Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

[Uncle Rotter]

Virtually no other segment of our society has a code of silence that protects each other - "I saw a video of a half dozen guys raping an unconscious woman, so I deleted it" - forged in closed door locker rooms, in an atmosphere where they brag and glorify putting the "team" ahead of all else, trained in violence, backed by an old boys network who have secreted away millions to ensure things stay this way.

Did I say virtually? Let me know of any other segment of society that has all those elements.

The police? Churches? Lawyers? Politicians?

 

[NyQuil]

The police? Churches? Lawyers? Politicians?

The film Spotlight is a pretty good exhibition of this kind of behaviour.

 

[wetcoast]

Hockey Canada did not go public with the 2003 information until forced to two weeks later by Westhead. Or by whomever reported it to the Halifax police.

If that had not happened, Hockey Canada would still be hiding the 2003 information.

Hockey Canada siphoned funds from little kids playing hockey - mandatory fees - to create a secret $14million slush fund for paying attack dogs to investigate and silence plaintiffs and pay out hush money for serious, credible rape allegations.

Hockey Canada employs the language and tactics of defending rape enabling culture and the toxic code of silence, and backs those words up with millions to ensure alleged rapists never face scrutiny.

Virtually no other segment of our society has a code of silence that protects each other - "I saw a video of a half dozen guys raping an unconscious woman, so I deleted it" - forged in closed door locker rooms, in an atmosphere where they brag and glorify putting the "team" ahead of all else, trained in violence, backed by an old boys network who have secreted away millions to ensure things stay this way.

Did I say virtually? Let me know of any other segment of society that has all those elements.

If I was a rapist, I would look to Hockey Canada as the near perfect model to allow me to advance my rapey ways.

Other rapists may choose different models. To each their own.

Sexual assault allegations 2003 World Juniors team | TSN

Halifax police said they have opened a criminal investigation into sexual assault allegations related to Canada’s 2003 World Junior team.

www.tsn.ca

When you say virtually no other segment do you mean expect for other sports teams, the military, police, fireman, rock bands and other groups of men who have close tightknit associations?

In the radio article I mentioned yesterday with a lawyer who was a Graham James victim, he said in that interview that it was actually a good thing that HC had such a fund although he did go on to say that there were definite problems with the way it was administered, hopefully you listened to it as it was quite interesting and brought some substance to the situation at hand.

Greg Gilhooly is the lawyer in the interview.

The Jill Bennett Show | Global News

The Jill Bennett Show | Global News

globalnews.ca

 

[I am toxic]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/kitchener-rangers-ohl-onside-hockey-canada-sexual-violence-1.6525536

"According to the Ontario Coalition of Rape Crisis Centres, an independent organization that has been tracking the OHL Onside training, some teams stopped after the onset of COVID-19."

Dave Branch has been the Supreme Leader of the OHL since 1979. Someone at Hockey Canada should be fired over this.

See. That's independent.

They aren't engaged by the OHL, they didn't accept any terms of engagement from the OHL, they didn't get paid by the OHL, they don't report to the OHL, and the OHL can't stop them from reporting.

Independent.

The next time someone refers to the Hockey Canada third party investigations - controlled by Hockey Canada and designed to protect their own interest - as "independent" investigations . . .

 

[Quinning]

This all goes back to the days of Sheldon Kennedy and Graham James.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

See. That's independent.

They aren't engaged by the OHL, they didn't accept any terms of engagement from the OHL, they didn't get paid by the OHL, they don't report to the OHL, and the OHL can't stop them from reporting.

Independent.

The next time someone refers to the Hockey Canada third party investigations controlled by Hockey Canada and designed to protect their own interest as "independent" investigations . . .

Training (and there were no repercussions for stopping the sessions). They aren't an investigative body.

