Canada's 2003 world hockey junior team also accused of group sexual assault

[Auston Marlander]

Rafa Nadal in tennis always talks about how when he was growing up, his uncle who was also his coach would always drill into him the idea that he’s not special just because he’s good at a game where he hits a ball back and forth over the net.

These WJC players behave like scum and I 100% blame them and no one else but it’s hard to be surprised when you elevate a bunch of teenagers to temporarily feeling like some of the biggest celebrities in the country

A huge part of the issue is, at least in Canada, the better hockey players are treated like gods by their peers. They also get special treatment in school to play a game. Beyond that hockey parents in Canada can be the absolute worst. Looking back my father was a very different person around the rink than he was at home. The good news is I've seen that and while my child is young now, if they ever get to the point I did in hockey I'll learn from my father's mistakes. I hope other parents can do the same.

 

[Melrose Munch]

NFL has had 17 players arrested in 2022.

17.

2021 is even worse.

That's way less than usual, and we know their names. Do you you know the players involved in this incident?

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Please don't be MAF.
Please don't be MAF.
Please don't be MAF.

My thoughts exactly when reading the ‘03 roster.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Really wish the mods would take out some of the trash posters who expose themselves in these types of threads.

Did you get your ignore privileges revoked?

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Did you get your ignore privileges revoked?

Nope.

 

[red devil]

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Glad it only took about 5 decades for folks to sit up and notice.

 

[Luigi Habs]

I've always felt the WJC grew way too large and Canadians/media put too much pressure and glorified these amateur teenage kids. It became so commercialized and grew so big I don't think the kids and Hockey Canada were/are prepared for it, I miss the days of it being played in small rinks with a few fans not primetime in NHL rinks.

That being said it's inexcusable and absolutely disgusting what these teams are being accused of. There is an element of hockey culture that is toxic and these kids probably shouldn't be sent off on their own at 16 years of age with no real authority and given local celebrity status. The party/alcohol drinking culture in Jr hockey and Canada in general is not good. It's sad that it is so common for a teenage girl can binge drink so much she becomes unresponsive and infuriating and disgusting that people would take advantage of that.

Yes there is obviously a major problem with Canadian hockey culture, but there is also drinking/party culture in Canada that never gets talked about. I think most Canadians grew up with it being far to common for themselves or friends getting blackout drunk atleast once or a few times in their youth. Drinking culture is bad in Canada and is something I hope changes when my kids get older.

This party and getting drunk culture is not exclusive to Canada. It’s pretty much everywhere in the world specially in the 16-25 yrs age group

 

[ozzie]

This party and getting drunk culture is not exclusive to Canada. It’s pretty much everywhere in the world specially in the 16-25 yrs age group

Outside of North America, not sure I really agree with this. Don't a lot of European Hockey Powers have some mandatory Army type service for 1 or 2 years? My impression, unless proven wrong is this type of crap doesn't seem to happen in Sweden or Finland for example. I'm not even sure those players are idolized or treated the same as in Canada. I just assume these countries have a bit more structure for their young athletes.

 

[Snippit]

Does the article claim that the video identifies the 6 players?

If they can’t be identified from video, it may be challenging to determine the perpetrators. This is a nearly 20 year old event, gathering information won’t be a walk in the park.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

Does the article claim that the video identifies the 6 players?

If they can’t be identified from video, it may be challenging to determine the perpetrators. This is a nearly 20 year old event, gathering information won’t be a walk in the park.

The article is written to deliberately avoid the topic of the identity of everyone involved in the alleged rape.

However, the article claims repeatedly that the rapists taking turns on the victim in the alleged video were "players from team Canada 2003". The only way the sources could know and reasonably claim the rapists they saw were Team Canada 2003 players would be to have identified the persons.

It is extremely troubling that Westhead doesn't even brush the subject of identification of the players or the victim in his article. It's either done on purpose, and no explanation is given, or he lamentably failed at his job.

 

[TopChedder]

Hockey Canada is a mess

Sadly this happens in any hockey program featuring entitled teenage draft pics.

Hockey Canada just happen to get caught.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Really wish the mods would take out some of the trash posters who expose themselves in these types of threads.

Frustrating to read, but they fuel more and more responses and keep these threads active and more likely to attract eyes and interest in the discussion/problem.

 

[Chips]

The article is written to deliberately avoid the topic of the identity of everyone involved in the alleged rape.

However, the article claims repeatedly that the rapists taking turns on the victim in the alleged video were "players from team Canada 2003". The only way the sources could know and reasonably claim the rapists they saw were Team Canada 2003 players would be to have identified the persons.

It is extremely troubling that Westhead doesn't even brush the subject of identification of the players or the victim in his article. It's either done on purpose, and no explanation is given, or he lamentably failed at his job.

