Canucks Managerial Thread

[PM]

Walker is a good hire. He's not like a Dave Babych hire for the sake of community relations, he's coached at the highest levels of junior hockey.

He's more qualified to be President of Hockey Ops than Linden.

 

[tc 23]

Walker is a good hire. He's not like a Dave Babych hire for the sake of community relations, he's coached at the highest levels of junior hockey.

Definitely encouraging to hear. It'll be interesting to see what effect he'll have on our player development.

 

[WTG]

That's not really the case though, you can re-read the thread when he was signed to his former deal and most thought it was a fair contract. I do think he's a tad overpaid, probably by about 500k or so. Not the end of the world. If his possession game improves, and no reason it won't if he plays with Burrows and Higgins, then the contract is fine.

3.3 x 2yrs >>>>>>> 4.5m x 6 yrs Full NMC

Yeah, that contract is terribad.

 

[The Jesus*]

3.3 x 2yrs >>>>>>> 4.5m x 6 yrs Full NMC

Yeah, that contract is terribad.

It's bad if Sutter cant fit the bill and step his game up. I like Sutter, personally. Not big on the contract, especially the full NMC, but time will tell.

 

[greasy goals]

I will say one thing and ONLY one thing in defense of the Sutter contract: if you convert his salary to USD, he's earning what he would earn on any US team in the NHL (about 3.5 million). So it may just be the cost of doing business as a Canadian team. However, the term is inexcusable. The fact that Benning didn't wait to see his actual on-ice performance is inexcusable. And, without any discount, the NTC is inexcusable.

 

[Vtownfan]

I will say one thing and ONLY one thing in defense of the Sutter contract: if you convert his salary to USD, he's earning what he would earn on any US team in the NHL (about 3.5 million). So it may just be the cost of doing business as a Canadian team. However, the term is inexcusable. The fact that Benning didn't wait to see his actual on-ice performance is inexcusable. And, without any discount, the NTC is inexcusable.

All salaries are paid in US dollars. At the dollar today he would be earning $5,755,312.17 CDN

That is why a drop in the CDN$$ hurts Canadian teams so much. They collect CDN$$ ticket prices and pay US$$ salaries.

 

[greasy goals]

Uh all salaries are paid in US dollars. At the dollar today he would be earning $5,755,312.17 CDN

I stand corrected.

 

[arsmaster*]

3.3 x 2yrs >>>>>>> 4.5m x 6 yrs Full NMC

Yeah, that contract is terribad.

Which contenders have $4.5 million dollar 3rd liners? Not chi-town, not Anaheim, not LA, not Tampa, not New York...none of them.

Tampa pays Bryan Boyle less than half for the same role. Sutter is better, but not by a ton.

It's just not smart to worry about market value, the best teams pay their best players market value and the rest of their roster are cheaper, smarter, shorter term players.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Are guys like McCann, Hutton, and Gaunce better off in Utica/Juniors?

Are guys like McCann, Hutton, and Gaunce better off in Utica/Juniors?

I'll be honest. I was irritated with both Rey Ferraro and Jeff Patterson when they stated that McCann and Hutton were better off in Juniors and Utica respectively.

Ferraro's argument was that McCann would be wasted on the 4th line since Benning/WD are committed to having Prust and Dorsett down there. Ferraro felt that it would be better for McCann to go back to Junior, and get loads of ice-time in a top 6 role as opposed to getting limited ice-time in a 4th line role with two plugs.

Patterson feels the same way, and also put Hutton in that same boat. Patterson feels that Hutton wouldn't play Top 6 if he made the team, and would get limited ice-time as a 5/6 d-man. In Utica however, he'd be THE guy, and would get tons of ice-time and responsibility. On top of that, since injuries inevitably occur on defense, Hutton would be the first call-up.

Up front, if someone on the bottom 6 got injured, Gaunce could get the call-up......all the while taking on more responsibilities down in Utica.

I was quite upset with those lines of thought yesterday, but I am a bit more open to that idea today. Not 100% sold on it, but "open" to it nonetheless.

Sedin-Sedin-Vrbata (solid scoring line)

Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen (the "kid" line. The "wildcard" line. Potential to completely blow the roof off expectations if last night was of any indication. If this line exceeds expecations by a country mile, it could mark the first time since 2011 that we have respectable secondary scoring).

Burrows-Sutter-Hansen (The shut down line - with decent scoring potential. This shut down line could be among the best in the NHL).

