Value of: Canucks-Flyers: Sean Couturier to Vancouver

[Stizzle]

I'm not even going to bother reading this thread because Couturier is pretty much untouchable. He's awesome.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

The three most common were Raffl [380], Simmonds [340] and Read [290], but he also had a revolving door with Schenn, Gagner and Voracek [during that initial 16 game struggle] who all logged ~200 minutes on his wings.

It's not evident if all you care to look at is counting stats, but Couturier's presence is sorely missed. He drives play about as well as anyone on this team outside of Voracek and Konecny's production has suffered in his absence.

IMHO anytime you list Wayne Simmonds as one of the top 3 most common linemates you've eclipsed the whole Vancouver wing depth save for Daniel Sedin. This isn't really helping the cause either as Simmonds is a usual 25-30 goal threat.
I'd like to see Bo and Couts lined up at even's production, I think the gap is a lot closer than Flyers fans will agree too but not so outrageous as most Canuck fans have said. (And I love BoBo, fav Canuck). Really couldn't get any more comparable right now than these two guys.

 

[Mkoll]

I love these threads.

"We want your player but you can't have any of our good prospects!"

"What, you think he's worth that much?"

"Well, we didn't want him anyway. He's terrible and we have a similar player that's younger, cheaper and has far more upside, LOL."

Just about every trade thread ever made.

 

[Brock Radunske]

I think they're both going to be good 2nd line centres.
BH will be better offensively (while still good defensively) and SC will be much better defensively.
Great players to have but both fan bases are getting a little too excited IMO.

 

[Love]

His most common wingers from Behind the Net:

• MICHAELRAFFL 44.6%
• WAYNESIMMONDS 38.8%
• MATTREAD 33.1%
• JAKUBVORACEK 25.7%
• BRAYDENSCHENN 22.5%
• SAMGAGNER 22.4%

It's pretty much a mixed bag as the Flyers shuffled lines pretty frequently last season. You have some really good ones (Simmonds, last year's Schenn, and Voracek). You also have some bad ones (last year's versions of Gagner and Read).

The three most common were Raffl [380], Simmonds [340] and Read [290], but he also had a revolving door with Schenn, Gagner and Voracek [during that initial 16 game struggle] who all logged ~200 minutes on his wings.

It's not evident if all you care to look at is counting stats, but Couturier's presence is sorely missed. He drives play about as well as anyone on this team outside of Voracek and Konecny's production has suffered in his absence.

Im not sure if these lists of Couturier's line mates are supposed to help him in this Horvat/Couturier debate, but Horvat has literally never had any linemate as good as any of the above players Couturier is playing with.

 

[HyPnOtiK]

Yea no, Horvat > Couturier and it'll be that way for the rest of their careers, ones a solid defensively shutdown centre, a 3rd line centre on a great cup contender team, Horvat has 1st line centre up side and is already producing as 2nd line centre and he has a strong two way game. Couturier is a great player and a valuable one, but Horvat is simply better.

Horvat is simply better? Hilarious. Coots is far better

 

[Rebels57]

Horvat + 1st is what it would take (Van obviously declines)

From November through the end of last season, Couturier was basically Bergeron (60 point pace and elite defense)

He was injured early this season so we haven't yet seen if he is the 60 point center he was the last 3/4 of last season or the 40-50 point center. Either way, his Defense is ****ing elite and whatever line he is on outplays the best lines in the NHL because of it.

 

[Rebels57]

Horvat is simply better? Hilarious. Coots is far better

The delusion is strong in this thread lol.

Horvat has never had 1C upside and will never be a 1C. He will make an excellent 2C though. He's just nowhere near Couturier defensively and the small production gap will never make up for that.

 

[NitHeel]

"We want your best guy but we dont want to offer anything of value"

Yeah, definitely not overrated... I guess Sean Couturier is better than Claude Giroux..

Somehow, you've gotten worse in this thread.

 

[Zaddy91]

i have a more fun thread

whos better horvat or couturier

horvat

 

[Zaddy91]

Canucks don't have much to offer the Flyers besides Horvat so what's the point?

horvat has double couturiers points and 3 years younger.

holy **** what terrible evaluation

 

[Juicy Pop]

horvat has double couturiers points and 3 years younger.

holy **** what terrible evaluation

A mirror would do you well.

 

[Zaddy91]

A mirror would do you well.

and u think a minus 30 playing with burrows and dorsett means couturier is better defensively muhahah

 

[NitHeel]

and u think a minus 30 playing with burrows and dorsett means couturier is better defensively muhahah

No, it has more to do with Couturier just being an elite level defensive player.

The Horvat/Couturier tangent is pointless. Couturier fills a vital role on the Flyers and they have nothing close to a replacement for him. He would require an overpayment that would make no sense for Vancouver to meet. The end.

 

[clunk]

TIL the Flyers are the greatest and best team in the world and no player is available unless you vastly overpay.

 

[FrozenSherbet]

Im not sure if these lists of Couturier's line mates are supposed to help him in this Horvat/Couturier debate, but Horvat has literally never had any linemate as good as any of the above players Couturier is playing with.

He asked, so we answered. It had nothing to do with helping Couturier's argument against Horvat. Regarding the blanket statement at the end, both Gagner and Read were liabilities last year. While most of Couturier's linemates were better, those two are exceptions. If you compare Couturier's own linemates last year to his prior seasons, it makes sense why he had such a jump in production. Like Horvat, Couturier used to be saddled with spare parts.

