Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

[Golden_Jet]

I never said they were all from the team, I said there were up to 8 players from the team.

I don't know why you're getting hung up on this point either

Up to 8 players that’s about a third of the team,
Is what you said.
Lol, hung up on the facts of a legal case.

 

[Pink Mist]

Up to 8 players that’s about a third of the team,
Is what you said.
Lol, hung up on the facts of a legal case.

Yes, up to 8 players would equal about a third of the team. Do you have trouble doing math?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yes, up to 8 players would equal about a third of the team. Do you have trouble doing math?

Lmao dude, you just agreed their not all from the team and now they’re all from the team, have another one, even though it’s morning. So which is it this time?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Lmao dude, you just agreed their not all from the team and now they’re all from the team, have another one, even though it’s morning. So which is it this time?

I'm not sure why you're hung up on the point as to whether all players were from the WJC team or not. It's a heinous event regardless of whether every participant was a member of a world juniors team or only "some" were with the rest being "regular" CHL players.

 

[Pink Mist]

Lmao dude, you just agreed their not all from the team and now they’re all from the team, have another one, even though it’s morning. So which is it this time?

[mod] I never said they're all from the team. Its unclear based on the lawsuit and settlement at this point if they're all from the team or not.

Up to 8 players from the world juniors team means that there could be anywhere from 1 to 8 players from the world juniors team. If it is 8 players from the team that is nearly a third of the junior team.

Regardless its a weird thing to be hung up about because the lawsuit still alleged that members of the team sexually assaulted her in a gangrape. I think it's pretty heinous if even just one participated, but I don't know, maybe to you there's some acceptable number of world junior players who are allowed to participate in a rape or something before it becomes unacceptable.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

Of course hockey canada knows the names of those involved. Surely you can’t be that naive. They would have to be really inept if they couldn’t gather that much information

Yup. Not only do people at Hockey Canada know the names of these rapists but they have most probably been in contact with them, their agents and their legal representatives, who were probably directly involved in negociating the settlement and have no doubt given "generous donations" to hockey canada.

 

[wetcoast]

Also, it is possible that the victim wouldn’t even know the names of all 8 players. I highly doubt she knew all of them before the incident. SO I reckon she is unable to identify them anyway.

According to earlier reports she also didn't want to talk to the police and that's being missed by many.

I've heard several news outlets in Vancouver have some of their journalists take phone calls about the problem of "hockey culture" where hockey as a whole gets vilified and it makes great radio but does little to help the overall problems of young men making bad choices being away from their family and alcohol and woman are out there, nevermeind the internet where everyone is being affected in a largely negative way.

The federal government is also grandstanding a bit here to deflect on other small problems like inflation and the quality of life for many Canadians.

Yup. Not only do people at Hockey Canada know the names of these rapists but they have most probably been in contact with them, their agents and their legal representatives, who were probably directly involved in negociating the settlement and have no doubt given "generous donations" to hockey canada.

Do you have a link for any of this?

Pretty sure donations would be public and maybe you don't know the whole timeline of the case involved?

 

[Golden_Jet]

[mod] I never said they're all from the team. Its unclear based on the lawsuit and settlement at this point if they're all from the team or not.

Up to 8 players from the world juniors team means that there could be anywhere from 1 to 8 players from the world juniors team. If it is 8 players from the team that is nearly a third of the junior team.

Regardless its a weird thing to be hung up about because the lawsuit still alleged that members of the team sexually assaulted her in a gangrape. I think it's pretty heinous if even just one participated, but I don't know, maybe to you there's some acceptable number of world junior players who are allowed to participate in a rape or something before it becomes unacceptable.

No, I’m painting some of the 8 on WJ, and some on CHL players, like was stated in lawsuit.

Ya why would someone get hung up on who the accused /guilty are in a lawsuit lmfao.
All we know is , LESS than 8 are WJ , rest are CHL. Yes we all agree it was terrible.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Yup. Not only do people at Hockey Canada know the names of these rapists but they have most probably been in contact with them, their agents and their legal representatives, who were probably directly involved in negociating the settlement and have no doubt given "generous donations" to hockey canada.

I guess they lied to the government then, Hockey Canada said they don’t know the names, same as the ones that dug up the story, said they don’t know the names.
If the accused didn’t name them, how do anyone know.
Plus it’s not likely the accused would know all WJ players and CHL players names that were involved.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

They explicitly said, under oath, that they didn't know who the 8 players were. They don't. There's no evidence to suggest they did. HC are greasy as hell, but they're not going to perjure themselves. If they knew, and didn't want to say, they'd have danced around it and stammered platitudes like they did with a lot of other questions.

 

[Pink Mist]

No, I’m painting some of the 8 on WJ, and some on CHL players, like was stated in lawsuit.