Sexual assault allegations 2003 World Juniors team | TSN

Halifax police said they have opened a criminal investigation into sexual assault allegations related to Canada’s 2003 World Junior team.

www.tsn.ca

When you say virtually no other segment do you mean expect for other sports teams, the military, police, fireman, rock bands and other groups of men who have close tightknit associations?

In the radio article I mentioned yesterday with a lawyer who was a Graham James victim, he said in that interview that it was actually a good thing that HC had such a fund although he did go on to say that there were definite problems with the way it was administered, hopefully you listened to it as it was quite interesting and brought some substance to the situation at hand.

Greg Gilhooly is the lawyer in the interview.

The Jill Bennett Show | Global News

The Jill Bennett Show | Global News

globalnews.ca

I forgot the military.

 

[NyQuil]

I forgot the military.

What they all have in common is that they are male dominated institutions.

 

[francis246]

That's exactly what happened.



Right away? When informed of the rape, they called the insurance company before even calling the police. That's how "concerned" these guys were.



They hired an elite law firm that specializes in being hostile to rape plaitiffs. Like, world-reknown crooked lawyers.

They didn't put any measures or incentives in place for the players to cooperate. "No biggie guys, even if you refuse to talk to our bogus investigators, we'll see you in camp and then we'll party at the next orgy!" In other words, they didn't want the rapists to collaborate with the investigation.

And then, they used the special rape hush fund to pay the victim off in exchange for her complete silence. They then worded it in lawyer-speak as "the woman has chosen not to reveal the names of the people involved and we totally respect that, yo". Nobody smart is falling for that.

That's not "looking at the situation". That's burying the story.

To top it off, they also most probably swayed London Police into not putting much effort into their own investigation, which has since then also proven to be bogus. Which is why London PD are also launching a new investigation.

So, two large, publicly-funded institutions have admitted that each of their previous investigations on a gang rape were bogus. One has already apologized for it. The other will soon enough.

It's officially a massive coverup. One that is getting exposed more and more in the last few weeks.

I think we are on the same side here, but where we differ is this to me is not a cover up. This is a lack of organizational structure. It’s not having the correct systems in place to deal with these types of issues. It’s like you said hiring law firms that according to you, I haven’t seen any reports out there on it that strong arms rape victims. It’s just poor decisions after poor decisions.

The main point is the systems in place are broken and were never effective. to your other point about not calling the police, I think that has to do with the victim’s choice initially. In cases of sexual assault victim cooperation is vital (so I think that played a role)

The victim didn’t want to participate - there is no indication that Hockey Canada forced the victim into making that situation. If they did or it comes out that they did then that would constitute a cover up. (Side note* unfortunately, there are many factors that can cause someone not to disclose such as fear of not being believed, fear of having to relive trauma, fear of retaliations. I do not blame the victim at all for the decision to settle)

If you want to use the word cover up, go ahead but I don’t think that’s the correct term here and it has been used very loosely here.

This is 100% a systems issue where there is no effective system in place to mitigate or deal with sexual assault/rape allegations within Hockey Canada’s structure.

 

[Zippity]

It wasn’t a cover up. Hockey Canada responded to the allegations immediately. A cover up is avoiding doing anything at all and paying to make everything disappear.

An investigation was done right away. What Hockey Canada is wrong for is that after the investigation no disciplinary action was taken. That is what is the issue. They did the right thing by looking into the situation but ultimately there was no action taken afterwards and that is the systemic issue with Hockey Canada. The investigations don’t yield any changes within the culture of Hockey Canada’s structure.

It has nothing to do with a cover up. Every major sports organization has money set aside to deal with lawsuits and settlements. That isn’t really an issue; though it speaks to the culture and prevalence of assaults within the organization.

I thought I read somewhere that HC investigated was only partially completed back then?
I’m sure victim didn’t want to participate because of the pressure everyone gave her.
I wonder if someone will file a class action on the registration fees

 

[Quinning]

Hockey Canada needs to be dissolved and rebuilt at this point. They have an ingrained culture of "hush-hush" and "win at all costs".

