Canucks News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Playoffs Approaching

[Jerry the great]

The thing with Hoglander is that he's on a team friendly deal and is still an RFA so we have the potential to lock him up through his peak for below market value. Owen Power, as skilled as he is, isn't likely to offer that same value, so he might be a better player but in a cap league he might end up being a worse asset. I'd probably still do the deal because Hughes-Hronek and Power-Soucy look like cup winning D-pairs, but I can see why people highly value Hoglander.

HH
P S (both lefties)
J
$27.225 + whatever you spend on a bottom pair defender

HH
ST(anev)
ZJ
$27.125MM ($4MM for each for Z&T)

we still have Hoglander + whatever other other assets it would cost us to bring in Power.

 

[bobbyb2009]

I completely get and agree that the two of them should not even be put in the same sentence from a value perspective. Buffalo would be STUPID to do a trade like that.

Power would be a great add to any team, for the future and for the player etc.. And we are not getting him for Hollander - that is silly talk. But even saying that, it would not work for Vancouver with that cap hit and the balance of our D. 8.35 million in addition to Hughes, Hronek, Soucy, etc. simply would not work, if we want any forwards after petey and Miller.

Love to have him, not going to get him, but don't know how we could fit him anyways.

Therefore why I said, not sure I would do it for Hoglander. Although, if Buffalo were stupid enough to do it, Power would be worth a great deal more on the market, and the return we would get from others on the flip would be well worth losing even a good contract and player like Hog.

 

[Jerry the great]

In what world can the Canucks afford another $8M + player. Its kinda silly to get into trades at this time of year anyways.

If we get knocked out in the 1st round, well then we have some thinking to do. If we make a long run, well thats another thing.

Either way, we have no idea how much money will be available for FA's, nor how we are going to retain a bunch of this core. The top guys are sewed up for quite a while, but our 3rd and 4th lines have really been difference makers this year.

I think you can fit in $8MM in cap on a player/players that fill a hole/s.. But I wouldn't allocate all of it to a 2G, 2LD or 3C. And i wouldn't spend it on a guy that hasn't earned it yet. The Sabres took a chance signing him to a LTD after 1 season thinking surely he'd break out and most of the contract would look cheap. hasn't happened yet but still totally could.

 

[Tables of Stats]

HH
P S (both lefties)
J
$27.225 + whatever you spend on a bottom pair defender

HH
ST(anev)
ZJ
$27.125MM ($4MM for each for Z&T)

we still have Hoglander + whatever other other assets it would cost us to bring in Power.

I'm fine with two lefties on a pairing. I'd also be happy with something like
Hughes - Hronek
Power - Cheap 5D RHS
Zadorov - Juulsen

We run with a 1D 2D 2D and then 5D 5D 6D mix.

 

[arttk]

Kinda shifting the topic a bit, I would not be surprised if a team like Buffalo or Carolina make an offer sheet for Hronek in the summer.

It’s super rare, but given the circumstances of both those teams that desperately need a RHD that can carry play and man the PP for them long term, as well as where they’re at in their current stages, Hronek would be a perfect fit for them.

Mainly Buffalo because they need a RHD more than anything that can eat 22 minutes a night. They don’t need more prospect or high picks and need guys like Hronek for them to be able to take the next step. The main thing is that they’ll be willing to pay whatever it is Hronek wants.

That, or possibly a 1 for 1 trade featuring Power and Hronek if they don’t want 4 guys that inevitably will struggle to find PP minutes.

I think Hronek will be a hot commodity in the summer and there will be teams willing to pay possibly twice the amount we paid to get him.

Carolina on the other hand likely lets Pesce walk because that’s a huge risk signing given his steady decline before the age of 30. Burns won’t be ageless forever, and then they have Chatfield and DeAngelo as their remaining depth. Scott Morrow is coming up but he’s likely a couple more years before he becomes a contributing factor. Hronek fits the age of the core, is a top 3 defenseman, and Carolina has the space to sign him to a contract that Hronek would ultimately want.

If not an offer sheet which they’ve done in the recent times, a package that involves Scott Morrow + Necas is definitely something that both teams can work around. You’d probably have to go ahead and sign Tanev so we don’t lose an immediate top 4 defenseman without gaining one back.

It’ll be interesting to see how the Hronek situation folds. With the OEL penalty and needing to re sign other key guys, and with Willander likely just around the corner, it’s imperative that we get Hronek in a team friendly deal and look to move him if there’s a better situation. Hronek in my opinion is absolutely not a $7M+ defenseman.

Offer sheets feels unlikely.. I think GMs have learned that all it does it piss off the other side and they rarely ever actually get the player and it just ends with a revenge offer sheet.

