Confirmed with Link: Canadiens Will Pick 5th (Hughes Presser in OP) NO POLITICS

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L4br3cqu3

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Is there anyone left who believes we’ll take Michkov?

If Habs brass wants superstar upside, they'll take Michkov.

If they don't want possible drama, they'll pass on him and take a safer one, who's still a top prospect, and hopefully won't reach too much (like for Reinbacher, who's bound to go higher cause he's one of the few good Ds, a RD one to boot, in an exceptional forward group this year)

I know I hope they aim for star power, but I wouldn't mind if they take a 'safer' route with Leonard/Dvorsky, would be impatiently waiting on Hughes explanations, though.
 

BLONG7

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Is there anyone left who believes we’ll take Michkov?
Absolutely everyone on here has a take, but none of us know what HuGo has up their sleeve.
I think for some reason we are trading up...............maybe to 2 ?
We have picks and prospects they would be interested in.................and they are earlier in their rebuild not to mention their fans will be more patient than ours.............

As for Mickov, I think a ton of the chatter is a smokescreen of sorts..............I think there are teams that want him, but are not convinced he is worth taking early in the draft....he could slip...
 

waffledave

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Aug 22, 2004
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Personal loans have nothing to do with the Habs. I doubt collateral would be an issue and it would obviously be a very short term. Enough juice should be able to get it done in Russia. :laugh:

Banks in North America wouldn't give a loan in order to pay off a Russian entity. Not right now anyway.
 

xX SEYF Xx

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I'm not in the Michkov or riot wagon, I believe we walking away with a great player regardless.
But there are too much certainty in both posters sides here
Michkov will have his interviews early next week. What if he says his plan is to come over after 3 years? what if he says he'd love to be drafted by MTL? What if he says he aware of his flaws and willing to work on them?
We dont know
This draft gonna be fun, but this thread isn't lol
 

Rapala

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Mar 29, 2013
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Banks in North America wouldn't give a loan in order to pay off a Russian entity. Not right now anyway.
Exactly that is why I specified in Russia and mentioned juice. Banks aren't the only money lenders it's a market unto itself going back to biblical times. :naughty:

Nobody can dictate the amount of signing bonus we offer right?
 

L4br3cqu3

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I'm not in the Michkov or riot wagon, I believe we walking away with a great player regardless.
But there are too much certainty in both posters sides here
Michkov will have his interviews early next week. What if he says his plan is to come over after 3 years? what if he says he'd love to be drafted by MTL? What if he says he aware of his flaws and willing to work on them?
We dont know
This draft gonna be fun, but this thread isn't lol

Yeah, was kind out of the loop on official things, thought the draft was tomorrow, this thread is tough for anxiety.
 
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Rapala

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Absolutely everyone on here has a take, but none of us know what HuGo has up their sleeve.
I think for some reason we are trading up...............maybe to 2 ?
We have picks and prospects they would be interested in.................and they are earlier in their rebuild not to mention their fans will be more patient than ours.............

As for Mickov, I think a ton of the chatter is a smokescreen of sorts..............I think there are teams that want him, but are not convinced he is worth taking early in the draft....he could slip...
I would love to get Fantilli I have no doubts about the player and person whatsoever.
 
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WeThreeKings

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Well then we'd finally have a reason as to why we'd might pass. The question I am posing, is before knowing this, why would we pass? Because up until now, none of his detractors have explained why he shouldn't be the obvious choice.

No one here is a detractor on Matvei Michkov.. I have not seen one person say that the Montreal Canadiens should not pick Matvei Michkov under no circumstances.

Bob McKenzie:
"He’s under contract to a KHL team (SKA St. Petersburg) for three more seasons and unless accommodations are reached between his NHL club and his KHL team, Michkov is not expected to play in the NHL any earlier than the fall of 2026. Might he sign an extension in Russia? Who knows?"

Kent Hughes himself when asked about Michkov also mentioned the possibility that he signs an extension in Russia. That means there is verifiable risk amongst NHL executives, teams, scouts and media members that Michkov may not simply cross over in 3 years and that he may actually extend longer in the KHL.

Bob McKenzie:
"Because Michkov is a Russian, and because Russia waged war on Ukraine that has resulted in both real-world and hockey-world sanctions and consequences against Russia, NHL GMs, executives and team head scouts have not been able to see him play live this season – not at the World Junior Hockey Championship in Halifax last Christmas and not in the KHL either. Because NHL club team personnel are not travelling freely to Russia, in the modern era of the NHL draft, certainly post-Soviet Union/Iron Curtain, no elite NHL prospect has had fewer live viewings from NHL personnel than Michkov."