It's either buy in or we'll replace you with any one of the thousand desperate kids who will.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

I thought I read somewhere that HC investigated was only partially completed back then

They closed it a year and a half after the London police closed theirs.

 

[francis246]

I thought I read somewhere that HC investigated was only partially completed back then?
I’m sure victim didn’t want to participate because of the pressure everyone gave her.
I wonder if someone will file a class action on the registration fees

Yeah again, I’m not on Hockey Canada’s side here. I’m not sure the full merits of the initial investigation. Maybe it was a farce, maybe it was conducted to the best of the abilities. I thought the non-mandatory participation of players was really weird. There is no way that Hockey Canada doesn’t know who was involved.

That being said they are not at any liberty to disclose that and I understand that part. I don’t even want to know who was involved, it’s not even important. What’s important is how is the organization going to discipline those involved and create realistic and actionable measures moving forward? Or is it simply time for a new organization to head hockey in Canada.

I don’t think Hockey Canada will be banned from IIHF events because it’s not fair to punish every Canadian Hockey player for the decisions of 8 stupid idiots and those in upper management not making good decisions. Also PS I’m sure many other federations are dealing with these issues to but Westhead hasn’t gotten to them yet lol.

 

[I am toxic]

//snip
When you say virtually no other segment do you mean expect for other sports teams, the military, police, fireman, rock bands and other groups of men who have close tightknit associations? // snip

Individual sports don't have the element of putting the team above all else, do they? Is it a coincidence that we have not heard Golf Canada has hushed up multiple accusations of gang rape? Badmin . . . oh wait, I forgot doubles badminton, where bonds of brotherhood are forged and the doubles team is put before everything else.

And of those team sports that do, which ones have a $14M secret hush money slush fund to bury any scrutiny of alleged rapes?

And does the military - a public institution subject to government scrutiny and which also needs to have virtually it's entire leadership removed and culture overhauled - have a $14M secret hush money slush fund to bury any scrutiny of alleged rapes?

And does the RCMP - a public institution subject to government scrutiny and which also needs to have virtually it's entire leadership removed and culture overhauled - have a $14M secret hush money slush fund to bury any scrutiny of alleged rapes?

And do the fireman (sic) have a $14M secret hush money slush fund to bury any scrutiny of alleged rapes? Are "firewomen" calling for a complete overhaul of whatever fireman (sic) union there it? I dunno.

If those organizatons do have millions or tens of millions of secret hush money slush fund to bury any scrutiny of alleged rapes, then huzzay for them! They are in the rarified company of Hockey Canada, virtually the only segments in our society with all those elements.

Yay?

 

[NyQuil]

I don’t think Hockey Canada will be banned from IIHF events because it’s not fair to punish every Canadian Hockey player for the decisions of 8 stupid idiots and those in upper management not making good decisions.

It really depends on whether you are punishing the act itself or the culture of secrecy that allows acts like it to continue.

 

[Zippity]

Yeah again, I’m not on Hockey Canada’s side here. I’m not sure the full merits of the initial investigation. Maybe it was a farce, maybe it was conducted to the best of the abilities. I thought the non-mandatory participation of players was really weird. There is no way that Hockey Canada doesn’t know who was involved.

That being said they are not at any liberty to disclose that and I understand that part. I don’t even want to know who was involved, it’s not even important. What’s important is how is the organization going to discipline those involved and create realistic and actionable measures moving forward? Or is it simply time for a new organization to head hockey in Canada.

I don’t think Hockey Canada will be banned from IIHF events because it’s not fair to punish every Canadian Hockey player for the decisions of 8 stupid idiots and those in upper management not making good decisions. Also PS I’m sure many other federations are dealing with these issues to but Westhead hasn’t gotten to them yet lol.