Ya why would someone get hung up on who the accused /guilty are in a lawsuit lmfao.
All we know is , LESS than 8 are WJ , rest are CHL. Yes we all agree it was terrible.

Cool. If the fact that it might have been 7 world junior players instead of 8 players makes a significant difference to you and worth continously derailing the thread to point that out, more power to you.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Am I the only one thinking that an accusation, without naming names, is all it takes to get a multi million dollar payout? Like Hockey Canada was like "We'd rather not know more, please take our money to make this go away".

There is a good chance, if she couldn't remember names she couldn't provide any real evidence and this could have been defeated in court. People are assuming guilt as well on the players part. I think this would have been a pretty interesting court case going off of memories of someone intoxicated from years ago who can't identify their abuser.

In reality, the players could have done it but had no evidence to convict OR the woman could have made it all up for money reasons. Hockey Canada decided the negative PR would cost the more than just paying without asking questions.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Am I the only one thinking that an accusation, without naming names, is all it takes to get a multi million dollar payout? Like Hockey Canada was like "We'd rather not know more, please take our money to make this go away".

There is a good chance, if she couldn't remember names she couldn't provide any real evidence and this could have been defeated in court. People are assuming guilt as well on the players part. I think this would have been a pretty interesting court case going off of memories of someone intoxicated from years ago who can't identify their abuser.

In reality, the players could have done it but had no evidence to convict OR the woman could have made it all up for money reasons. Hockey Canada decided the negative PR would cost the more than just paying without asking questions.

Procedural due process is THE most important part of any morally justifiable justice system.... here though it looks like Hockey Canada wanted to make the issue go away as quickly as possible and didn't thoroughly investigate. Now it's so long ago that it's too late and would require re-traumatizing the victim.

I think it's generally bad form to go to "maybe she lied and made it all up". That seems very very unlikely in this instance.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Cool. If the fact that it might have been 7 world junior players instead of 8 players makes a significant difference to you and worth continously derailing the thread to point that out, more power to you.

Thanks, Yes,I’m saying there are 2 groups guilty not one.
But if some including the OP want to paint only one group as guilty, when it’s a legal case., go ahead I guess.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Procedural due process is THE most important part of any morally justifiable justice system.... here though it looks like Hockey Canada wanted to make the issue go away as quickly as possible and didn't thoroughly investigate. Now it's so long ago that it's too late and would require re-traumatizing the victim.

I think it's generally bad form to go to "maybe she lied and made it all up". That seems very very unlikely in this instance.

I just think when it's a civil suit for millions of dollars and not a criminal trial, it's not unreasonable to get some sort of proof. I would think the victim would want justice and file police reports, not just a payout.

This is them avoiding bad PR by not believing all women and having the story in the news for months on end following the trial, harassing players with their NHL teams asking them questions they can't legally answer, and the NHL itself getting bad PR for allowing 'rapists' to play when in reality they are in a tough spot here (how can the league go to the Blues and tell them two of their top players are not allowed to play until a civil suit is settled and they are cleared of wrongdoing?)

 

[Golden_Jet]

I just think when it's a civil suit for millions of dollars and not a criminal trial, it's not unreasonable to get some sort of proof. I would think the victim would want justice and file police reports, not just a payout.

This is them avoiding bad PR by not believing all women and having the story in the news for months on end following the trial, harassing players with their NHL teams asking them questions they can't legally answer, and the NHL itself getting bad PR for allowing 'rapists' to play when in reality they are in a tough spot here (how can the league go to the Blues and tell them two of their top players are not allowed to play until a civil suit is settled and they are cleared of wrongdoing?)

Hockey Canada reported it to Police, when they found out.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Hockey Canada reported it to Police, when they found out.

Doesn't really change what I said. She didn't file any reports, instead submitted a lawsuit without any names and was instantly paid millions. I just find that hard to wrap my head around.

 

[soothsayer]

Question for a legal expert in Canada:

Does the NDA signed also cover the players and thus prevent the police from investigating and the courts from prosecuting them?

No, otherwise you would have every criminal organization or transaction running through sham NDAs.

Sort of unrelated, but the lawyers representing Hockey Canada would probably have a pretty good idea of who the individuals being accused are . . .

 

[Jeune Poulet]

According to earlier reports she also didn't want to talk to the police and that's being missed by many.

Yeah, I've seeen you and a couple of other people insisting on framing this in the worst possible light for the victim. You should be ashamed.

Read this gut-wrenching TSN report again.

