Canadian Government Freezing Hockey Canada Funding- (2018 Canada World Jr Team Alleged Sexual Assault)

[BadgerBruce]

According to this timeline, TSN first reported it on May 26, so I presume it was Westhead among others.

Yes, Westhead broke the story, but any journalist who took the time to read the alleged victim’s statement of claim filed with the court could have done the same thing. Too few journalists these days are willing to do the legwork. Westhead is a rare exception.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

We're any of the players under 18 when this happened?

Also curious how many were only 18 and if underage drinking was part of this...not that it excuses it but could cause more problems for some parties involved. May also give everyone an excuse to have amnesia when they're compelled to participate in the new investigation.


Plus with all the Olympics we've missed now ... How big of a stick does HC really have to compel participation?

No, I think only Formenton and Thomas were under 19

 

[red devil]

 

[wetcoast]

As people are going through the list of that 2018 WJC team, it's important to note the wording of what Westhead has written:

"A woman who alleges she was sexually assaulted in 2018 by 8 Canadian Hockey League players, including some who were on Canada's World Juniors team"

We don't know how many involved were actually on that team. Could be 2. Could be 3. Could be 7. But I'd avoid going through the list and doing any sort of elimination process based on who's made public statements and who hasn't. I've even heard MP's use statements like, "there were only 18 players on that team..." completely disregarding this and perpetuating the notion that the unifying factor amongst the players was being on the WJC team, which isn't the case.

(mod)

HC is an easy public target here but the alleged victim also didn't want to co operate with the police investigation or the HC one at the time and some people simply don't understand how important that is in the timeline and decisions made at that time in the timeline.

 

[I am toxic]

As people are going through the list of that 2018 WJC team, it's important to note the wording of what Westhead has written:

"A woman who alleges she was sexually assaulted in 2018 by 8 Canadian Hockey League players, including some who were on Canada's World Juniors team"

We don't know how many involved were actually on that team. Could be 2. Could be 3. Could be 7. But I'd avoid going through the list and doing any sort of elimination process based on who's made public statements and who hasn't. I've even heard MP's use statements like, "there were only 18 players on that team..." completely disregarding this and perpetuating the notion that the unifying factor amongst the players was being on the WJC team, which isn't the case.

According to the Globe and Mail, 7 of the 8 were on Canada's World Juniors team.

@BadgerBruce , yeah, you could say they are all lawyered up.

At least the Supreme Court - on June 30 - upheld the rape shield laws that were passed in 2018. That Henein law firm must be in conniptions, now that one of their avenues for attacking rape victims/survivors has been limited. Well, six of the nine justices, anyway.

 

[wetcoast]

(mod)

HC is an easy public target here but the alleged victim also didn't want to co operate with the police investigation or the HC one at the time and some people simply don't understand how important that is in the timeline and decisions made at that time in the timeline.

Okay I'll rephrase it then since the obvious can't be stated.

Is the government committee several years after the incident purely investigating this situation strictly about the situation or are other factors at play?

If it's a criminal matter then the police and justice department should be the ones investigating one would think.

 

[wetcoast]

According to the Globe and Mail, 7 of the 8 were on Canada's World Juniors team.

@BadgerBruce , yeah, you could say they are all lawyered up.

At least the Supreme Court - on June 30 - upheld the rape shield laws that were passed in 2018. That Henein law firm must be in conniptions, now that one of their avenues for attacking rape victims/survivors has been limited. Well, six of the nine justices, anyway.

There seems to be conflicting reports, and some speculation, as the victim has never revealed the identity of the 8 young men involved.

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upjobsnews.com

Various articles will say slightly different things and it might be an editing function but at the end of the day it does draw more attention if there are more members of the WJHC than just average CHLers.

I'm also not a lawyer but it's easy to see that the recent Supreme court ruling with have lots of legal warts to wrangle out in upcoming trials as noted at the end of the article quoted.

One of the issues is the balancing of rights, where historically criminals cases dealt specifically with the rights of the accused and there has been a progression of including victims rights in the criminal process and as a process that is still being worked out.

As quoted in the article

Daniel Brown, a defence attorney and vice-president of the Criminal Lawyers Association, who were interveners in the case, said the court decision is "disappointing" because it lacks clarity on what specific records must be included in the screening process, and could add significant amounts of time to the court process.

What if, Brown asked, there are hundreds of thousands of text messages between spouses who are later in court in a sexual assault case: Does the defence have to ask the judge have to go through every message to determine admissibility in case one of those messages later becomes relevant to the defence?

"We're going to spend days of court time examining particular messages and determining, 'does this meet this broad definition of privacy that the Supreme Court has articulated?'"

Brown said allowing a complainant to participate in the screening process, with a lawyer, gives a complainant in a sexual assault case access to information that could help tailor the evidence they give on the stand, knowing what the defence is going to ask about.