If we can’t come to terms with Hronek i am pretty sure it’ll be easier for GMs to get a trade done to get Hronek than to actually put in an offer sheet. Will probably be cheaper too,

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I'd easily do a deal around Hronek and Hoglander for Power if Buffalo has soured enough and Hronek negotiations are not going well.

Given their glut of forwards, I'd look to try and pry someone like Kulich in the deal as well, even if it means adding.

Sign Dad in the offseason.

Re-sign Zadorov.

Re-sign Freidman for cheap

Roll with:

Hughes-Tanev
Power-Zadorov/Soucy
Soucy/Zadorov-Juulsen
Friedman

Clearly this is pure fantasy as I don't believe Buffalo is that stupid. Least I don't think so.

 

[I am toxic]

 

[LemonSauceD]

So Hronek, who's been a great fit with Hughes and is a right shot, isn't worth $7MM, but you would want to trade him for a guy who has worse numbers, shoots left and makes $1.35MM more. how does that make sense?

Because Power is 21 years old and has the higher potential. Don’t think many people realize how much Hughes has carried Hronek. Power’s contract will likely turn out to be a steal in 2-3 years.

I just don’t think Hronek is worth 7M + despite his point totals. I’m more than fine having him around if he signs for $6.5M and under. More than that I would not be fine. In reality, he’s a #3-4 defenseman who’s done very well in a role as a top pairing defenseman alongside one of if not the best defenseman in the game. Away from Hughes, he hasn’t really impressed me at all. He’s a Neal Pionk/Justin Schultz type of defenseman. A guy who can eat minutes and play relatively well but is just far too inconsistent defensively.

Hronek at $7.2-7.5M is not good.

 

[Nucker101]

If they sign Hronek, I actually prefer longer term. I do believe the cap is going to rise quite a bit over the next 4-5 years. If the team ends up struggling during his contract or he shows that he’s not effective away from Hughes, his $7M-ish cap hit(give or take a few hundred K per year) should be moveable.


I’m more worried about the type of trade protections he’ll get on his contract that could make it challenging moving him if need be. I’m hoping for a pretty limited NTC, maybe 5-10 teams so he can avoid the cities/franchises at the bottom of his preference list but the team also has some freedom to move him if they feel necessary.

This summer and these past couple of years were actually a good time to have core players needing new deals imo.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Guentzel produces at about the same rate as Stone, but has generally had better linemates (Crosby).

Defensively, Guentzel is 'mediocre' or 'passable' at best while Stone is literally the best defensive winger in the NHL.

It's like comparing Tyson Barrie to Drew Doughty. Numbers might be similar, but one guy is on a different level.

Hyperbole.

Guentzel produces at a level above Stone, both in terms P/60 and realized totals. The latter showing a clear deviation between the two. (Especially at peak)

What impresses me about Guentzel is that he beats Stone's rate while playing about 2~ more min at ES. Meaning, he keeps his efficiency higher when being relied upon to keep it high. He delivers.

Stone has had better defensive highs, no question. Lower lows too (Likely due to injuries). On balance though, yeah, no question he is better there. Guentzel is also rightly called passable there.

To me, it's more like Boeser vs a pre-30 goal Buchnevich. Yes, you would take Buch overall, he's close enough in points/goals that his 3 zone play wins out, but Boeser is the more skilled player, and will score at a level above Buch moving forward.

 

[theguardianII]

Boeser and his agent rescinded his trade request at the end of last season (we've already gone over this. but you still cannot distinguish between facts and fantasy).

Patrick Allvin also welcomed the fact that Boeser was playing on the Canucks this season..All due to Rick Tocchet refocusing Boeser's game.

Hmm, after asking for most of last season, including getting his agent involved in searching for a trade he suddenly decides to change his desires?
RIIIIGHT!
What the hell do expect all involved to say? "Gee, I don't want to be here". That would be a real nail in the coffin for leverage in trade talks don't you think? After the Kessler feed back from the fans this would be a great idea eh?

Or how about, okay your winning now now I want to stay ....but start losing again or put me anywhere other than playing with one of the two star forwards then ......

You really think having players on the team that spent almost a year asking to be traded is a GOOD foundation to build a team on.

Boeser got lucky, period. How many goals in the first 15 games? How many empty netters?

HE decided he didn't want to be here, HE DID and the team refused to add sweeteners to move him. His play wasn't good enough to trade him, virtually no teams wanted him or Garland without a substantial addition or compensation.

