Canucks Managerial Thread II

[Cupless44]

I think most people would concede "good team" it's "powerhouse" that people are rightfully arguing.
---
The question is -can a GM take a good team, 'bleed value' and make 'atrocious talent evaluations' and still end up with a good team?

Exactly. Thank you.

All of these most recent comments came from the post that erroneously claimed that Jim Benning inherited "a powerhouse" to work with.

I know you guys hate Benning but please, let's keep it real.

 

[Ryp37]

Walking onto a team with lots of cap space and signing a free agent who wants to play here is apparently a feat nowadays, Good job Jim

 

[me2]

I am not being ridiculous at all and I completely do not agree with you.

The team had a good run culminating in 2011, another good regular season in 2012 but you could see the weakness's and the team was completely manhandled in the playoffs. It was no longer good enough to win a playoff series against the best teams in the Western Conference. Tell yourself what ever you want but the results dont lie.

Gillis failed to add new pieces necessary to help the Sedins. Benning inherited a still decent team but one with apparent weakness's and one whose 3rd best player wanted out and wanted to be traded to one team.

I am not discounting the success the team had. It was a good ride, we all enjoyed it, but it was time to retool. The way the Canucks were bounced out of the first round of the playoffs with ease in 2012 and 2013 made it clear the team as it was was no longer a cup contender. Nothing since has altered that reality.

Thst team Benning inherited just scored 101 points, 2nd division, 5th in west, 8th in the league. Quality prospects/young players, great picks, lots of cap space. I doubt replacing Garrison with Sbisa or Kesler with Bonino were the success makers.

 

[arttk]

And the 2 previous years where they went 1-8 in the playoffs?

That to you is a powerhouse?

There is a difference a playoff team and a **** ass team.

For all those claiming, omg Benning took a bottom team into the playoffs, that is what I am arguing against.

We have always been a playoff team. Last year was just a return to what we have been for the past N years. A year where everything that can go wrong went wrong doesn't change that. To claim Benning restored us is a simple exaggeration.

 

[Cupless44]

Thst team Benning inherited just scored 101 points, 2nd division, 5th in west, 8th in the league. Quality prospects/young players, great picks, lots of cap space. I doubt replacing Garrison with Sbisa or Kesler with Bonino were the success makers.

That's nice. And what were their chances of winning a series against Anaheim or Chicago, or pretty much anyone in the western conference?

 

[arttk]

I think most people would concede "good team" it's "powerhouse" that people are rightfully arguing.
---
The question is -can a GM take a good team, 'bleed value' and make 'atrocious talent evaluations' and still end up with a good team?

Because Sedins. Until we find somebody to replace them, our success will be directly related to their performance.

Honestly if it was Miller in net for the reminder for the season, we would've been out.

 

[NoShowWilly]

Thst team Benning inherited just scored 101 points, 2nd division, 5th in west, 8th in the league. Quality prospects/young players, great picks, lots of cap space. I doubt replacing Garrison with Sbisa or Kesler with Bonino were the success makers.

1. The health of the Sedin brothers
2. the abundance of cap space to go do whatever with. It cannot be understated how having capspace makes a difference to a team
3. Signing Vrbata
4. Bo Horvat being able to hold his own.
5. Roster depth at centre, defense, and goaltending last year. None of it was great but it was sustainable when injuries occurred.

 

[Cupless44]

What does this have to do with anything? Your talking out your ass like Ace Ventura

Benning thinks his team can do what your talking about

What it means is that despite a nice bounce back season of 101 points they are still nowhere close to the top rung of western conference teams and truly competing for a cup or even having some success in the playoffs.

No different since 2013. The team needs to be rebuilt to be a true contender.

Where Benning and Linden truly believe the development of their team is at behind closed doors might be different than what they put out for public consumption while trying to sell tickets. This is a business.

Benning wants the team to be competitive of course but his top priority is drafting and developing the next wave of players that can be a top 4 team in the west. This team no longer can.

Aside from the Sedins there isnt much. There is a void of talent in the 24-30 range when players are in their prime. The result of Gillis not adding good young talent to the Sedins for too many years. Finally after 7 years of drafting he added Horvat but too little too late. Even that cost one of the best 5 goalies in the NHL.

 

[Cupless44]

There is a difference a playoff team and a **** ass team.

For all those claiming, omg Benning took a bottom team into the playoffs, that is what I am arguing against.

We have always been a playoff team. Last year was just a return to what we have been for the past N years. A year where everything that can go wrong went wrong doesn't change that. To claim Benning restored us is a simple exaggeration.

You never heard that from me. I agree, last years bounce back was mostly due to a case of a group of decent players having a better year. Well maybe Benning hired a better coach that Gillis's last coach.

