Canucks Management and Ownership Thread v30.0 (Post #186)

[WTG]

Benning on 1040 this morning.

- on full rebuild: We have existing player contracts that we inherited. Sedins still our best players.

Still blaming Gillis, like it's 2014

Too many existing contracts so we couldn't sign another dorsett and Sbisa. Damn it Gillis, we were 1 Dorsett away from being competitive.

 

[MS]

Still blaming Gillis, like it's 2014

It's nuts. He has 4 contracts he inherited : the Sedins (who he constantly compliments and calls their best players), Edler, and 1 year left on Alex Burrows.

How is this preventing us from rebuilding?

The team we played last night is in the 3rd year of a full rebuild despite having long-term franchise icon Shane Doan still on board, and other long-term contracts to veterans like Mike Smith. How is that even possible, in Benning's mind?

And of course, it's doubly nuts when you look at the contracts to 30+ guys like Eriksson/Miller/Dorsett that Benning has handed out.

 

[Cupless44]

Still blaming Gillis, like it's 2014

Too many existing contracts so I couldn't sign another dorsett and Sbisa. Damn it Gillis, we were 1 Dorsett away from being competitive.

Or the 6 year 36 million dollar anchor that is Eriksson

 

[Hit the post]

Or the 6 year 36 million dollar anchor that is Eriksson

I honestly thought Ericsson would be more than solid for at least a few years before the ugly part of the contract reared its head.

 

[WTG]

It's nuts. He has 4 contracts he inherited : the Sedins (who he constantly compliments and calls their best players), Edler, and 1 year left on Alex Burrows.

How is this preventing us from rebuilding?

The team we played last night is in the 3rd year of a full rebuild despite having long-term franchise icon Shane Doan still on board, and other long-term contracts to veterans like Mike Smith. How is that even possible, in Benning's mind?

And of course, it's doubly nuts when you look at the contracts to 30+ guys like Eriksson/Miller/Dorsett that Benning has handed out.

Well at least they are getting some heat now. So much so they have to revert to weak ass excuses. Which is a good indicator of how much heat they are getting.

Narratives switching over.

 

[Cupless44]

I honestly thought Ericsson would be more than solid for at least a few years before the ugly part of the contract reared its head.

Yeah no ****. 20 games in is more than depressing.

Soft on the puck. Wife named him Bozo in our house. Goofy looking hair sticking out of his helmut, he looks like a clown.. Empty look on his face on the bench. 20 games in and I want him off the team like a Bartkowski, Sbisa or Weber.

 

[Alan Jackson]

It's nuts. He has 4 contracts he inherited : the Sedins (who he constantly compliments and calls their best players), Edler, and 1 year left on Alex Burrows.

How is this preventing us from rebuilding?

The team we played last night is in the 3rd year of a full rebuild despite having long-term franchise icon Shane Doan still on board, and other long-term contracts to veterans like Mike Smith. How is that even possible, in Benning's mind?

And of course, it's doubly nuts when you look at the contracts to 30+ guys like Eriksson/Miller/Dorsett that Benning has handed out.

He might mean that players like Sedins prevent a rebuild because they're such good players, but even then, we managed a 3rd worst finish last season and might be worse this season.

I've been resistant to a rebuild for a long time, because I have no interest in watching a losing product for 5 years. It might be now that we have no choice. It looks like it's going to happen anyway, regardless of Benning trying to "compete".

 

[PM]

Yeah no ****. 20 games in is more than depressing.

Soft on the puck. Wife named him Bozo in our house. Goofy looking hair sticking out of his helmut, he looks like a clown.. Empty look on his face on the bench. 20 games in and I want him off the team like a Bartkowski, Sbisa or Weber.

He does kind of have a Sideshow Bob thing going on doesn't he. This was one of the few Benning moves I didn't instantly hate and thought at least half of the term would be alright to good. Shame on me.

 

[MS]

He might mean that players like Sedins prevent a rebuild because they're such good players, but even then, we managed a 3rd worst finish last season and might be worse this season.

I've been resistant to a rebuild for a long time, because I have no interest in watching a losing product for 5 years. It might be now that we have no choice. It looks like it's going to happen anyway, regardless of Benning trying to "compete".

I was never a 'rebuild' guy. I felt that with competent management we could retool and stay competitive.

But it has been blatantly obvious since the middle of last year that this team is not longer able to re-tool, and needs a complete rebuild. It's a complete mess. And having the Sedins on the roster is clearly not preventing us from sucking any more than Doan has prevented the Coyotes from sucking.