If they sign Hronek, I actually prefer longer term. I do believe the cap is going to rise quite a bit over the next 4-5 years. If the team ends up struggling during his contract or he shows that he’s not effective away from Hughes, his $7M-ish cap hit(give or take a few hundred K per year) should be moveable.


I’m more worried about the type of trade protections he’ll get on his contract that could make it challenging moving him if need be. I’m hoping for a pretty limited NTC, maybe 5-10 teams so he can avoid the cities/franchises at the bottom of his preference list but the team also has some freedom to move him if they feel necessary.

This summer and these past couple of years were actually a good time to have core players needing new deals imo.

His market value has been set by the Canucks when they traded for him. That give his agent leverage. Sort of pay him the going rates or not. BUT if not enough then ....
The going rate for even 50 point players is substantial.

But I believe he is very tradable, the team has Hughes and a few of the other dmen are moving the puck, just not holding it as long, good first passes though.

To me, it's more like Boeser vs a pre-30 goal Buchnevich. Yes, you would take Buch overall, he's close enough in points/goals that his 3 zone play wins out, but Boeser is the more skilled player, and will score at a level above Buch moving forward.

The same? Boeser is slower, hardly ever carries the puck, last year he struggled when not playing with 1A or 1AA centers. When was his last smokin shot from the half boards? Or from 15 feet out? When was his last big hit? Great dangle? How many times is he the first forechecker? And the forechecker thing he starts fro the dots out so he has a step and still is not having to hold up hardly ever.

I truly hope the rest of the league think Boeser is FANTASTIC so the team trade him and replace him with a couple of young studs that can help his line mates play the other half of the game, a 200 foot game.

Don't go all goo goo about his whopping 35 goals, Horvat had that playing in that role and would have had more. He got replaced with raising a sweat.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Hmm, after asking for most of last season, including getting his agent involved in searching for a trade he suddenly decides to change his desires?
RIIIIGHT!
What the hell do expect all involved to say? "Gee, I don't want to be here". That would be a real nail in the coffin for leverage in trade talks don't you think? After the Kessler feed back from the fans this would be a great idea eh?

Or how about, okay your winning now now I want to stay ....but start losing again or put me anywhere other than playing with one of the two star forwards then ......

You really think having players on the team that spent almost a year asking to be traded is a GOOD foundation to build a team on.

Boeser got lucky, period. How many goals in the first 15 games? How many empty netters?

HE decided he didn't want to be here, HE DID and the team refused to add sweeteners to move him. His play wasn't good enough to trade him, virtually no teams wanted him or Garland without a substantial addition or compensation.

His market value has been set by the Canucks when they traded for him. That give his agent leverage. Sort of pay him the going rates or not. BUT if not enough then ....
The going rate for even 50 point players is substantial.

But I believe he is very tradable, the team has Hughes and a few of the other dmen are moving the puck, just not holding it as long, good first passes though.

The same? Boeser is slower, hardly ever carries the puck, last year he struggled when not playing with 1A or 1AA centers. When was his last smokin shot from the half boards? Or from 15 feet out? When was his last big hit? Great dangle? How many times is he the first forechecker? And the forechecker thing he starts fro the dots out so he has a step and still is not having to hold up hardly ever.

I truly hope the rest of the league think Boeser is FANTASTIC so the team trade him and replace him with a couple of young studs that can help his line mates play the other half of the game, a 200 foot game.

Don't go all goo goo about his whopping 35 goals, Horvat had that playing in that role and would have had more. He got replaced with raising a sweat.

He did change his desires (and the team was happy to accommodate them), and this has been confirmed by the player/ agent/team/ media....It worked out fantastically for all concerned.

There's a lot more to Boeser's game than just scoring..Smart player.

You've demonstrated a penchant for fudging statistics, and creating great wall of text garbled misinformation...Not buying it.

 

[Vector]

“There’s been no contract talks between the Canucks and Nikita Zadorov, who has played really well in the past three weeks,” Dhaliwal said. “I told you, they’re going to try to re-sign Myers. What’s the biggest difference between Myers and Zadorov? Righty, lefty. That’s all you need to know, folks.

 

[arttk]

“There’s been no contract talks between the Canucks and Nikita Zadorov, who has played really well in the past three weeks,” Dhaliwal said. “I told you, they’re going to try to re-sign Myers. What’s the biggest difference between Myers and Zadorov? Righty, lefty. That’s all you need to know, folks.

prefer Zadorov over Myers, Zadorov actually scares people.

 

[valkynax]

“There’s been no contract talks between the Canucks and Nikita Zadorov, who has played really well in the past three weeks,” Dhaliwal said. “I told you, they’re going to try to re-sign Myers. What’s the biggest difference between Myers and Zadorov? Righty, lefty. That’s all you need to know, folks.