Teams have not been able to have live viewings of Michkov for 2 years. This is an issue. There are a lot of things you can't see on video. You can't see what he's doing when he's not on screen in the defensive zone. You can't see what his body language is after they get scored on, or if his teammate misses him when he's open, when he misses a chance. You can't see how he carries himself on the bench. You can't see how interacts with his teammates or coaches. There's a vital evaluation point and familiarity that you don't have.

That also means they haven't gotten to know him as a person or his growth as a person over the last two years. When you are investing a high pick, you are not just investing on a hockey player, you are investing on a person.

Bob McKenzie:
"More rumours/60 than any other prospect and so many unanswered queries and unsubstantiated theories on everything from whether he’s a good teammate to the mysterious circumstances surrounding the death of his father this season, a traumatic event that the teenager, as one would expect, is still processing."

There's character concerns that they don't have answers to and there is still the mysterious death of his father. Yeah, the father thing might be a nothing burger but it's not like Russia is squeaky clean on how it operates. But the main issue here is the potential character concerns. The Montreal Canadiens in particular are all about building an inclusive locker room where everyone is high character individuals and they won't risk that by bringing in a potentially volatile personality.

That is where having no live viewings and no contact with a player over the last two years becomes a bigger sticking point.

Arpon Basu/Montreal: I honestly believe the Canadiens are not overly concerned about Michkov coming over from Russia. It is their strict hockey evaluation that has them concerned about him, most notably his size and the one-dimensional nature of his game. The talent in the offensive zone is undeniable, but it is the other two zones that I feel concerns the Canadiens. And that’s not only a reference to his lack of defensive acumen, the fact he is not much of a driver through the neutral zone is something I feel concerns them as well.

There's hockey concerns as well. Michkov is a small player. Now, I don't particularly have an issue with small forwards but it is clear the Canadiens are concerned about the size mix in their top 6. I also don't have a concern over the one-dimensional nature of his game but that's a concern for teams as well.

If he's only good in one zone, that severely hampers what they can do with him on the ice and the neutral zone is one of MSL biggest focus areas.

So based on all of that - the concerns over his contract status, his ability to stay in Russia if he doesn't like where he is drafted, the geopolitical uncertainty, the character concerns, the lack of live viewings, the lack of actually knowing the player well, the concerns over his defensive and neutral zone play, and the possibility that his offensive game just isn't as good as billed or hasn't grown enough over the last two years.. the risk profile is not nothing, there's some legitimate concerns across the spectrum there.

And then you need to remove your own evaluation from Leonard/Reinbacher and understand that other scouting staffs and teams may see them in higher regard than you do.

If the evaluation is that Michkov is a 70-90 point forward who can't drive through the neutral zone, can't defend all that well, makes your forward group too small to contend, may take 3 years or longer to come over, may not be a good person or teammate, and may not actually be a 70-90 point forward since his progression is harder to track AND your evaluation is that Leonard is a 60-80 point forward who can provide a physical element, defensive conscience, speed, and creativity to a line-up that needs it.. why would you assume ALL of that risk for a deviation of ~10-20 points on either end of that projected offensive output?
 

Runner77

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i think MTL will trade with SJS to move up a spot for Smith

what would the cost be to move to #4 ? #31 or #37
As unlikely as it’s been to see top 5 pick movement historically, I’m hoping this is the year when it happens given that it would only involve switching places for one rank.

I think if it happens it might involve more than just draft picks. Just a hunch but I don’t believe Hughes wants to be in the position of having to pass on Michkov without Fantilli-Carlsson-Smith as an option.
 

417

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Is there anyone left who believes we’ll take Michkov?
Given that Nick Bobrov's father is associated with the team that own Michkov's rights, I think the Montreal Canadiens may be better placed than other teams to determine whether or not the biggest factor that might make him available at #5, are legitimate concerns or not.

So assuming those connections are leveraged, i'll be comfortable if they do indeed pass on him (at least initially, if he comes over to NA in 3 years and puts up points like Panarin & Kaprizov, then that's another story).
 

Nico Cauzuki

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As unlikely as it’s been to see top 5 pick movement historically, I’m hoping this is the year when it happens given that it would only involve switching places for one rank.

I think if it happens it might involve more than just draft picks. Just a hunch but I don’t believe Hughes wants to be in the position of having to pass on Michkov without Fantilli-Carlsson-Smith as an option.
yes this is why i think he will want to move up or down i think a trade with San Jose is possible but not ANA or CLB

Guess it depends how hign they are on Smith compared to Leonard,Reinbacher,Benson and Dvorsky
 
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Rapala

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No one here is a detractor on Matvei Michkov.. I have not seen one person say that the Montreal Canadiens should not pick Matvei Michkov under no circumstances.



