years then what? Miller becomes a 50 point guy, Then what?

Planning on nothing changing or only improving is, well I guess what this forum is fantasy.

A real scramble on media to change the story to how good the Canucks are WITHOUT Demko.

Who pays the bills for these shows?

Allvin never promised a regular playoff contender as a matter of fact he hasn't said anything about consistently playing in the playoffs.
He did promise "A" playoff appearance. "The fans deserve a playoff appearance" Singular.

Demko or not the team is playing in the playoffs. Achieved

Ah yea, the argument no one is making. It's great hearing different perspectives and opinions on the team, but why this need to act as though we're the only ones with the right ideas? Using your post as an example of something that's pretty endemic here. Why do so many speak in absolutes?

The posters that have the best track records are likely clocking in somewhere around with 60% accuracy. The rest are far below that. It's bizarre how over confident people are with their opinions.

 

[theguardianII]

What a disparaging remark and an insult to my background as a Facebook reader who has gained years worth of medical knowledge from unverified sources and memes.

Only a blind man misses symptoms. I suppose a sudden limp from a runner who also grasps his right glut is nothing but a flea bite.

Exaggeration, but most folks that have a surgery investigate just what is going to be done to their bodies.

Just so you know, a ligaments strength was estimated by doing the surgery on an animal and then euthanize it after a certain number of weeks and pulling the ligament apart and comparing the needed force to healthy ligament also taken from an euthanized animal. Dogs actually. It all out there if you want to look. There are whole charts or used to be. Not easily found 30 years ago. Used to have to use Tora Tora medical book and other medical books. Now you can watch the operations take place.

Control freaks really want to know what's happening with their bodies but most folks do as well. Ask your doctor if he will tell you.

 

[Quinning]

This is why a cushion is so important.

We likely don't win the Presidents without Demko but they'll at least put up .500 until he's back with DeSmith.

 

[Flik]

(Edited) >> Lots of words and emojis <<

 

[theguardianII]

 

[LemonSauceD]

 

[Bleach Clean]

I wouldn't sign Boeser or Guentzel to UFA deals. Guentzel because he's 30 to start next season and he's getting a max term deal. Boeser because his fatal flaw is conditioning and giving a fat UFA contract with term to someone who struggles with their personal fitness is a potential disaster.

I'd trade Boeser this summer to free up room and assets for other moves. He's good value right now but I already know I wouldn't extend him and that makes him too much of a luxury with all of our other priorities.

The goal is the cup in the next 2-3 years.

They have 2 more before Demko is up. Passing up Guentzel significantly impairs their chances in this regard. To me, the move is automatic, and the only concern is the AAV.

 

[Peen]

I also think the Stone / Guentzel comparison is asinine.

I agree with @mriswith that I wouldn’t re-sign Boeser (unless it was a very cheap deal that’s a no brainer). A heavy discount on his current contract.

If not, I think you try moneyballing his spot.

My assumption is management will get this free agency right. They nailed it last year.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

To me, the blocker to re-signing Boeser isn't cap hit, it's term. If he hits 35G-65P again next season, heading into UFA as a 28 year old, he'll have earned a decent raise. But I wouldn't want to pay him that past age 32 or so. Will Boeser entertain a 4 year contract? Who knows. But I wouldn't go longer than that.

 

[Nucker101]

Honestly I don’t think the on-ice chemistry between Miller and Boeser is even that great at 5v5.

 

[Donuts]

just secure 1st place in the pacific
i think vegas takes back 3rd and let oilers - vegas battle each other out 1st round

 

[vancityluongo]

To me, the blocker to re-signing Boeser isn't cap hit, it's term. If he hits 35G-65P again next season, heading into UFA as a 28 year old, he'll have earned a decent raise. But I wouldn't want to pay him that past age 32 or so. Will Boeser entertain a 4 year contract? Who knows. But I wouldn't go longer than that.

my worry with boeser is if he can outperform his cap hit again for the next two or three years. honestly fine giving him a retirement deal otherwise, because i don't see him as a guy sticking around to float his way to 10 minutes per game in his mid-30s if his legs fall out and he can't keep up. i just don't think he's going to be at this level consistently and i'd really look to cash in while his value is high.

the dream swap out would be to move boeser at the draft for a defenseman and to use separate assets to land buchnevich

or maybe it's the same trade. something like faulk + buch for boeser + 1st + ???

idk what the motivation for the blues would be as they don't get meaningfully younger (depending on what the ??? is), but they'd get a midwest guy in brock who might be more likely to want to stay than a russian who seems to at least be indicating that he wants out

 

[Bleach Clean]

So there are two issues at play.