Banning is the best way to send a message that it won’t be tolerated. Well unless you are in the NHL draft and then they will turn a blind eye

 

[NyQuil]

Individual sports don't have the element of putting the team above all else, do they? Is it a coincidence that we have not heard Golf Canada has hushed up multiple accusations of gang rape? Badmin . . . oh wait, I forgot doubles badminton, where bonds of brotherhood are forged and the doubles team is put before everything else.

And of those team sports that do, which ones have a $14M secret hush money slush fund to bury any scrutiny of alleged rapes?

And does the military - a public institution subject to government scrutiny and which also needs to have virtually it's entire leadership removed and culture overhauled - have a $14M secret hush money slush fund to bury any scrutiny of alleged rapes?

And does the RCMP - a public institution subject to government scrutiny and which also needs to have virtually it's entire leadership removed and culture overhauled - have a $14M secret hush money slush fund to bury any scrutiny of alleged rapes?

And do the fireman (sic) have a $14M secret hush money slush fund to bury any scrutiny of alleged rapes? Are "firewomen" calling for a complete overhaul of whatever fireman (sic) union there it? I dunno.

If those organizatons do have millions or tens of millions of secret hush money slush fund to bury any scrutiny of alleged rapes, then huzzay for them! They are in the rarified company of Hockey Canada, virtually the only segments in our society with all those elements.

Yay?

Try billions?

While the Catholic Church has faced lawsuits around the world over allegations of clergy abuse, how much the Catholic Church has paid in settlements worldwide has never been determined. However, according to the nonprofit organization Bishop Accountability, the church has paid out more than $3 billion in major settlements and awards in the United States. Some groups believe this number underestimates by nearly $1 billion the actual cost to the U.S. church for covering up clergy abuse for nearly a half-century.

Sexual Assault Lawyers Fighting for You | Pintas & Mullins

If you are a sexual assault victim, you deserve compensation for the damages you suffered. Call Pintas & Mullins for a free consultation about your rights.

www.pintas.com

Hockey Canada is amateur hour by comparison.

 

[I am toxic]

The police? Churches? Lawyers? Politicians?

Churches, lawyers and politicians have a lockerroom culture where they bond and form a code of silence?

Politicians don't rat opposing politicians out?

Priests, lawyers and politicians are trained in violence?

Have a "team" that comes first above all else?

As for the RCMP, they are a public institution that is subject to government scrutiny, and virtually its entire leadership needs to be replaced and it's culture overhauled.

We can't just get rid of the police - well we could, rapists everywhere would rejoice.

We absolutely can get rid of Hockey Canada and its leaders, and replace it with something decent and good - instead of something almost perfectly designed to advance rape-enabling culture. Rapists everywhere would go into mourning.

 

[francis246]

It really depends on whether you are punishing the act itself or the culture of secrecy that allows acts like it to continue.

Then they should literally cancel IIHF tournaments across the board. Because this is happening in every single federation. USA Hockey should be banned as well for the handling of Kyle Beach.

What I think needs to happen is there needs to be an agreement between the IIHF and all the federations where an INDEPENDENT organization is contracted to investigate all the federations every 6 months or year or whatever it is. Every federation is required register any allegation in a log/database and the IIHF is aware and will track the case to completion. To ensure there is a fair resolution and federations are held accountable.

I get cancel culture is very prominent now, but we need to make tangible changes that actually impact the systems.

Banning is the best way to send a message that it won’t be tolerated. Well unless you are in the NHL draft and then they will turn a blind eye

I disagree with that. Banning/cancelling isn’t the best way, make actual change in the systems. Force organizations to be transparent. Let’s NORMALIZE DISCLOSURE for the love of God. Let’s start with things that are actually tangible and can be achieved.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Then they should literally cancel IIHF tournaments across the board. Because this is happening in every single federation. USA Hockey should be banned as well for the handling of Kyle Beach.

Don't forget Reid Boucher

Politicians don't rat opposing politicians out?

But if they're on the same team.

Rick Dykstra - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[duckpuck]

Kinda weird how no names have been leaked….

