Canucks Managerial Thread

[SaltySnipes*]

As long as Roland McKeown doesn't turn into anything we'll be fine

 

[Pip]

As long as Roland McKeown doesn't turn into anything we'll be fine

How McKeown turns out doesn't change the fact that it was a terrible trade to make.

 

[tc 23]

How McKeown turns out doesn't change the fact that it was a terrible trade to make.

Never got that logic. If you trade the 1st overall pick for Derek Dorsett and the player picked with the 1st overall pick ends up playing 0 games in the NHL, it doesn't mean the trade was a wash or a win for the team acquiring Dorsett - the fact that the other team got nothing notable in return reduces the sting but it was still terrible value and a stupid trade to make in the first place.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

The centre version of Higgins/Hansen is twice as valuable because of the added defensive responsibility of playing centre.

Getting points! isn't the only way to have a significant impact on a hockey game.

No it isn't. Centers get constantly overrated, but outside of the primary scorers - your Henrik caliber types - they are not "twice as valuable." If Sutter only puts up 35 points, he will be seen as a failure unless his two-way game is at Toews' level.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

So when's McCann ever going to get opportunities to crack the roster then? Henrik's here for 3 more years, Bo's here for hopefully a very long time, and Sutter's locked in for 5 more years. Those are the team's top-3 centers in the eyes of current management for the present and distant future.

If McCann's ever going to break in at center, it'll have to be on the 4th line anyways or he'll have to somehow push Sutter down to take his spot on the 3rd line.

Honestly, unless Sutter wows at center, I would eventually like to see him tried as a winger. He has a good shot, but utterly lacks any offensive awareness. This could easily be mitigated if we lessened his responsibilities. Granted, I can't see management doing that, given it would mean Sutter isn't living up to the hopes they had.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Food for thought:

Going with the possible 'Sutter for wing' position at some point in the future, I'm wondering if you could even try Sutter with the twins?

Sedin-Sedin-Sutter
Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen
Burrows-McCann-Vrbata
Higgins-Vey-Hansen

4 potentially good scoring lines

 

[greasy goals]

Food for thought:

Going with the possible 'Sutter for wing' position at some point in the future, I'm wondering if you could even try Sutter with the twins?

Sedin-Sedin-Sutter
Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen
Burrows-McCann-Vrbata
Higgins-Vey-Hansen

4 potentially good scoring lines

Hmmm... yeah, get a weak-passing weak-on-the-boards guy to play the cycle game with the Sedins.... sounds good

 

[Horse McHindu]

Hmmm... yeah, get a weak-passing weak-on-the-boards guy to play the cycle game with the Sedins.... sounds good

I'll give you the weak-on-the-boards argument, but Vrbata's not exactly strong on the boards either. You don't need to be a great passer to be with the twins either. Just drive the net, be in position, and the twins will find you. That's what dancin' Anson did back in 2006, and he wasn't exactly Peter Forsberg in terms of his passing abilities.

Sutter is a RHS, loves to drive the net, and knows how Centers think after having been one all his life. I wouldn't mind experimenting with the idea at some point.....especially if McCann stays on board and proves himself worthy of having better linemates than those two popcorn farts in Prust and Dorsett.

 

[sting101]

He's obviously a better matchup physically than Richardson or Bonino.



http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...5000&teamid=0&type=goals&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

And he has a good history of preventing goals despite not having played with great defensive players.

Those are some foundational numbers. thanks for the link

Sutter was a good pick up.

He's an elite 3C that can match up against top centers.
He elevates his game in the playoffs.
His salary is a mild overpayment.....but from his side what do you think he would have gotten as a 27yr old UFA next summer.?
His NTC is really only 3 yrs with half the league available after that.
He's not blocking anyone.
Sedin's are done here in 3 yrs. at which time.....

Horvat (23)
McCann (22)
Sutter (29)
Cassels (23).....that's a group of centers we can win with and only one is of UFA age.

 

[Pip]

Never got that logic. If you trade the 1st overall pick for Derek Dorsett and the player picked with the 1st overall pick ends up playing 0 games in the NHL, it doesn't mean the trade was a wash or a win for the team acquiring Dorsett - the fact that the other team got nothing notable in return reduces the sting but it was still terrible value and a stupid trade to make in the first place.

Yep. We could have moved that second for a different player/prospect as well. A second round pick has a set value and blowimg it on a poor player is bad asset management no matter what happens to the player the pick is used on.

If we get a top 6 player for a 7th rounder, but then that 7th rounder becomes a superstar it doesn't make it a bad trade.

They'll end up waivibg vey in 3 months when teams are looking for players. Then he'll get claimed and utica will be worse off than necessary.

Exactly. This is the time to get players through waivers. I don't think many, if any, teams want Vey but the chances go up as we get into the season that some team will be desperate enough to take a chance on him.

 

[WTG]

Sutter is not a elite 3rd line center.

Look at Manny's 10-11 season. That is the benchmark for elite #3 defense centers.

Sutter does not even come close.

 

[Hit the post]

He's an elite 3C that can match up against top centers.