Kent Hughes himself when asked about Michkov also mentioned the possibility that he signs an extension in Russia. That means there is verifiable risk amongst NHL executives, teams, scouts and media members that Michkov may not simply cross over in 3 years and that he may actually extend longer in the KHL.



Teams have not been able to have live viewings of Michkov for 2 years. This is an issue. There are a lot of things you can't see on video. You can't see what he's doing when he's not on screen in the defensive zone. You can't see what his body language is after they get scored on, or if his teammate misses him when he's open, when he misses a chance. You can't see how he carries himself on the bench. You can't see how interacts with his teammates or coaches. There's a vital evaluation point and familiarity that you don't have.

That also means they haven't gotten to know him as a person or his growth as a person over the last two years. When you are investing a high pick, you are not just investing on a hockey player, you are investing on a person.



There's character concerns that they don't have answers to and there is still the mysterious death of his father. Yeah, the father thing might be a nothing burger but it's not like Russia is squeaky clean on how it operates. But the main issue here is the potential character concerns. The Montreal Canadiens in particular are all about building an inclusive locker room where everyone is high character individuals and they won't risk that by bringing in a potentially volatile personality.

That is where having no live viewings and no contact with a player over the last two years becomes a bigger sticking point.



There's hockey concerns as well. Michkov is a small player. Now, I don't particularly have an issue with small forwards but it is clear the Canadiens are concerned about the size mix in their top 6. I also don't have a concern over the one-dimensional nature of his game but that's a concern for teams as well.

If he's only good in one zone, that severely hampers what they can do with him on the ice and the neutral zone is one of MSL biggest focus areas.

So based on all of that - the concerns over his contract status, his ability to stay in Russia if he doesn't like where he is drafted, the geopolitical uncertainty, the character concerns, the lack of live viewings, the lack of actually knowing the player well, the concerns over his defensive and neutral zone play, and the possibility that his offensive game just isn't as good as billed or hasn't grown enough over the last two years.. the risk profile is not nothing, there's some legitimate concerns across the spectrum there.

And then you need to remove your own evaluation from Leonard/Reinbacher and understand that other scouting staffs and teams may see them in higher regard than you do.

If the evaluation is that Michkov is a 70-90 point forward who can't drive through the neutral zone, can't defend all that well, makes your forward group too small to contend, may take 3 years or longer to come over, may not be a good person or teammate, and may not actually be a 70-90 point forward since his progression is harder to track AND your evaluation is that Leonard is a 60-80 point forward who can provide a physical element, defensive conscience, speed, and creativity to a line-up that needs it.. why would you assume ALL of that risk for a deviation of ~10-20 points on either end of that projected offensive output?
This.
Thank You @WeThreeKings
This probably isn't the last word but it should be. :laugh:
 

Runner77

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yes this is why i think he will want to move up or down i think a trade with San Jose is possible but not ANA or CLB

Guess it depends how hign they are on Smith compared to Leonard,Reinbacher,Benson and Dvorsky
I wouldn’t be surprised that they’d be valuing Smith within Bob’s rankings. As a corollary to your last point, it depends where Habs scouting perceives the tier drop off to be and how significant they assess it to be.
 
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zzoo

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Mar 9, 2004
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Tier List:

Ecstatic

Any of the consensus top 5

Happy

Leonard

Fine

Benson
Dvorsky

Ugh

Any D
Any off-the-board forward
Super happy: Fantilli
Very happy: Carlsson, Michkov
Happy: Smith, Leonard, Benson
Disappointed: Dvorsky, Perreault
Mad: any D or any off-the-board forward
 
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Andrei79

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No one here is a detractor on Matvei Michkov.. I have not seen one person say that the Montreal Canadiens should not pick Matvei Michkov under no circumstances.



Kent Hughes himself when asked about Michkov also mentioned the possibility that he signs an extension in Russia. That means there is verifiable risk amongst NHL executives, teams, scouts and media members that Michkov may not simply cross over in 3 years and that he may actually extend longer in the KHL.



Teams have not been able to have live viewings of Michkov for 2 years. This is an issue. There are a lot of things you can't see on video. You can't see what he's doing when he's not on screen in the defensive zone. You can't see what his body language is after they get scored on, or if his teammate misses him when he's open, when he misses a chance. You can't see how he carries himself on the bench. You can't see how interacts with his teammates or coaches. There's a vital evaluation point and familiarity that you don't have.