1. You stated that “Getting him [Guentzel] would be a Mark Stone level event.”

2. I said Mark Stone was a way better player than Guentzel when acquired.

On the first issue, you should simply concede. There is no world where acquiring Guentzel, who would play his first game as a Canuck at 30, is on the same level of Vegas acquiring Stone, at the age of 26, even if one thought Stone and Guentzel were equal in terms of quality. And the two aren’t equal. Stone is very obviously the better player, and the debate is really by how much. But anyway, we don’t need to talk past each other on this. You just need to concede you are wrong and we can move on.

On the second issue, I agree there is ambiguity in what it means to be “way better”. In my mind, if one player is in a different tier than the other, than that player is “way better”. Stone is most certainly in a different tier, and none of what you have said has challenged this. You can’t claim, with any credibility, that one winger that scores as much as the other, but drives his own line and is a multiple Selke nominee winner, is in the same tier as the other winger. It’s ridiculous. And again, we are ignoring the relatively significant age difference.

Stone is 31. Why are you comparing this year? Are you really going to argue Guentzel is in the same tier defensively? Or that he is a primary play driver on his line while usually playing with Crosby?

They basically score at the same rate, and the ppg difference is negligible. Guentzel definitely has the edge in goal scoring, but that’s more than likely explained by the fact that he’s played with a generational talent and a player that will go down in nhl history as one of the all time greats.

Mark Stone would score more with Crosby and would probably score a similar number of goals and a much higher ppg. Sure, it’s speculation, but it’s grounded in reason.

I don’t know why it’s moot. It’s anything but moot and a huge part of this argument.

if you can pay a first and a good prospect for a Stone like player, at age 26, with a contract in place that is very reasonable, that is way better than signing an inferior and much older player to a higher cap hit contract. It’s not even close.

I know you will continue to try to “win” this debate, but I really do think you should concede, because Guentzel just isn’t a comparable player to Stone, and their acquisitions wouldn’t be comparable level events.

If you can't or are unwilling to evaluate the two players side by side, why challenge the level argument?

I offered:

1. SAT% Rel counts this year (Guentzel's are better) and each players' 5 year PPG/G averages.
2. Guentzel is the better scorer (5 years, including P/60), with better realized totals.
3. Guentzel has lower defensive impacts on average (admitted), and higher offensive impacts.

But for you to read that and still assert Guentzel isn't in the same class is... expected. Still, I'll concede Stone had a better prime. No problem. You've got the win.

Now that this bad faith counter-argument from you is over, let's address the initial contention which was: You advocated passing up on an elite winger for 2 mid-tier players. That's comical.

Despite his age, and despite not being prime Stone, Guentzel offers more impact to the roster than two mid-tier players ever could. That's the point. (The one you avoided)

 

[Bleach Clean]

Is Mark stone really a way better player than Guentzel? I mean yeah he is probably the most complete 2 way player but Guentzel is also a PPG pure offense winger.
60pt shutdown winger vs 30-40 goal scorer that has a history of scoring above PPG in the playoffs. Impact wise it’s pretty comparable.

I think you and I have both been drawn into a bad faith argument that didn't need to occur.

The real point of this is that adding an elite winger would be a great boon to this roster. Guentzel need not be Mark Stone to have this be the case. Forget Stone. It's a strawman that can't really be rationally explored here.

 

[David71]

TBH, Id rather throw 5x5 at Chandler Stephenson than Lindolm and use his him as our 3C.
Dudes a monster.

Miller 1C
EP40 2C
CS 3C

Insane talent and depth. Chandler adds a bit more grit and weight/seize too which I like

he can move up in the top 6 given his history in washington/vegas cup run

 

[credulous]

boeser is slow, not physical, bad defensively and floats way too often especially at 5v5. his numbers this year are all about a shooting percentage heater for not just him but also miller. he was never as bad as posters here claimed he was last year but he's not nearly as good as those same posters claim this year. he's a guy who can put the puck in the net when he has the right support but he's not contributing anything when he's not scoring

he's not gonna resign for the 4-6m he's probably actually worth so the canucks should be fine with walking away from him after next season. if anyone will give up anything for him in the offseason they should look at it hard