The thought of them rather giving Myers 4 mil than evening trying to talk extension with Zad is concerning.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

“There’s been no contract talks between the Canucks and Nikita Zadorov, who has played really well in the past three weeks,” Dhaliwal said. “I told you, they’re going to try to re-sign Myers. What’s the biggest difference between Myers and Zadorov? Righty, lefty. That’s all you need to know, folks.

It really depends what Zadorov is pushing for. Good as he's been lately, he's also had a long stretching of games where even 4M looked a little dicey. And that's the most I feel comparable offering him. 4.5M is... fine but not a great number. If he genuinely thinks he can get 5M+ on the market, go forth my dude. Cause you shouldn't get it here.

I'd bring back Cole without a second thought. I'd prefer he shave off a 1M though. Maybe 2M/2yrs. He's been fantastic as our 5th who can move up when needed. It's only when he had to carry the load Soucy filled for so long did he start looking bad. Perfect depth defenseman who could potentially help mentor Willander.

 

[Nucker101]

It really depends what Zadorov is pushing for. Good as he's been lately, he's also had a long stretching of games where even 4M looked a little dicey. And that's the most I feel comparable offering him. 4.5M is... fine but not a great number. If he genuinely thinks he can get 5M+ on the market, go forth my dude. Cause you shouldn't get it here.

I'd bring back Cole without a second thought. I'd prefer he shave off a 1M though. Maybe 2M/2yrs. He's been fantastic as our 5th who can move up when needed. It's only when he had to carry the load Soucy filled for so long did he start looking bad. Perfect depth defenseman who could potentially help mentor Willander.

I think Zadorov will walk. Everytime he's asked about his ability, he talks about how he still thinks he has another level to reach as an all around player. He's playing 17 minutes per game in Vancouver so far, I don't think he's thrilled with that usage and I don't think management will be eager to throw $5M per at a guy who's being used as a #5 dman.


I love having the guy on the team just because he's such a fun player, but I'm already prepared for him to leave.

 

[iceburg]

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

DP.

 

[valkynax]

DP.

DPO?

 

[Tables of Stats]

DPO?

DPO2PDO

 

[wonton15]

I’d rather pay Zadorov a bit more than give Myers a contract at all

 

[rypper]

Boeser got lucky, period. How many goals in the first 15 games? How many empty netters?

12 of his 35 goals, and 1 en goal.

And people never change their minds. Ever.

 

[valkynax]

DPO2PDO

I vaguely recall there was another forward (unsure if W or C) whose name is Elias Pettersson, I think?

Can you imagine the commentary? Shorthouse and Ferraro's heads are gonna explode:

"Elias Pettersson blocked the shot and now Elias Pettersson and Elias Pettersson are breaking out. They got a chance with a 2 on 1 here. Pettersson is getting up and now he's jumped in the rush. Pettersson is looking at Pettersson and Pettersson, they slow down, stopped. Pettersson's shot, it was blocked with a rebound and Pettersson pounced and SCORE! Pettersson's goal, with assist from Pettersson and Pettersson! Wow...the chemistry between Pettersson Pettersson and Pettersson, just incredible!"

 

[Bleach Clean]

The same? Boeser is slower, hardly ever carries the puck, last year he struggled when not playing with 1A or 1AA centers. When was his last smokin shot from the half boards? Or from 15 feet out? When was his last big hit? Great dangle? How many times is he the first forechecker? And the forechecker thing he starts fro the dots out so he has a step and still is not having to hold up hardly ever.

I truly hope the rest of the league think Boeser is FANTASTIC so the team trade him and replace him with a couple of young studs that can help his line mates play the other half of the game, a 200 foot game.

Don't go all goo goo about his whopping 35 goals, Horvat had that playing in that role and would have had more. He got replaced with raising a sweat.

Not the same, no. You would still take Buch, but the degree of difference between the two in overall value isn't vast. There's a reason Boeser gets paid more, and earlier. Production matters.

I think there is an inherent bias towards overvaluing 2way play against the volatility of scoring/producing. (@Aqualung re: Boeser) Boeser is an erratic scorer (like most scorers), but scoring is coveted. 2way play is favoured, but how much would you need to make up that difference in skill and less effective 2way play? A constant question.

On the flipside, Mikheyev just scored again after 32 games. He's now a checker. His $5m AAV has hurt the team this year, but he is able to hang around just checking. A completely different standard to what we expect of Boeser.

Thankfully, Boeser isn't the complete lost cause over 200 feet that Kuzmenko turned out to be either. The coach seems to trust him with the hardest assignments. This has to be factored into the overall analysis.