Canucks Managerial Thread II

[Ainec]

funny enough I liked the Dorsett for a 3rd

Prust and Dorsett are great 4th liners is all I can say

 

[Bleach Clean]

i'm just not sure how the trade could have been done better outside of pure fantasy scenarios.

Keep him and trade him at the deadline?

 

[timorousme]

Keep him and trade him at the deadline?

and create another messy loungo situation?

 

[Hit the post]

and create another messy loungo situation?

Didn't seem to bother Benning when he tried to obtain Lucic (re: Miller).

(that is if you're referring to locker room distractions)

 

[Ainec]

I can't imagine getting the 10th overall from Anaheim or targeting Theodore would cause Murray to hang up for Kesler

He didn't even try. If there was no chance of that happening at the time then obviously Kesler and Murray broke league rules and talked in detail. You sit his ass out if that's the case and call Anaheim's bluff

 

[CCF]

Other than signing Vrbata has this group made a move where we didn't bleed assets? I don't necessarily take a lot of issue with the players brought in, but rather, the price we have paid again and again to bring them in.

 

[arttk]

I can handle the idea of re-allocating the cap space spent on the blueline (particularly on "left side D"). It's not so much hating the return (not that it was great by any means) - but turning around and handing that cap space to an inferior player - in every way except "meat and tatters" (who ALSO is a left side D) is rediculous.


We'll have to agree to disagree.

Garrison was handled in the worst way possible.

If you want to trade a guy with a NTC, ask first. Benning worked out a trade with St.louis without asking Garrison and when Garrison rejected it, he had to scramble for an offer from the Tampa.

Which is stupid anyway, if you don't get value, don't insist on trading the guy. To make it worst, he targeted Sbisa to replace Garrison.

 

[timorousme]

I can't imagine getting the 10th overall from Anaheim or targeting Theodore would cause Murray to hang up for Kesler

He didn't even try.

you don't...you're not privy to any of that. you're holding him to hypotheticals that you can't determine have a basis in reality.

 

[Bleach Clean]

and create another messy loungo situation?

For a better return? Absolutely. The return stays with you for a lot longer than any short term drama does.

Kesler was this team's best trade chip.

 

[Hit the post]

For a better return? Absolutely. The return stays with you for a lot longer than any short term drama does.

Kesler was this team's best trade chip.

In any event, Kesler values "$$$$" - he knows the best way he can get a "retirement contract" is to continue to work his butt off (like he had always done as a Canuck).

 

[arttk]

For a better return? Absolutely. The return stays with you for a lot longer than any short term drama does.

Kesler was this team's best trade chip.

Seriously, it was the off season, how much drama would there be when there is nobody in town.

 

[MS]

Benning's problem on the Kesler trade wasn't the situation, it was that his poor talent evaluation skills led him to target the complete wrong players. And that he has zero negotiating skills.

 

[Ryp37]

Garrison was handled in the worst way possible.

If you want to trade a guy with a NTC, ask first. Benning worked out a trade with St.louis without asking Garrison and when Garrison rejected it, he had to scramble for an offer from the Tampa.

Which is stupid anyway, if you don't get value, don't insist on trading the guy. To make it worst, he targeted Sbisa to replace Garrison.

And if you watch the Kesler trade video he would only move Garrison if he got a D back from Anaheim.

He probably thought he was slick getting a 24 year old "classic D" to replace Garry

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I can handle the idea of re-allocating the cap space spent on the blueline (particularly on "left side D"). It's not so much hating the return (not that it was great by any means) - but turning around and handing that cap space to an inferior player - in every way except "meat and tatters" (who ALSO is a left side D) is rediculous.


We'll have to agree to disagree.

What irked me about the Garrison trade is it happened to facilitate signing Ehrhoff. Benning merely assumed he had him convinced, and when that fell through, he had no contingency plan, which has become a stable of his decision making.

 

[Ainec]

wait what? We were going to sign Ehrhoff? never heard about this

 

[VanillaCoke]

Benning's problem on the Kesler trade wasn't the situation, it was that his poor talent evaluation skills led him to target the complete wrong players. And that he has zero negotiating skills.

Perrault looks damn good in Winnipeg....

 

[Ernie]

Yeah, where is the info that Benning was even in discussions with Ehrhoff?

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

wait what? We were going to sign Ehrhoff? never heard about this

Yep. We were in talks with his agent for a while, but he opted for Pittsburgh. That's partly why we dumped Garrison for nothing; cap space. Ironically, Ehrhoff looks washed up, while Garrison has been stellar for Tampa. So no matter how you sliced it, this was going to look bad on Benning.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Yeah, where is the info that Benning was even in discussions with Ehrhoff?

Pretty sure TSN made mention of it on their summer updates. Just rumors though, so talk that as you will.

 

[Chubros]

Keep him and trade him at the deadline?

- Keeping a player that didn't want to be there would have been a huge distraction and detrimental to the team. I doubt they would have made the playoffs if they had kept Kesler, which would have delayed the necessary line-up makeover.

- Kesler may not have even reported to camp had he not been traded. His agent reportedly was phoning Benning on a daily basis screaming for him to be traded.

- And of course there is the risk of injury to Kesler (if he in fact decided to report to camp and play for the team), which would have meant we got nothing at the deadline.

- And at that point he would have been only a few months removed from free agency, so I don't even think it is a given we would have gotten more at that point.

- Assuming a 1st round pick would still have been part of the deal, we'd have been drafting 1 year later, which is a negative as it would put the prospect re-stocking plan 1 year behind schedule.