Pretty solid defensively but elite? He doesn't strike me as a strong Selke candidate (and his vote totals for that trophy in the past support that IMHO). But that's just my opinion.

 

[greasy goals]

I'll give you the weak-on-the-boards argument, but Vrbata's not exactly strong on the boards either. You don't need to be a great passer to be with the twins either. Just drive the net, be in position, and the twins will find you. That's what dancin' Anson did back in 2006, and he wasn't exactly Peter Forsberg in terms of his passing abilities.

Sutter is a RHS, loves to drive the net, and knows how Centers think after having been one all his life. I wouldn't mind experimenting with the idea at some point.....especially if McCann stays on board and proves himself worthy of having better linemates than those two popcorn farts in Prust and Dorsett.

Hey, you never know...

 

[VC]

Yep. We could have moved that second for a different player/prospect as well. A second round pick has a set value and blowimg it on a poor player is bad asset management no matter what happens to the player the pick is used on.

If we get a top 6 player for a 7th rounder, but then that 7th rounder becomes a superstar it doesn't make it a bad trade.

A 2nd rounder for a potential 2nd line centre is a good trade. Agreed that whoever is picked has no barring on the trade after the fact. It is unfortunate for us the that the prospect traded for was Linden Vey.

With better pro scouting, I have no issue with that kind of trade.

 

[SaltySnipes*]

How McKeown turns out doesn't change the fact that it was a terrible trade to make.

The trade made sense at the time, though. It was a decent risk in a player with a very high skill level. The fact it blew up in Benning's face is his fault though.

 

[sting101]

Sutter is not a elite 3rd line center.

Look at Manny's 10-11 season. That is the benchmark for elite #3 defense centers.

Sutter does not even come close.

Sutter:
I rank him between 55-60 at his position.

Malhotra was a beauty that season. What a shame the injury was. Malhotra turned 30 that year and used all of his experience to have his best (career) year. While Sutter will never be as good at faceoffs.....his defensive play is elite and he produces more offense and best of all he elevates in the post season.

I like the acquisition....just my opinion

 

[WTG]

Sutter:
I rank him between 55-60 at his position.

Malhotra was a beauty that season. What a shame the injury was. Malhotra turned 30 that year and used all of his experience to have his best (career) year. While Sutter will never be as good at faceoffs.....his defensive play is elite and he produces more offense and best of all he elevates in the post season.

I like the acquisition....just my opinion

Manny had 25% ozone starts.

Managed to put up a 45CF%

Put up a 1.18 pts/60 5v5



Sutter had 47% ozone starts

Managed to put up a 49.4CF%

Put up a 1.18pts/60 5v5


Sutter doesn't even come close to manny. Sutter is NOT elite

 

[Pip]

A 2nd rounder for a potential 2nd line centre is a good trade. Agreed that whoever is picked has no barring on the trade after the fact. It is unfortunate for us the that the prospect traded for was Linden Vey.

With better pro scouting, I have no issue with that kind of trade.

Just being a potential #2 centre means nothing. It's the liklihood of him turning out and given his lack of tools and limited skilkset holding him back I would argue that it was unlikely. This is a player the Kings couldn't find a spot for.

 

[sting101]

Manny had 25% ozone starts.

Managed to put up a 45CF%

Put up a 1.18 pts/60 5v5



Sutter had 47% ozone starts

Managed to put up a 49.4CF%

Put up a 1.18pts/60 5v5


Sutter doesn't even come close to manny. Sutter is NOT elite

I don't know why your comparing Malhotra?

He was elite for 1 season on the best team statistically since the 70's Canadiens.

Malhotra produced 2g 0a in 35 playoff games in a career as apposed to Sutters 8-4-12 in 33. Jonathon Cheechoo was a 55 goal scorer should we say he's better than Corey Perry?

My opinion is a player that's top 5 at his position is elite......that's fine that you disagree.

 

[WTG]

I don't know why your comparing Malhotra?

He was elite for 1 season on the best team statistically since the 70's Canadiens.

Malhotra produced 2g 0a in 35 playoff games in a career as apposed to Sutters 8-4-12 in 33. Jonathon Cheechoo was a 55 goal scorer should we say he's better than Corey Perry?

My opinion is a player that's top 5 at his position is elite......that's fine that you disagree.

You keep throwing out the word elite.

I'm giving you a player that put up a elite season.



If Sutter can come anywhere close to what Manny did in 10-11 I will call him elite.

Right now there is little to differentiate Sutter from Richardson. He is average till proven otherwise.

 

[Verviticus]

im a potential #2 centre. give me a contract. wont even take a pick

 

[thefeebster]

Sutter has no elite qualities, IMO, and is not an elite 3C. He has not shown that level at all in his career, I'm not quite sure how this adjective has been linked to Sutter. The word elite and Brandon Sutter do not belong in the same sentence.

 

[Verviticus]

elite offensive depressant

 

[Wilch]

elite offensive depressant

Elite cap space eater.

 

[tc 23]

Elite cap space eater.

Elite foundational meme