To try and throw not rebuilding on the Sedins and 'Gillis contracts' is a pathetically lame excuse.

We have no choice but to rebuild. This team is absolutely horrible while spending to the cap. We have few young players of any real quality. There is no magic wand that anyone can wave to make this team suddenly successful in the next 1-2 years.

 

[MS]

He does kind of have a Sideshow Bob thing going on doesn't he. This was one of the few Benning moves I didn't instantly hate and thought at least half of the term would be alright to good. Shame on me.

I hated the move but I liked the player and thought he'd be a legitimate asset for the first 2-3 years of the deal. He hasn't looked good at all.

That said, he's being horribly mis-used by Willie. They abandoned the Sedin thing after literally 5 games, which was insane, and the fact he isn't on the #1 PP unit ahead of Brandon Sutter is mind-numbing. Poor guy must wonder what he's signed up for when he's been skating around on a line with Derek Dorsett and Markus Granlund the past couple nights.

 

[arttk]

I hated the move but I liked the player and thought he'd be a legitimate asset for the first 2-3 years of the deal. He hasn't looked good at all.

That said, he's being horribly mis-used by Willie. They abandoned the Sedin thing after literally 5 games, which was insane, and the fact he isn't on the #1 PP unit ahead of Brandon Sutter is mind-numbing. Poor guy must wonder what he's signed up for when he's been skating around on a line with Derek Dorsett and Markus Granlund the past couple nights.

And people wondered why Vrbata soured after 1 season.

 

[Alan Jackson]

I was never a 'rebuild' guy. I felt that with competent management we could retool and stay competitive.

But it has been blatantly obvious since the middle of last year that this team is not longer able to re-tool, and needs a complete rebuild. It's a complete mess. And having the Sedins on the roster is clearly not preventing us from sucking any more than Doan has prevented the Coyotes from sucking.

To try and throw not rebuilding on the Sedins and 'Gillis contracts' is a pathetically lame excuse.

We have no choice but to rebuild. This team is absolutely horrible while spending to the cap. We have few young players of any real quality. There is no magic wand that anyone can wave to make this team suddenly successful in the next 1-2 years.

I think, in theory, a retool is possible. I hate the idea of gutting the team and being intentionally awful. I think it goes against everything sports is supposed to be about.

Obviously, Benning's execution has been awful.

I'm still naïve (or dumb) enough to think that even now, if everything went perfectly, you could turn things around sooner than later, but that prospect looks bleaker by the day.

And again, it may be that the draftists get what they want, despite Benning's best intentions.

 

[F A N]

It's nuts. He has 4 contracts he inherited : the Sedins (who he constantly compliments and calls their best players), Edler, and 1 year left on Alex Burrows.

How is this preventing us from rebuilding?

But management came onboard 3 summers ago. At that time, there were more than 4 contracts inherited. Clearly, the team had enough to get back to the playoffs with a few tweaks. So they went ahead with the plan to rebuild on the fly and stuck with it. Maybe another last place or near last place finish would lead to a change of plans. Sometimes it's better to stick with the long term plan you instituted and sometimes it's better to switch course after a failed or successful season.

Of course, the biggest problem is that the players expected to fill the gap or develop into our next core either didn't develop or aren't developing fast enough.

 

[mathonwy]

He does kind of have a Sideshow Bob thing going on doesn't he. This was one of the few Benning moves I didn't instantly hate and thought at least half of the term would be alright to good. Shame on me.

Welp... I was certainly one of the more vocal supporters of Eriksson... shameX2 on me?

Guy barely looks like a top 6 player right now.

I still maintain the strategy of getting a top 3 winger was sound.

Execution... as per usual... fail.

 

[MS]

And people wondered why Vrbata soured after 1 season.

Yup.

How do you have 20+ games of patience with Brandon Sutter on the #1 PP unit but 5 games of patience for your $36 million signing with the Sedins, a role he was specifically acquired for? It's insane.

 

[Oliewud]

ALS aka louie eriks disease

 

[arttk]

Yup.

How do you have 20+ games of patience with Brandon Sutter on the #1 PP unit but 5 games of patience for your $36 million signing with the Sedins, a role he was specifically acquired for? It's insane.

Because they called him foundational and it's obvious their ego is more important than doing what is best for the team.

 

[PM]

And people wondered why Vrbata soured after 1 season.

It is eerily similar isn't it. And look at Vrbata now. I wouldn't mind seeing Burr back with the Sedins for a bit to be honest. He's looked like one of our best players lately and it's probably his last season with us. Would be nice to see the old line reunited even just for a little bit.