"It gives the complainant an unfair advantage that doesn't exist in any other criminal case."

Sorry I'm not up to speed on how to insert quotes obviously here on the new site.

 

[I am toxic]

There seems to be conflicting reports, and some speculation, as the victim has never revealed the identity of the 8 young men involved.
.

Several of the lawyers met with the Globe and Mail just a couple days ago. There are zero conflicting reports. Cut the bullshit.

There is no doubt that 7 of the 8 were on that Canadian World Junior team.

But yeah, let's have law firms like Henein ambush rape victims/survivors, lest we face "legal warts".

Pathetic. Absolutely 100% pathetic.

Did I say 100%? I meant 1000%. Beyond absolutely.

 

[JackieDaytona]

That globe and mail article says 7 of 8 were CHL players, didn’t specify they were members of the wj Canada team. Is there another source that does specify?

 

[wetcoast]

Several of the lawyers met with the Globe and Mail just a couple days ago. There are zero conflicting reports. Cut the bullshit.

There is no doubt that 7 of the 8 were on that Canadian World Junior team.

But yeah, let's have law firms like Henein ambush rape victims/survivors, lest we face "legal warts".

Pathetic. Absolutely 100% pathetic.

Did I say 100%? I meant 1000%. Beyond absolutely.

I read the article and sure one could infer (and if one was taking a probable guess they are probably being represented for more than just image or being associated with being on that team) that there could be 7 of the 8 guys in the assault from that team but that's not how it was stated directly though and in the second paragraph it was stated differently as 8 CHL players and since none of this is official we still really don't know.

Lawyers representing seven members of the 2018 world junior hockey team are criticizing Hockey Canada’s handling of the settlement of a sexual-assault lawsuit, saying the players weren’t notified of the court action and co-operated fully with a police investigation that concluded without charges.

In May, Hockey Canada settled a lawsuit with a woman who alleged that she had been sexually assaulted by eight Canadian Hockey League players in London, Ont., in June, 2018, after a Hockey Canada fundraising gala.

That still leaves doubt but does it even make a difference if they were members of that team or just CHL guys?

Yes probably in terms of publicity.

I wonder if you have even read the article you left a link to as it allows for judges to have a hearing about including evidence but I guess in your legal world firms like Henin should be outlawed and abolished?

The legal process is a serious matter and every defendant should and must get the best defense possible to them but that doesn't fly with the court of public opinion.

The involvement of the Heritage committee while it might bring out the "truth" is also fraught with becoming a bit of a sideshow and distraction for other obvious reasons that can't be stated here.

Once again, aside from whatever crimes may have been committed here (as we won't probably ever know unless it's brought before a criminal judge) some lessons learned here should be for young people to avoid drinking and engaging in sexual relations with people one doesn't really know all that well or to put it in a more general context Wayne Gretzky never left himself in the same room (elevator was the example given) when only another woman was present to avoid the possibility of any accusation of wrongdoing.

That globe and mail article says 7 of 8 were CHL players, didn’t specify they were members of the wj Canada team. Is there another source that does specify?

It was inferred from the first paragraph and then made a little unclear with the second one and hasn't been factually stated yet.

But like I stated why should it even matter?

 

[JackieDaytona]

I read the article and sure one could infer (and if one was taking a probable guess they are probably being represented for more than just image or being associated with being on that team) that there could be 7 of the 8 guys in the assault from that team but that's not how it was stated directly though and in the second paragraph it was stated differently as 8 CHL players and since none of this is official we still really don't know.





That still leaves doubt but does it even make a difference if they were members of that team or just CHL guys?

Yes probably in terms of publicity.

I wonder if you have even read the article you left a link to as it allows for judges to have a hearing about including evidence but I guess in your legal world firms like Henin should be outlawed and abolished?

The legal process is a serious matter and every defendant should and must get the best defense possible to them but that doesn't fly with the court of public opinion.

The involvement of the Heritage committee while it might bring out the "truth" is also fraught with becoming a bit of a sideshow and distraction for other obvious reasons that can't be stated here.

Once again, aside from whatever crimes may have been committed here (as we won't probably ever know unless it's brought before a criminal judge) some lessons learned here should be for young people to avoid drinking and engaging in sexual relations with people one doesn't really know all that well or to put it in a more general context Wayne Gretzky never left himself in the same room (elevator was the example given) when only another woman was present to avoid the possibility of any accusation of wrongdoing.


It was inferred from the first paragraph and then made a little unclear with the second one and hasn't been factually stated yet.

But like I stated why should it even matter?

Agreed that it should not matter when and if it comes out that rape or sexual assault took place. But there are many people making assumptions about the identities of the accused based on team Canada membership. That pool of possibilities is much smaller than any CHL player who may have been at the event or the after party.