However, the bounce back of the same players does not change the fact that I have been stating that this team is not good enough to truly compete with the top 4 teams in the west. That was true before Benning got here. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in delusion and simply not watching the results on the ice.

 

[vanuck]

Because it's all that they have left. It's no coincidence it's always the same people doing it. Then again this post is doing the same thing, I suppose. At least I include reality in my posts, so that's nice.

Your posts at least don't have little insults stitched into sentences here and there. And yeah, it's very telling about what a certain side has to say.

 

[Hit the post]

Finally after 7 years of drafting he added Horvat but too little too late. Even that cost one of the best 5 goalies in the NHL.

That's OK, Benning addressed that by locking in a former Vezina trophy winner.

Finally after 7 years of drafting he added Horvat but too little too late.

Who's our best defenseman? Who played arguable BETTER than the $6 million dollar man in net? Who's the backup goalie this season?

Could our scouting staff be better (takes a look in Delorme's direction and groans - a guy that Benning still employs as well)? Of course, but don't make it appear that Horvat is the only prospect that Gillis brought in.

 

[Cupless44]

That's OK, Benning addressed that by locking in a former Vezina trophy winner.


Who's our best defenseman? Who played arguable BETTER than the $6 million dollar man in net? Who's the backup goalie this season?

Could our scouting staff be better (takes a look in Delorme's direction and groans - a guy that Benning still employs)? Of course, but don't make it appear that Horvat is the only prospect that Gillis brought in.

The bolded comment really adds nothing constructive or relevant. I am talking about Gillis's inability to draft talent to add to the core to keep it at the top of the conference. Not sure what bringing up a Benning free agent signing you don't like has anything to do with who Gillis drafted or that he traded Schneider to acquire Horvat.

And I am not making it appear like Gillis drafted no prospects at all. I like Horvat, Hutton looks promising. I like Gaunce etc. The problem is and what you are missing is that he whiffed for the first 4-5 years of drafting. Those players would now be in the 23 to 27 range and there would ideally be some skilled regulars in the line-up to aid the Sedins and keep the team at the top of the conference where they no longer are.

Now it is exciting and encouraging that Gillis last draft and early looks of Benning's drafts have some good young prospects coming but there is a gap now and the team requires a more complete rebuild now.

 

[arttk]

You never heard that from me. I agree, last years bounce back was mostly due to a case of a group of decent players having a better year. Well maybe Benning hired a better coach that Gillis's last coach.

However, the bounce back of the same players does not change the fact that I have been stating that this team is not good enough to truly compete with the top 4 teams in the west. That was true before Benning got here. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in delusion and simply not watching the results on the ice.

Well considering rumors has it that MG wanted Stevens and Aquaman and his mom wanted Torts...

What we are seeing now is mostly MG's kids coming through. Benning and his fill the gap strategy has mostly been a failure.
We won't feel the pain of Benning giving away a whole draft of picks until 3 years or more later. It will hurt especially with the over priced contracts Benming has been signing. Right now we are still living off the cheap contracts MG/Gilman signed.

 

[Cupless44]

Well considering rumors has it that MG wanted Stevens and Aquaman and his mom wanted Torts...

What we are seeing now is mostly MG's kids coming through. Benning and his fill the gap strategy has mostly been a failure.
We won't feel the pain of Benning giving away a whole draft of picks until 3 years or more later. It will hurt especially with the over priced contracts Benming has been signing. Right now we are still living off the cheap contracts MG/Gilman signed.

Yes and suffering from the void of 23-27 year old good players on the team due to Gillis trading away many picks and whiffing in his first 4-5 years of drafting.

You are right that Benning's fill the gap strategy hasnt been all sucessful. Hopefully for all of us Sven will pan out. But the very reason Benning adopted this strategy I covered in the paragraph above and my previous post.

 

[NoShowWilly]

Yes and suffering from the void of 23-27 year old good players on the team due to Gillis trading away many picks and whiffing in his first 4-5 years of drafting.

You are right that Benning's fill the gap strategy hasnt been all sucessful. Hopefully for all of us Sven will pan out. But the very reason Benning adopted this strategy I covered in the paragraph above and my previous post.

Benning also needs to be making selections and is giving up too many picks.

He touts himself as a scout first and foremost. Targeting waiver eligible "nhl ready" prospects is a poor way to fill a gap and assumes way too much risk.

 

[Intangibos]

Yes and suffering from the void of 23-27 year old good players on the team due to Gillis trading away many picks and whiffing in his first 4-5 years of drafting.

You are right that Benning's fill the gap strategy hasnt been all sucessful. Hopefully for all of us Sven will pan out. But the very reason Benning adopted this strategy I covered in the paragraph above and my previous post.