Hockey Canada, CHL settle lawsuit over alleged sexual assault involving World Junior players - TSN.ca

A woman who alleged she was sexually assaulted by eight Canadian Hockey League players, including members of Canada’s gold medal-winning 2017-18 World Junior team, has agreed to drop a lawsuit against the players, Hockey Canada, and the CHL after reaching a settlement.

www.tsn.ca

It details not only in reat detail the abject way the victim was treated but also clearly state:

The John Doe defendants pressured her to not report the players to police and to not cooperate with a criminal investigation after it was initiated.

I've heard several news outlets in Vancouver have some of their journalists take phone calls about the problem of "hockey culture" where hockey as a whole gets vilified and it makes great radio but does little to help the overall problems of young men making bad choices being away from their family and alcohol and woman are out there

Wow... I like how you frame the issue: The poor young men facing "alcohol and women out there".

Like, do you live in the 50s? Next you're going to tell us about the evils of temptations like mini-skirts and tank tops.

People like you are the problem.

 

[Alicat]

No, otherwise you would have every criminal organization or transaction running through sham NDAs.

Sort of unrelated, but the lawyers representing Hockey Canada would probably have a pretty good idea of who the individuals being accused are . . .

Thanks! I suspected that was the case

 

[Hasbro]

So you're telling me an organization giving another money would place conditions on that?

 

[Cas]

Doesn't really change what I said. She didn't file any reports, instead submitted a lawsuit without any names and was instantly paid millions. I just find that hard to wrap my head around.

People do that because, if they go to the police and try to make a criminal case out of this, they'll get dragged through the gutter while the police and prosecutors and media wring their hands over "ruining some good young mens' lives," most likely ending in a failed case where the perpetrators go free and the victim gets nothing. That's usually how these things go.

 

[HockeyVirus]

People do that because, if they go to the police and try to make a criminal case out of this, they'll get dragged through the gutter while the police and prosecutors and media wring their hands over "ruining some good young mens' lives," most likely ending in a failed case where the perpetrators go free and the victim gets nothing. That's usually how these things go.

Maybe years ago with the police, but absolutely laughable to imply the media would ride that narrative when they trip overthemselves to virtue signal any chance they have.

If the police write you off, that's where you go to the media. It got to the media either way. But the pressure would have been massive. THEN you can bring a civil suit against the NHL during peak bad PR and ask for a higher amount.

Of course I understand victims don't want to air their shame everywhere. My issue was always just with writing a huge check without looking into it at all.

 

[BadgerBruce]

My expectation is that president (and incoming CEO) Scott Smith and the Board Chair, Michael Brind’Amour, will both resign. I’m shocked that Brind’Amour was not called to testify by the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. I’d want to hear directly from him … he’s been conspicuously silent/invisible. My expectation is that the HC board will soon call for Smith’s resignation if he does not voluntarily step down.

Tom Renney will be spared the ignominy of resigning because his retirement occurs in a few days, and Glen McCurdie, the former Senior Vice President, Insurance and Risk Management, retired a few months ago and thus will also escape largely unscathed.

This isn’t bad. We shouldn’t need mass public hangings to clean house at Hockey Canada.

In the event that nobody (other than the retirees) resigns or is fired, my worst fears will be confirmed: loyalty to “our guys” (“Team Canada”) trumps absolutely everything. That is probably the root of the so-called hockey culture problem and helps explain why a significant number of players refused to speak to Henein Hutchison LLP. Loyalty to the Team and all that. When even the Boards and paid staffers of sport governing bodies care first and foremost about protecting themselves and their charges, instead of doing what reasonable people know is right, it’s time for a thorough housecleaning.

 

[WarriorofTime]

My expectation is that president (and incoming CEO) Scott Smith and the Board Chair, Michael Brind’Amour, will both resign. I’m shocked that Brind’Amour was not called to testify by the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage. I’d want to hear directly from him … he’s been conspicuously silent/invisible. My expectation is that the HC board will soon call for Smith’s resignation if he does not voluntarily step down.

Tom Renney will be spared the ignominy of resigning because his retirement occurs in a few days, and Glen McCurdie, the former Senior Vice President, Insurance and Risk Management, retired a few months ago and thus will also escape largely unscathed.

This isn’t bad. We shouldn’t need mass public hangings to clean house at Hockey Canada.

In the event that nobody (other than the retirees) resigns or is fired, my worst fears will be confirmed: loyalty to “our guys” (“Team Canada”) trumps absolutely everything. That is probably the root of the so-called hockey culture problem and helps explain why a significant number of players refused to speak to Henein Hutchison LLP. Loyalty to the Team and all that. When even the Boards and paid staffers of sport governing bodies care first and foremost about protecting themselves and their charges, instead of doing what reasonable people know is right, it’s time for a thorough housecleaning.

The Chairman of the Board may not be involved in the day-to-day. Not sure if approving a settlement decision is a Board level decision. I don't really know the governance structure or who even "owns" Hockey Canada, I assume it's a non-profit?