 

[Masked]

There is no doubt that 7 of the 8 were on that Canadian World Junior team.

There is plenty of doubt because the media has been incompetent at keeping the facts straight. The media has gone back and forth with referring to players as members of the WJ team or CHL players.

Assen na yo!

 

[I am toxic]

There is plenty of doubt because the media has been incompetent at keeping the facts straight. The media has gone back and forth with referring to players as members of the WJ team or CHL players.

Assen na yo!

No, there is no doubt. A player can be a CHL player and have been on the WJ team as well.

7 of the 8 were on the WJ team.

But yeah, post the link and quote the "media" that didn't keep the facts straight. Let's see this incompetence.

Unless it's garbage media like twitter or facebook, don't even waste my time further.

 

[didimentionlarseller]

those rapists better hope none of the public facilities they were in with the victim before the attack had cameras or surveillance including wherever the attack happened (im guessing a hotel)

it will be soooo easy to put together the attacker list and should have quality black and white video or even colour videos of those creeps arriving and leaving the scene of the rape

im not really getting people in this thread acting like this is some mystery that can never be solved and no-one can ever know the id for sure - there are literally cameras everywhere

this is ignoring the victim also obviously being able to id her attackers

 

[JackieDaytona]

No, there is no doubt. A player can be a CHL player and have been on the WJ team as well.

7 of the 8 were on the WJ team.

But yeah, post the link and quote the "media" that didn't keep the facts straight. Let's see this incompetence.

Unless it's garbage media like twitter or facebook, don't even waste my time further.

But that is not what has been said in these articles, anywhere. A player can be in CHL and on wj team, but the reverse is true as well and given numbers, more likely. A person can be a CHL player and NOT on the wj team. The assumption is that these were wj players, but we’ve not confirmed that, only that they were CHL players. That’s why we shouldn’t rush to any assumptions about the identity of the accused, and frankly, about what actually happened until we have better information and detail.

 

[wetcoast]

those rapists better hope none of the public facilities they were in with the victim before the attack had cameras or surveillance including wherever the attack happened (im guessing a hotel)

it will be soooo easy to put together the attacker list and should have quality black and white video or even colour videos of those creeps arriving and leaving the scene of the rape

im not really getting people in this thread acting like this is some mystery that can never be solved and no-one can ever know the id for sure - there are literally cameras everywhere

this is ignoring the victim also obviously being able to id her attackers

There are cameras in a lot of places but I doubt that many facilities will keep a record for years.

 

[JackieDaytona]

those rapists better hope none of the public facilities they were in with the victim before the attack had cameras or surveillance including wherever the attack happened (im guessing a hotel)

it will be soooo easy to put together the attacker list and should have quality black and white video or even colour videos of those creeps arriving and leaving the scene of the rape

im not really getting people in this thread acting like this is some mystery that can never be solved and no-one can ever know the id for sure - there are literally cameras everywhere

this is ignoring the victim also obviously being able to id her attackers

What? So having images or video of being in the vicinity of a victim or place of an alleged crime should be evidence of guilt? That’s not quite enough, thankfully.

I’m all for punishment for the guilty when that is proven, but we’re not there yet, and people shouldn’t be assumed guilty before it’s clear they are.

 

[I am toxic]

That globe and mail article says 7 of 8 were CHL players, didn’t specify they were members of the wj Canada team. Is there another source that does specify?

Globe and Mail:

Lawyers representing seven members of the 2018 world junior hockey team are criticizing Hockey Canada's handling of the settlement of a sexual-assault lawsuit

In a meeting with the Globe and Mail this week, the lawyers expressed frustration with Hockey Canada

They literally state it at the beginning of the article, and this after speaking to several of the lawyers directly.

Do you have a source that says otherwise? A source as credible as the Globe and Mail? As credible as journalists for a national paper that just met with several of the lawyers for the players in question?

Like, why am I even discussing this?* I post an article which states it clearly at the very beginning, and in return I get multiple posts of falsehoods, deflection and misdirection.

* who am I kidding, look at my username - I love wallowing in the mud of the dregs of the internet. Keep it comin'

 

[Masked]

No, there is no doubt. A player can be a CHL player and have been on the WJ team as well.

7 of the 8 were on the WJ team.

But yeah, post the link and quote the "media" that didn't keep the facts straight. Let's see this incompetence.

Try to pay attention to the details. And just the ones that support your opinion.

Rick Westhead:

Hockey Canada and the CHL were named as defendants in the case, as were eight unnamed CHL players “including but not limited to members of the Canada U20 Men’s Junior Hockey Team.”