So Lapierre and Higgins were 'whiffs'? He traded picks to make this team more competitive when we were competing for a cup. Welcome to every cup contending team ever. Without making moves like that we don't even make it to the finals, let alone game 7. Some of Gillis' acquisitions were huge. And to make up for the draft picks he had to move to round out the team with those guys, he signed players like Lack and Tanev through free agency.

As for the guy talking about Schroeder, it was a few pages back and I'm not going to quote everyone, but 8 points in 25 games is the same pace as 24 points in 75 games. On top of that, Schroeder didn't get to play with the Sedins for 20 games on the PP like Vey did. Do you think that didn't massively inflate Vey's point totals? On top of that Schroeder has a cheaper contract and is better defensively. I'm not saying Schroeder is a good player, I'm not even saying he's NHL caliber, but he is objectively a better player than Vey at both ends of the ice.

 

[Cupless44]

Benning also needs to be making selections and is giving up too many picks.

He touts himself as a scout first and foremost. Targeting waiver eligible "nhl ready" prospects is a poor way to fill a gap and assumes way too much risk.

I agree I don't want to see too much more of this. Clendening move was bad and I really have to question what the pro scouts saw in him. His skating alone was awful.

On the brighter side I have hopes for Baertschi and Pedan

 

[Verviticus]

That's nice. And what were their chances of winning a series against Anaheim or Chicago, or pretty much anyone in the western conference?

i dunno, but they got worse and will continue to do so as long as benning's here

 

[me2]

That's nice. And what were their chances of winning a series against Anaheim or Chicago, or pretty much anyone in the western conference?

Better than with Sbisa and Bonino?

 

[Aphid Attraction]

Thst team Benning inherited just scored 101 points, 2nd division, 5th in west, 8th in the league. Quality prospects/young players, great picks, lots of cap space. I doubt replacing Garrison with Sbisa or Kesler with Bonino were the success makers.

I remember that summer... Not many others thought we would make the playoffs... Has the same kinda fell as this last summer

 

[Cupless44]

So Lapierre and Higgins were 'whiffs'? He traded picks to make this team more competitive when we were competing for a cup. Welcome to every cup contending team ever. Without making moves like that we don't even make it to the finals, let alone game 7. Some of Gillis' acquisitions were huge. And to make up for the draft picks he had to move to round out the team with those guys, he signed players like Lack and Tanev through free agency.

As for the guy talking about Schroeder, it was a few pages back and I'm not going to quote everyone, but 8 points in 25 games is the same pace as 24 points in 75 games. On top of that, Schroeder didn't get to play with the Sedins for 20 games on the PP like Vey did. Do you think that didn't massively inflate Vey's point totals? On top of that Schroeder has a cheaper contract and is better defensively. I'm not saying Schroeder is a good player, I'm not even saying he's NHL caliber, but he is objectively a better player than Vey at both ends of the ice.

I understand trading some picks for cup contending. I do understand the concept of being a buyer at the deadline.

But by whiffs I am referring to Gillis's drafting. Do you think not adding one single roster player to the Canucks lineup in his first 5 drafts is acceptable?

The one exception is Hodgson who did play some games but that doesnt count because he is a bust and did not add a piece to the core or remain with the team.

 

[Cupless44]

Better than with Sbisa and Bonino?

I would say no. With the previous group including Kesler, they were 1-8 in their last 2 trips to the playoffs in series that were more one sided than the Calgary series.

 

[me2]

I understand trading some picks for cup contending. I do understand the concept of being a buyer at the deadline.

But by whiffs I am referring to Gillis's drafting. Do you think not adding one single roster player to the Canucks lineup in his first 5 drafts is acceptable?

The one exception is Hodgson who did play some games but that doesnt count because he is a bust and did not add a piece to the core or remain with the team.

Of course Delorme ****ed the team. Most people accept that. Crawford was doing very nicely though, Gillis would have added just a fat a haul ass Benning in the 14 draft if he had still been here. Danielle for Gillis he wasn't supposed to finish up after that draft, would have taken all the wind out of the haters.

 

[Hit the post]

I would say no. With the previous group including Kesler, they were 1-8 in their last 2 trips to the playoffs in series that were more one sided than the Calgary series.

To be fair, you're leaving out in one of those two playoff series mentioned where the Kings rolled over *EVERYONE* that year in the post-season.

 

[Cupless44]

i dunno, but they got worse and will continue to do so as long as benning's here

I think that is far from conclusive. For all the freaking out on here about Benning's veteran moves it is only really about the next wave. Horvat, Virtanen, McCann, Boeser, Demko, Hutton etc.

That is what really matters and will determine if and when this team contends again. On that note I am more confident in Benning's drafting than his predacessor.

NHL, NFL, doesnt matter which, drafting is how you win championships.