That also means they haven't gotten to know him as a person or his growth as a person over the last two years. When you are investing a high pick, you are not just investing on a hockey player, you are investing on a person.



There's character concerns that they don't have answers to and there is still the mysterious death of his father. Yeah, the father thing might be a nothing burger but it's not like Russia is squeaky clean on how it operates. But the main issue here is the potential character concerns. The Montreal Canadiens in particular are all about building an inclusive locker room where everyone is high character individuals and they won't risk that by bringing in a potentially volatile personality.

That is where having no live viewings and no contact with a player over the last two years becomes a bigger sticking point.



There's hockey concerns as well. Michkov is a small player. Now, I don't particularly have an issue with small forwards but it is clear the Canadiens are concerned about the size mix in their top 6. I also don't have a concern over the one-dimensional nature of his game but that's a concern for teams as well.

If he's only good in one zone, that severely hampers what they can do with him on the ice and the neutral zone is one of MSL biggest focus areas.

So based on all of that - the concerns over his contract status, his ability to stay in Russia if he doesn't like where he is drafted, the geopolitical uncertainty, the character concerns, the lack of live viewings, the lack of actually knowing the player well, the concerns over his defensive and neutral zone play, and the possibility that his offensive game just isn't as good as billed or hasn't grown enough over the last two years.. the risk profile is not nothing, there's some legitimate concerns across the spectrum there.

And then you need to remove your own evaluation from Leonard/Reinbacher and understand that other scouting staffs and teams may see them in higher regard than you do.

If the evaluation is that Michkov is a 70-90 point forward who can't drive through the neutral zone, can't defend all that well, makes your forward group too small to contend, may take 3 years or longer to come over, may not be a good person or teammate, and may not actually be a 70-90 point forward since his progression is harder to track AND your evaluation is that Leonard is a 60-80 point forward who can provide a physical element, defensive conscience, speed, and creativity to a line-up that needs it.. why would you assume ALL of that risk for a deviation of ~10-20 points on either end of that projected offensive output?

While I'll be very happy if they draft Michkov, I still have a few concerns about him. One is what you referred to about the lack of live viewings, while I'll add we have no best on best to evaluate him either over that period.

The other is the contract concerns. Not that he won't come over, but that the KHL remains for him an excellent negotiation tool that players from elsewhere don't have. An NCAA prospect will want to sign that ELC and get the bonus quick. Michkov can make hundreds of thousands and live very comfortably. He can wait a year or two more, so that he will just have 1 (or 2) year of ELC. This is what happened with Kaprizov, where he negotiated by threatening to go back to the KHL, getting 9M$ after around 50 NHL games at ppg. The risk ended up being worth it, but its still a pretty big risk to lock up a guy for 8 years at those numbers after so few games.
 
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Runner77

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No one here is a detractor on Matvei Michkov.. I have not seen one person say that the Montreal Canadiens should not pick Matvei Michkov under no circumstances.



Kent Hughes himself when asked about Michkov also mentioned the possibility that he signs an extension in Russia. That means there is verifiable risk amongst NHL executives, teams, scouts and media members that Michkov may not simply cross over in 3 years and that he may actually extend longer in the KHL.



Teams have not been able to have live viewings of Michkov for 2 years. This is an issue. There are a lot of things you can't see on video. You can't see what he's doing when he's not on screen in the defensive zone. You can't see what his body language is after they get scored on, or if his teammate misses him when he's open, when he misses a chance. You can't see how he carries himself on the bench. You can't see how interacts with his teammates or coaches. There's a vital evaluation point and familiarity that you don't have.

That also means they haven't gotten to know him as a person or his growth as a person over the last two years. When you are investing a high pick, you are not just investing on a hockey player, you are investing on a person.



There's character concerns that they don't have answers to and there is still the mysterious death of his father. Yeah, the father thing might be a nothing burger but it's not like Russia is squeaky clean on how it operates. But the main issue here is the potential character concerns. The Montreal Canadiens in particular are all about building an inclusive locker room where everyone is high character individuals and they won't risk that by bringing in a potentially volatile personality.

That is where having no live viewings and no contact with a player over the last two years becomes a bigger sticking point.



There's hockey concerns as well. Michkov is a small player. Now, I don't particularly have an issue with small forwards but it is clear the Canadiens are concerned about the size mix in their top 6. I also don't have a concern over the one-dimensional nature of his game but that's a concern for teams as well.

If he's only good in one zone, that severely hampers what they can do with him on the ice and the neutral zone is one of MSL biggest focus areas.