 

[Tripod]

TIL the Flyers are the greatest and best team in the world and no player is available unless you vastly overpay.

No...it's common sense.

We have 2 top 6 centers...and NEED a #3 C. Any thread involving trading Couturier is likely going to be met with a lot of no's.

Again, common sense.

Edit....in today's game, the Flyers #3 and #4 centers have a combined 5 points in 37 games.

 

[Rebels57]

horvat has double couturiers points and 3 years younger.

holy **** what terrible evaluation

Lol.

Let me preface this by saying I really like Horvat and I am glad he is starting to blossom there. Lord knows Vancouver fans need SOMETHING to hold on to right now.

Last season Couturier had 1 less point in 19 less games while being one of the best defensive centers in the NHL. He led the Flyers in Points Per 60 minutes at 1.99 while facing ridiculously difficult competition. Horvat was 1.43 against much easier competition.

There's a reason Scotty Bowman insisted he be included on Team North America for the World Cup and Bo Horvat was never even considered and might not have made a SECOND Team North America.

Unless Horvat becomes a consistent 70 point 1st line Center or dramatically improves his defensive play, he will not be as valuable to a teams success as Couturier.

 

[Starat327]

TIL the Flyers are the greatest and best team in the world and no player is available unless you vastly overpay.

No one had said that at all. Good try though.

However, the flyers are trying to build a great team, and trading one of your top 6 centers when you only have two is kinda counter productive to that.

 

[nuckfan insk]

Horvat + 1st is what it would take (Van obviously declines)

From November through the end of last season, Couturier was basically Bergeron (60 point pace and elite defense)

He was injured early this season so we haven't yet seen if he is the 60 point center he was the last 3/4 of last season or the 40-50 point center. Either way, his Defense is ****ing elite and whatever line he is on outplays the best lines in the NHL because of it.

lol I wouldn't move horvat for couts and a first haha

Everything said about couturier defensively applies to horvat, then add in extra offense.... plus 3 years younger and Rfa control left. I like couturier a lot and mean no disrespect to him but this thread seems a little silly, I'm just waiting for offers of horvat or couturier and a first for JVR and a 2nd

 

[BrindamoursNose]

lol I wouldn't move horvat for couts and a first haha

Everything said about couturier defensively applies to horvat, then add in extra offense.... plus 3 years younger and Rfa control left. I like couturier a lot and mean no disrespect to him but this thread seems a little silly, I'm just waiting for offers of horvat or couturier and a first for JVR and a 2nd

You don't get it.

That statement is all I needed in order to know that.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Brandon Sutter+

Hey guys,

I didn't mean this to turn into a "Bo Horvat vs. Sean Couturier" thread. I think both players are excellent and I want them BOTH on the Canucks.

The reason why I'm interested in that idea of having both Horvat and Couturier on the Canucks, is because it sets the Canucks up down the middle for the next 8-10 years.

While neither Horvat nor Couturier are #1 centers, both have the potential to be very good 2nd line centers (if they aren't already), with a slight chance of being more.

My "vision" of a Horvat-Couturier combo would be them possibly turning into a Bergeon-Krejci combo, or a Rolston-Holik combo from back in the day.

With Horvat and Couturier here, you could then possibly start looking at options to move the twins in the off-season.

As far as what I'd be willing to offer, it would be Brandon Sutter +

 

[Starat327]

Hey guys,

I didn't mean this to turn into a "Bo Horvat vs. Sean Couturier" thread. I think both players are excellent and I want them BOTH on the Canucks.

The reason why I'm interested in that idea of having both Horvat and Couturier on the Canucks, is because it sets the Canucks up down the middle for the next 8-10 years.

While neither Horvat nor Couturier are #1 centers, both have the potential to be very good 2nd line centers (if they aren't already), with a slight chance of being more.

My "vision" of a Horvat-Couturier combo would be them possibly turning into a Bergeon-Krejci combo, or a Rolston-Holik combo from back in the day.

With Horvat and Couturier here, you could then possibly start looking at options to move the twins in the off-season.

As far as what I'd be willing to offer, it would be Brandon Sutter +

Only If the + is Horvat.

 

[Machinehead]

It would be Horvat+

Otherwise there's no reason for the Flyers to be interested.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Hey guys,

I didn't mean this to turn into a "Bo Horvat vs. Sean Couturier" thread. I think both players are excellent and I want them BOTH on the Canucks.

The reason why I'm interested in that idea of having both Horvat and Couturier on the Canucks, is because it sets the Canucks up down the middle for the next 8-10 years.

While neither Horvat nor Couturier are #1 centers, both have the potential to be very good 2nd line centers (if they aren't already), with a slight chance of being more.

My "vision" of a Horvat-Couturier combo would be them possibly turning into a Bergeon-Krejci combo, or a Rolston-Holik combo from back in the day.

With Horvat and Couturier here, you could then possibly start looking at options to move the twins in the off-season.

As far as what I'd be willing to offer, it would be Brandon Sutter +

We understand that logic fully.

The problem is that we have Couturier for the same exact reason, except he's even more important to us than he is to you.

You're looking to get that duo for 8-10 years, whereas we need Couturier to be in the middle with Giroux for as long as he can. If Couturier goes, our center situation is as bad as yours essentially.