Prust-Cracknell-Dorsett (This line would be quite slow, but would be a solid 'enforcer' line that would be capable of chipping in the odd goal here and there. This line would be reminiscent of the 1994 line that had Antoski-McIntyre-Hunter).

Edler-Tanev

Hamhuis-Bartkowski

Sbisa-Weber

-Vey gets waived and makes it down to Utica (I don't see teams picking him up)
-McCann goes back to Junior
-Gaunce goes back to Utica and gets called up if there is an injury on the bottom 6 either at Center or Left Wing.
-Kenins goes back to Utica and gets called up if there is another injury on the bottom 6 on Left Wing (Gaunce is already up)
-Grenier gets called up if there an injury on the right wing on lines 2-3-4.
-Shinkaruk gets called up if there is an injury to Baertschi or Vrbata
-Hutton gets called up if there is any injury on defense.
-Biega is the second guy that gets called up if there are two injuries on defense.
-Higgins gets traded for a 3rd round pick if Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen show promise as a line over the course of 9 games.

Thoughts?

 

[Scurr]

3.3 x 2yrs >>>>>>> 4.5m x 6 yrs Full NMC

Yeah, that contract is terribad.

5 years x 4.375m http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=776308

NTC 16/17/18

15 team NTC 19/20

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/vancouver-canucks/brandon-sutter/

 

[JuniorNelson]

(Re: Sutter) the term is inexcusable. The fact that Benning didn't wait to see his actual on-ice performance is inexcusable. And, without any discount, the NTC is inexcusable.

All true.

 

[Vtownfan]

Which contenders have $4.5 million dollar 3rd liners? Not chi-town, not Anaheim, not LA, not Tampa, not New York...none of them.

Tampa pays Bryan Boyle less than half for the same role. Sutter is better, but not by a ton.

It's just not smart to worry about market value, the best teams pay their best players market value and the rest of their roster are cheaper, smarter, shorter term players.

Hold your hats. Chicago just waived Bickell. That guy has Benning player written all over him. 4.5mil sounds exactly the kind of contract Benning would think is good value for those intangibles and meat and potatoes.

I'm sure we could waive Burrows to make room for him....

 

[Scurr]

Thoughts?

You don't say the young guys have a shot and then send them down when they outplay just about everyone on the roster. Gaunce, McCann and Virtanen have earned spots over Kenins, Vey and Prust imo. They haven't just been better… they've been significantly better.

Also, you don't really know where they'll fit in until you give them some run. Right now… they all look like they should be in the lineup getting significant ice-time... not just on the team. If that changes, you reevaluate. Hutton shouldn't be in the pressbox regularly… McCann and Virtanen shouldn't be playing limited minutes with plugs… but until then… they should be here.

If you lose Corrado and/or Vey to waivers… so be it. I actually like both and think they're decent NHL options… which is why I'm excited about the kids outplaying them.

 

[WTG]

5 years x 4.375m http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=776308

NTC 16/17/18

15 team NTC 19/20

http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/vancouver-canucks/brandon-sutter/

Still bad.

Sutter is a average 3rd liner at this point. You don't give guys that are in your bottom 6 that kind of money/term.

 

[JuniorNelson]

I'm thinking I'd platoon Burrows and Vrbata on the Sedin line (when Higgins gets back). Fewer games might mean fresher legs for those guys?

If they want to keep Guance at 4C, they can shift Vey to RW with Kenins on LW. Prust can emanate leadership from the press box.

 

[Scurr]

Still bad.

No need to exaggerate, then.

Sutter is a average 3rd liner at this point. You don't give guys that are in your bottom 6 that kind of money/term.

If he's an average 3rd line centre… it's a bad deal. I'm excited about a guy that can limit goals the way he has with the QOT he has been playing with. I think we're getting an upper end defensive forward. A centre that can make a bottom 6 line able to hold water against top 6 opponents is very valuable imo.

 

[VanJack]

Hold your hats. Chicago just waived Bickell. That guy has Benning player written all over him. 4.5mil sounds exactly the kind of contract Benning would think is good value for those intangibles and meat and potatoes.

I'm sure we could waive Burrows to make room for him....