So based on all of that - the concerns over his contract status, his ability to stay in Russia if he doesn't like where he is drafted, the geopolitical uncertainty, the character concerns, the lack of live viewings, the lack of actually knowing the player well, the concerns over his defensive and neutral zone play, and the possibility that his offensive game just isn't as good as billed or hasn't grown enough over the last two years.. the risk profile is not nothing, there's some legitimate concerns across the spectrum there.

And then you need to remove your own evaluation from Leonard/Reinbacher and understand that other scouting staffs and teams may see them in higher regard than you do.

If the evaluation is that Michkov is a 70-90 point forward who can't drive through the neutral zone, can't defend all that well, makes your forward group too small to contend, may take 3 years or longer to come over, may not be a good person or teammate, and may not actually be a 70-90 point forward since his progression is harder to track AND your evaluation is that Leonard is a 60-80 point forward who can provide a physical element, defensive conscience, speed, and creativity to a line-up that needs it.. why would you assume ALL of that risk for a deviation of ~10-20 points on either end of that projected offensive output?
That is one of the most complete responses to the issue of why not Michkov, that I have seen on the forum and should be bookmarked as the same question is bound to come up again due to the PTSD nature of this place.

We have seen plenty and are continuing to see why Michkov should be selected, which is par for the course but it makes for a far more interesting read when we get to gauge other sides of the argument even if they are not in agreement with popular opinion.

Good job @WeThreeKings.
 

Ozmodiar

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
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I believe the average height of an NHL defenseman is 6'2"
Height (and weight, even more so) of D entering the league has been consistently trending downward over the last 15/20 years.

Modern era defenseman - Girard, Hughes, even Makar - are in demand.

It should continue with players like - Lane H, Olen Z, and ASP.
 

Habs

I've almost had enough of you kids
Feb 28, 2002
21,887
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as long as there isn't some dude named Scott Kotkaniemi available at 5, we should get a good player. Hoping its Smith or Leonard , will vomit if its Benson or one of these soft unimpressive Dmen.
 

MTL-rules

Registered User
Nov 17, 2006
9,705
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So let's again talk about all the physical skills of a player without talking about his lack of Production while pointing out all the intangibles flaws of a player .. So we'll have again a solid prospect on our end instead of a stud... We'll win a bunch of Cups that way...
 

Andrei79

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Jan 25, 2013
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So let's again talk about all the physical skills of a player without talking about his lack of Production while pointing out all the intangibles flaws of a player .. So we'll have again a solid prospect on our end instead of a stud... We'll win a bunch of Cups that way...

What lack of production ?

People are talking about a guy who went almost a goal per game, another who broke Swiss league records and a center who demolished the U18s alone. And there's Benson who outscored high picks from last year.
 

Redux91

I do Three bullets.
Sep 5, 2006
46,471
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The fact that despite so many mysteries which still surround Michkov, that every single one of Mackenzie's scouts still have him in the top 5. Including ranges as high as 2, should speak volumes about the certainty he'd be the BPA, and how dumb it would be to pass.

And it only validates what the Michkov camp has been preaching in here forever.
And what the "Michkov camp" can't comprehend or understand, or choose to not comprehend or understand is that the "non-michkov camp" aren't "idiots who don't understand hockey" who think Michkov isn't a top 5 pick like there's something wrong with their brains hockey wise or (very) amateur hockey scouting wise and in turn there must be something horribly wrong with the brains of Hughes and Gorton, that if they don't pick Michkov, they dont understand hockey and are not good at their jobs.

The problem here is, simply put, fear and uncertainty, and everything that surrounds that is ugliness from *all* camps trying to navigate and swim through a very volatile situation, in which we find ourselves in one of the more amazingly precarious positions in the draft to boot.

I just wish some our "fans" would stop "pre"-destroying our management group for navigating that same maelstrom themselves but for real, and trying to come up with the best way to obtain a great player that will help the team for years to come while at the same time trying to deal with the projected potential fallout from whatever pick they DO make because even just the two options of "picking michkov" and "not picking michkov" are among a multitude of different scenarios that could happen where no matter what : you will deal with a group of "unhappy people in reference to whatever pick is made"
Hopefully, you make a pick where that group of unhappy people isn't so large as to overwhelm whatever mediums into getting people in charge fired.
But as we are all hopefully well aware, there's so much more to the whole thing..

Again, I just don't like the trashing of management for something they havent done yet, and of other fans who are, and I can't stress this enough, not AGAINST picking Michkov, but have the mental fortitude to accept a possible unpleasant future outcome, and deal with it a little bit better than others.
Because a lot of people also understand, no matter what, you are getting a great player at 5, and we are already well on our way to something special
Can't wait to see what happens
 
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