The return (1st rounder, serviceable C, cap dump/ bottom pairing D) was good for a player one year removed from being a UFA. It should also be considered that there was also a NTC to deal with (I have not seen anything contradicting reports of what was in effect a 2 team list) and a landscape where teams were all facing serious cap constraints.

Before the draft was the right time to pull the trigger and the return was as good as can be expected given the circumstances.

The subsequent decision to extend Sbisa at the dollar amount he received should be criticized separately and should not be included in any analysis of the trade.

 

[tantalum]

Reading the boards today it's pretty clear people need to learn a bit about addiction (and from the main boards what domestic violence is). For addiction things like character and professionalism or lack thereof has nothing to do whether a person has an addiction. I'll leave it at.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Benning's problem on the Kesler trade wasn't the situation, it was that his poor talent evaluation skills led him to target the complete wrong players. And that he has zero negotiating skills.

I'm not sure if Bonino was completely the wrong target. As a roster piece, they could have done a lot worse, but he should have been the only roster piece (if that). The rest should have been futures.

There was speculated package at the deadline (Gillis) was Sutter, 1st + Despres. Not so far off.

Negotiating skills, yes, they are abysmal. Talent evaluation? Definitely for Sbisa (100%), but Bonino wasn't bad.

 

[arttk]

I'm not sure if Bonino was completely the wrong target. As a roster piece, they could have done a lot worse, but he should have been the only roster piece (if that). The rest should have been futures.

There was speculated package at the deadline (Gillis) was Sutter, 1st + Despres. Not so far off.

Negotiating skills, yes, they are abysmal. Talent evaluation? Definitely for Sbisa (100%), but Bonino wasn't bad.

Bonino with his contract is actually not a bad target. Problem is they really should've done a better job scouting and understanding who they are targeting. I mean they traded away Bonino one year after because he wasn't the player they thought they were getting.
Kesler could've been a trade that sets us up for the next decade.

 

[Bleach Clean]

- Keeping a player that didn't want to be there would have been a huge distraction and detrimental to the team. I doubt they would have made the playoffs if they had kept Kesler, which would have delayed the necessary line-up makeover.

- Kesler may not have even reported to camp had he not been traded. His agent reportedly was phoning Benning on a daily basis screaming for him to be traded.

- And of course there is the risk of injury to Kesler (if he in fact decided to report to camp and play for the team), which would have meant we got nothing at the deadline.

1. Can't speak to what the distraction would have done for on ice performance... no one can.

2. Kesler not reporting to camp would have made it harder for him to be dealt, which doesn't serve Kesler.

3. Injury is always a risk when a GM has to be patient...

- And at that point he would have been only a few months removed from free agency, so I don't even think it is a given we would have gotten more at that point.

- Assuming a 1st round pick would still have been part of the deal, we'd have been drafting 1 year later, which is a negative as it would put the prospect re-stocking plan 1 year behind schedule.

The return (1st rounder, serviceable C, cap dump/ bottom pairing D) was good for a player one year removed from being a UFA. It should also be considered that there was also a NTC to deal with (I have not seen anything contradicting reports of what was in effect a 2 team list) and a landscape where teams were all facing serious cap constraints.

Before the draft was the right time to pull the trigger and the return was as good as can be expected given the circumstances.

The subsequent decision to extend Sbisa at the dollar amount he received should be criticized separately and should not be included in any analysis of the trade.

1. Fair point about him being closer to Free Agency, although some expiring contracts have received a king's ransom at the deadline.

2. A year later yes, but it comes down to the value of the deal on the whole.

3. There was a report after the fact confirming that there was no such restriction by Kesler. Also, the return was not "good".

4. The right time to execute that deal was the 2014 deadline, which didn't happen. After that, it's whenever you can create the best market for your asset, not an arbitrary date in the offseason.

5. Targeting Sbisa alone should be included in the analysis of the trade.

Reading the boards today it's pretty clear people need to learn a bit about addiction (and from the main boards what domestic violence is). For addiction things like character and professionalism or lack thereof has nothing to do whether a person has an addiction. I'll leave it at.

Glad someone said it. Addiction is very much a disease, not a choice. High character, and professional, individuals fall prey to it just the same.

 

[Cupless44]

This forum, and this thread in particular, has become a parody of an internet message board. People turned on Benning from his first day on the job and are bound and determined to be proven "right", even to the point of wishing failure upon the team you supposedly cheer for. Bizarre.

The team had a good season last year, and is younger, faster and more skilled this year. Things aren't that bad, are they?

I mean, Benning has made some very clear mistakes (in my opinion, anyway), but I can't think of a GM who hasn't made a bad trade or a poor signing. When you're attempting to turn over an entire roster, there are going to be missteps. Maybe instead of attempting to discredit every single thing this administration does, we could focus on the overall direction of the team. I think things are looking up, myself.

I think some if you are in it so deep you can't now turn back, so we see this doubling down of personal insults toward Benning, and they players he's acquired, when things might start to look a little positive. The forum was toxic in the summer and seems not to have gotten any better.

It's too bad, because I used to enjoy reading these boards, engaging in debate with other posters, and reading the opinions of the very knowledgeable posters here. These days, though, the forum has become nothing but a forum for people to bash the GM, the coach, the president, and belittle and mock every thing they do or say.

I wonder, honestly, if even a Stanley Cup would be enough to change the minds of some of you. Would we spend thousands of pages mocking the parade route?

Absolutely couldn't agree with you more. The negativity has such momentum now on here it doesn't seem to stop.

Great post