Actually Bickell wouldn't look half-bad on the fourth line if it weren't for that horrendous contract.....how about Prust and Vey straight up for Bickell?.....Prust and Vey are on expiring contracts so they could go to the minors...and in the case of Prust, he'd be closer to his family in Montreal.....Bickell and Dorsett between either Cracknall or McCann would be an interesting combo....just sayin'

 

[WTG]

If he's an average 3rd line centre… it's a bad deal. I'm excited about a guy that can limit goals the way he has with the QOT he has been playing with. I think we're getting an upper end defensive forward. A centre that can make a bottom 6 line able to hold water against top 6 opponents is very valuable imo.

Yeah like Richardson? Who signed for half of Sutter money?

 

[Scurr]

Yeah like Richardson? Who signed for half of Sutter money?

Richardson is an overrated defensive player. He's adequate defensively and an underrated offensive player. I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with him facing Getzlaf, Kopitar, Monahan, etc. in a 7 game series.

 

[Horse McHindu]

You don't say the young guys have a shot and then send them down when they outplay just about everyone on the roster. Gaunce, McCann and Virtanen have earned spots over Kenins, Vey and Prust imo. They haven't just been better… they've been significantly better.

Also, you don't really know where they'll fit in until you give them some run. Right now… they all look like they should be in the lineup getting significant ice-time... not just on the team. If that changes, you reevaluate. Hutton shouldn't be in the pressbox regularly… McCann and Virtanen shouldn't be playing limited minutes with plugs… but until then… they should be here.

If you lose Corrado and/or Vey to waivers… so be it. I actually like both and think they're decent NHL options… which is why I'm excited about the kids outplaying them.

As far as kids replacing vets go, I guess Benning wouldn't technically be lying if Baertschi and Virtanen made the team riding shotgun on Horvat's line (which then prompted Benning to trade Higgins and waive Vey).

One thing to keep in mind is this: Yes, the kids have looked better than the vets in this pre-season, but most vets (on both the Canucks and other teams) "go through the motions" during this time while the kids are fighting for their lives. From that perspective, it's not really a fair comparison.

I love McCann and Hutton. No two players in this camp have impressed me more than them. Hence - why I was quite upset with the comments of Jeff Patterson and Rey Ferrero (i.e. both should head back to Juniors/Utica). After thinking about it however, do they have a point?

As much as we love McCann and Hutton, do we really want McCann to be playing in between two plumbers? (i.e. Prust/Dorsett), OR, is there a benefit in seeing McCann go back to Juniors where he potentially dominates?

Ditto for Hutton. Do we really want him playing 5/6 with limited minutes, OR, is there a benefit in getting him more ice-time down in Utica in a dominant "alpha" role (and then being the 1st guy to get called up in case of injury).

On the flip side of all this however - I think there is danger in sending down a kid who might be ready......and destroying his enthusiasm. Shinkaruk and Corrado come to mind.

 

[VanJack]

Yeah like Richardson? Who signed for half of Sutter money?

...or Bonino who was earning 60 percent less....not to mention the second-rounder we gave up

 

[a Fool]

Nice. Walker's done quite a stint in Jr. hockey since retiring.

Wonder what he'll actually be doing. Some of these job titles are very vague.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Richardson is an overrated defensive player. He's adequate defensively and an underrated offensive player. I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with him facing Getzlaf, Kopitar, Monahan, etc. in a 7 game series.

Kinda like how I wouldn't be comfortable with Sutter facing those guys in a 7 game series.

Sutter is an overrated player who's likely to be a 10-15 goal, 25-30 point player. He's not that great on face-offs, and he's adequate defensively. He's not physical at all, but is a good skater. You don't pay $4.25M for 5 years to guys like that. Benning fell into the trap of paying for Sutter because of his name.

 

[WTG]

Richardson is an overrated defensive player. He's adequate defensively and an underrated offensive player. I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with him facing Getzlaf, Kopitar, Monahan, etc. in a 7 game series.

Really? I would.

Richardson was one the best PKers in the league last year.

...or Bonino who was earning 60 percent less....not to mention the second-rounder we gave up

Pretty much.

It was a dumb trade and I agree with y2k that Benning overpaid because he saw the name Sutter.

 

[Scurr]

Kinda like how I wouldn't be comfortable with Sutter facing those guys in a 7 game series.

He's obviously a better matchup physically than Richardson or Bonino.

Sutter is an overrated player who's likely to be a 10-15 goal, 25-30 point player. He's not that great on face-offs, and he's adequate defensively. He's not physical at all, but is a good skater. You don't pay $4.25M for 5 years to guys like that. Benning fell into the trap of paying for Sutter because of his name.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...5000&teamid=0&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

And he has a good history of preventing goals despite not having played with great defensive players.