 

[MS]

I think, in theory, a retool is possible. I hate the idea of gutting the team and being intentionally awful. I think it goes against everything sports is supposed to be about.

Obviously, Benning's execution has been awful.

I'm still naïve (or dumb) enough to think that even now, if everything went perfectly, you could turn things around sooner than later, but that prospect looks bleaker by the day.

And again, it may be that the draftists get what they want, despite Benning's best intentions.

I agree with the bolded. I hate the current lottery system because I don't believe there should ever be a situation where losing is a better strategy than winning or where a fan should be cheering for his team to lose. It's disgusting. But that's the nature of the system we have, and frankly we aren't going to be any worse than this if we're doing a complete tank/rebuild. This team is terrible.

Things have gotten so awful there is really no choice but to blow things up entirely and start from scratch. And their excuses against it are pathetic.

But management came onboard 3 summers ago. At that time, there were more than 4 contracts inherited. Clearly, the team had enough to get back to the playoffs with a few tweaks. So they went ahead with the plan to rebuild on the fly and stuck with it. Maybe another last place or near last place finish would lead to a change of plans. Sometimes it's better to stick with the long term plan you instituted and sometimes it's better to switch course after a failed or successful season.

Of course, the biggest problem is that the players expected to fill the gap or develop into our next core either didn't develop or aren't developing fast enough.

It isn't 3 summers ago anymore. This is our 2nd season of being one of the worst teams in the NHL while spending to the cap. To not be able to acknowledge what is happening and the need for a change in direction is nothing but incompetence.

 

[MS]

Because they called him foundational and it's obvious their ego is more important than doing what is best for the team.

But they obviously consider Eriksson foundational as well.

It's just yet another sign of how none of Jimbo/Trevor/Willie are on the same page.

It is eerily similar isn't it. And look at Vrbata now. I wouldn't mind seeing Burr back with the Sedins for a bit to be honest. He's looked like one of our best players lately and it's probably his last season with us. Would be nice to see the old line reunited even just for a little bit.

Even if they want to use Sutter with the Sedins at ES, it should just be dead obvious to put Eriksson with Horvat. It's like Willie coaches to score as little as possible.

 

[mathonwy]

Yup.

How do you have 20+ games of patience with Brandon Sutter on the #1 PP unit but 5 games of patience for your $36 million signing with the Sedins, a role he was specifically acquired for? It's insane.

WD is in tough spot with Eriksson IMO.

Eriksson will never have the speed that Sutter and Hansen does so I actually see Eriksson dragging the Sedins down.

Eriksson is not fast enough to effectively forecheck and he's not fast enough to force turnovers.

Riding 3rd wheel with Bae and Bo is probably the best deployment.

 

[arttk]

But they obviously consider Eriksson foundational as well.

It's just yet another sign of how none of Jimbo/Trevor/Willie are on the same page.



Even if they want to use Sutter with the Sedins at ES, it should just be dead obvious to put Eriksson with Horvat. It's like Willie coaches to score as little as possible.

I think the difference is that for Sutter, they paid a big price to get him and they were going against common knowledge with his acquisition. They were betting that they are right and everyone is wrong about Sutter being a 3rd liner.

Eriksson's signing is different in that sense. Everyone thinks of him as a top6 guy, there is nothing to prove other than how long before he declines.

 

[MS]

WD is in tough spot with Eriksson IMO.

Eriksson will never have the speed that Sutter and Hansen does so I actually see Eriksson dragging the Sedins down.

Eriksson is not fast enough to effectively forecheck and he's not fast enough to force turnovers.

Riding 3rd wheel with Bae and Bo is probably the best deployment.

If you spend $36 million on a guy to fill that role, you have to give it more than 5 games.

And if it is the case that he can't play there, it's just another case of awful pro scouting.

 

[mathonwy]

If you spend $36 million on a guy to fill that role, you have to give it more than 5 games.

And if it is the case that he can't play there, it's just another case of awful pro scouting.

WD doesn't care about 36M. WD cares about being employed.

WD has already given 23% of all ice time to this line with no results. If the team was winning because of secondary scoring then IMO, you'd have a legitimate beef. But it's not and WD is on the hot seat so blend it up however you can.

 

[mathonwy]

Based on the way things are going, I actually think we have Eriksson's usefulness gradient reversed.

So far, WD hasn't been able to find a line combination that works to allow Eriksson to be productive. But, this might change 2 or 3 years down the road when, gods willing, Jake matures into a real NHL player, Boeser comes on board and Bo keeps getting better.

So Eriksson might start off bad and end up playing well as our young players start getting older and better.

I actually think this might be what happens.