From what I've read, it appears that the alleged victim still has not provided names to the police or Hockey Canada. How can names leak when the only people who know the names (the woman perhaps her family/lawyers) won't share that information.

I think we are on the same side here, but where we differ is this to me is not a cover up. This is a lack of organizational structure. It’s not having the correct systems in place to deal with these types of issues. It’s like you said hiring law firms that according to you, I haven’t seen any reports out there on it that strong arms rape victims. It’s just poor decisions after poor decisions.

The main point is the systems in place are broken and were never effective. to your other point about not calling the police, I think that has to do with the victim’s choice initially. In cases of sexual assault victim cooperation is vital (so I think that played a role)

The victim didn’t want to participate - there is no indication that Hockey Canada forced the victim into making that situation. If they did or it comes out that they did then that would constitute a cover up. (Side note* unfortunately, there are many factors that can cause someone not to disclose such as fear of not being believed, fear of having to relive trauma, fear of retaliations. I do not blame the victim at all for the decision to settle)

If you want to use the word cover up, go ahead but I don’t think that’s the correct term here and it has been used very loosely here.

This is 100% a systems issue where there is no effective system in place to mitigate or deal with sexual assault/rape allegations within Hockey Canada’s structure.

It wasn't just Hockey Canada. The victim refused to cooperate with the police. HC's investigation can only go so far without knowing who the alleged perpetrators are. And when all the players deny wrongdoing (which is apparently what happened), how do the police and/or HC continue to investigate without assistance from the woman? People just want to gloss over this - but it is the key fact.

In hindsight, what were HC's options? I suppose they could have refused to settle without requiring the women to name the alleged perpetrators and offer some details of the allegations (i.e., who did what). That solves a lot here IMO.

And/or if there's a NDA as part of the settlement (which seems to be the case), they could release her from that so she can name names now.

In terms of systems in place to prevent bad acts, I think HC and most organizations can always do better. But no system can address a situation where an alleged victim is not willing to cooperate with policy or HC, name the perpetrators, or provide basic details.

 

[RoadWarrior]

If nothing illegal happened (ie. fully consentual act of sex), then why the f*** would Hockey Canada give a damn about covering it up? In no, way, shape or form would they be worried that a consentual gangbang be a bad look for their players.

Insurance companies pay out damages for false claims all the time.

Why? Because it's cheaper to settle a false claim than to litigate the case in court.

Basic math.

In these kind of situations the truth really doesn't matter to the parties involved. Only the appearance of impropriety.

In all likelihood the payment to the family was relatively small. Just below the estimated cost of litigation.

This all goes back to the days of Sheldon Kennedy and Graham James.

This case is nothing like Graham James and quite frankly making that kind of comparison is insulting to his victims.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

This case is nothing like Graham James and quite frankly making that kind of comparison is insulting to his victims.

Sheldon Kennedy 'disturbed' Hockey Canada didn't require players take part in assault probe

Sheldon Kennedy tuned in as Hockey Canada executives faced question after pointed question. What he heard disturbed him.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Silencio]

Is it any surprise that both the 2018 and 2003 incidents took place at events hosted in Canada? Only here are a bunch of pimply faced 19 year old amateur hockey players treated like conquering hero demigods whereas no other country on earth gives a flying f*** who these kids are (or at least not nearly to the same degree).

 

[francis246]

Is it any surprise that both the 2018 and 2003 incidents took place at events hosted in Canada? Only here are a bunch of pimply faced 19 year old amateur hockey players treated like conquering hero demigods whereas no other country on earth gives a flying f*** who these kids are (or at least not nearly to the same degree).

If you think this only happens in Canada idk what to tell you. This is a world wide problem and not exclusive to Hockey Canada at all.

 

[NyQuil]

If you think this only happens in Canada idk what to tell you. This is a world wide problem and not exclusive to Hockey Canada at all.

I think he's right in that they are celebrities at home.