Hockey Canada, CHL settle lawsuit over alleged sexual assault involving World Junior players - TSN.ca

A woman who alleged she was sexually assaulted by eight Canadian Hockey League players, including members of Canada’s gold medal-winning 2017-18 World Junior team, has agreed to drop a lawsuit against the players, Hockey Canada, and the CHL after reaching a settlement.

www.tsn.ca

Joshua Clipperton:

Hockey Canada settled the lawsuit in May after a woman claimed she was sexually assaulted by eight members of the country's 2018 world junior hockey team at a gala event in June of that year.

Hockey Canada grilled over alleged sexual assault, settlement

Hockey Canada executives were under fire Monday as parliamentarians grilled the organization over its handling of an alleged sexual assault four years ago that resulted in a settled lawsuit last month.

www.ctvnews.ca

The Canadian Press:

Hockey Canada and the Canadian Hockey League have reportedly settled a lawsuit with a woman who claimed she was sexually assaulted by eight members of the 2018 Canadian world junior hockey team.

Hockey Canada settles suit over alleged sexual assault involving world junior players

Hockey Canada and the Canadian Hockey League have reportedly settled a lawsuit with a woman who claimed she was sexually assaulted by eight members of the 2018 Canadian world junior hockey team.

www.thestar.com

Is that good enough for you?

Assen na yo!

 

[didimentionlarseller]

What? So having images or video of being in the vicinity of a victim or place of an alleged crime should be evidence of guilt? That’s not quite enough, thankfully.

I’m all for punishment for the guilty when that is proven, but we’re not there yet, and people shouldn’t be assumed guilty before it’s clear they are.

it places them at the scene of a crime would be the point legally - I agree its not quite enough its own in a vacuum but cases get built with evidence like this

this evidence combined with a victim statement in court also identifying them as an attacker is powerful evidence

 

[Masked]

it places them at the scene of a crime would be the point legally - I agree its not quite enough its own in a vacuum but cases get built with evidence like this

this evidence combined with a victim statement in court also identifying them as an attacker is powerful evidence

Except the players don't dispute being there. Their defence is that the activities were consensual or they left the room without participating.

Assen na yo!

 

[I am toxic]

Try to pay attention to the details. And just the ones that support your opinion.

Rick Westhead:

Hockey Canada and the CHL were named as defendants in the case, as were eight unnamed CHL players “including but not limited to members of the Canada U20 Men’s Junior Hockey Team.”

Hockey Canada, CHL settle lawsuit over alleged sexual assault involving World Junior players - TSN.ca

A woman who alleged she was sexually assaulted by eight Canadian Hockey League players, including members of Canada’s gold medal-winning 2017-18 World Junior team, has agreed to drop a lawsuit against the players, Hockey Canada, and the CHL after reaching a settlement.

www.tsn.ca

Joshua Clipperton:

Hockey Canada settled the lawsuit in May after a woman claimed she was sexually assaulted by eight members of the country's 2018 world junior hockey team at a gala event in June of that year.

Hockey Canada grilled over alleged sexual assault, settlement

Hockey Canada executives were under fire Monday as parliamentarians grilled the organization over its handling of an alleged sexual assault four years ago that resulted in a settled lawsuit last month.

www.ctvnews.ca

The Canadian Press:

Hockey Canada and the Canadian Hockey League have reportedly settled a lawsuit with a woman who claimed she was sexually assaulted by eight members of the 2018 Canadian world junior hockey team.

Hockey Canada settles suit over alleged sexual assault involving world junior players

Hockey Canada and the Canadian Hockey League have reportedly settled a lawsuit with a woman who claimed she was sexually assaulted by eight members of the 2018 Canadian world junior hockey team.

www.thestar.com

Is that good enough for you?

Assen na yo!

The woman didn't realize that one of them wasn't on the world junior team, hence she understandably claimed eight instead of seven.

The media correctly reported that she claimed eight. That statement of claim was a matter of public record.

We know after further investigation that in fact one of them was not on that team.

As the media also correctly reported.

But yeah, blame the media (falsely, in this case) for other people's reading comprehension problems.

Someone needs to pay attention to details. It isn't me.

 

[didimentionlarseller]

Except the players don't dispute being there. Their defence is that the activities were consensual or they left the room without participating.

Assen na yo!

I look forward to them having their day in court to explain how it was consensual

there is a victim who says it was not - and for some reason HC attempted to pay her off and silence her even tho the players "activities were consensual or they left the room without participating". Can we get a list of guys who left the room without participating id like to applaud them also

I just think the idea that its impossible to know who the players are is wishful thinking, by those players

 

[Uncle Rotter]

There are cameras in a lot of places but I doubt that many facilities will keep a record for years.

If they ever existed, they would have been part of the initial police investigation.

 

[didimentionlarseller]

If they ever existed, they would have been part of the initial police investigation.

yea I agree - also any lawyer representing the victim would also check video records out of basic routine I would hope