Couldn’t he and his anonymous sources (if he gives them up?) get sued for throwing out names without the video? Idk how easy it is in Canada.

He says his sources would be willing to testify anonymously to the Govt if I remember, unless I’m conflating something in his article but I’m pretty sure he said that.

 

[Jeune Poulet]

Couldn’t he and his anonymous sources (if he gives them up?) get sued for throwing out names without the video? Idk how easy it is in Canada.

He says his sources would be willing to testify anonymously to the Govt if I remember, unless I’m conflating something in his article but I’m pretty sure he said that.

It would be very difficult to successfully sue Westhead if he took the necessary precautions in his reporting: emphasizing that these are unproven allegations by anonymous source. Also emphasizing that he failed to locate a copy of this video. Basically, making it clearer that the allegations are the story.

You're right, his sources are a lot more liable and at risk if they drop names and then renounce anonymity.

it's still his job to address this in his article, instead of letting everyone speculate. A simple "Our sources recognized X number of players but refused to reveal their names" would already a major step.

 

[Shawn Heins 44]

Outside of North America, not sure I really agree with this. Don't a lot of European Hockey Powers have some mandatory Army type service for 1 or 2 years? My impression, unless proven wrong is this type of crap doesn't seem to happen in Sweden or Finland for example. I'm not even sure those players are idolized or treated the same as in Canada. I just assume these countries have a bit more structure for their young athletes.

Can only speak for Switzerland, this would definitely not happen as 0 girls would even know who any junior hockey player is. I am sure f'd up sh** like this happens also here in society but in terms of hockey, young players are just really not that famous (actually also adult players probably barely get recognized on the street).

 

[Cotton]

Really wish the mods would take out some of the trash posters who expose themselves in these types of threads.

Because you and them share different opinions? Frankly, anyone jumping the gun and condemning people prematurely is just as worthy of being "taken out" as anyone assuming the alleged victim has a monetary motive... Or we can always just ignore people we don't agree with.


I just read a threads worth of hockey fans who don't know what culture means, and have incorrectly associated sexual assault to hockey culture, which is a mind numbingly stupid statement. I also read some of these same people imply these crimes, if they had occurred, are Canada specific. This thread has gone full Twitter.

The Patrick Kane case is a reminder to not fly off the handle in assuming guilt. I'm a by the books kinda person, innocent until proven (Proven) guilty. If that happens I'm all aboard the let's torch the sons of bitches train ... but I have come across too many cases of guys doing time, or having their reputations and lives ruined over bogus claims, so patience is always best.

But if there is video available, not just three people who claim to have seen it nearly 20 years ago, this should be dealt with pretty quickly. Perhaps we even get to see some prison sentences.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Can only speak for Switzerland, this would definitely not happen as 0 girls would even know who any junior hockey player is. I am sure f'd up sh** like this happens also here in society but in terms of hockey, young players are just really not that famous (actually also adult players probably barely get recognized on the street).

What about soccer over there?

 

[Kiekura]

Outside of North America, not sure I really agree with this. Don't a lot of European Hockey Powers have some mandatory Army type service for 1 or 2 years? My impression, unless proven wrong is this type of crap doesn't seem to happen in Sweden or Finland for example. I'm not even sure those players are idolized or treated the same as in Canada. I just assume these countries have a bit more structure for their young athletes.

Europeans drink even more than people in North America. In Finland lots of people start drinking when they 14-15 or even younger. But it is super common for people at that age to gather up and drink.

But there hasn't been any cases like this with hockey in Finland. Or with any sport on that matter.

 

[Patrik Barkov]

Outside of North America, not sure I really agree with this. Don't a lot of European Hockey Powers have some mandatory Army type service for 1 or 2 years? My impression, unless proven wrong is this type of crap doesn't seem to happen in Sweden or Finland for example. I'm not even sure those players are idolized or treated the same as in Canada. I just assume these countries have a bit more structure for their young athletes.

My friend circle has many young hockey players anywhere from beer league to Liiga. Most of them party just like any other young kid and they do get their fair share of attention from women.

Having spent my whole life surrounded by examples of hockey culture I'm not too surprised to hear these stories coming out. Disgusted yes, but not surprised.

I'd say most of the guys in hockey I know are good people but are more or less douchebags with women since they've learned they can get away with it since they were pre-teens. Nothing even close to this level of stuff though.

To answer your question from my point of view. Young hockey players are more or less the same everywhere in the western world. Most of them party and enjoy the attention of women. Military service for them is almost always only 6 months and it isn't some boot camp that straightens kids up. More of a long summer (or winter) camp with the boys where you learn to be a somewhat capable soldier.

 

[Blender]

Because you and them share different opinions? Frankly, anyone jumping the gun and condemning people prematurely is just as worthy of being "taken out" as anyone assuming the alleged victim has a monetary motive... Or we can always just ignore people we don't agree with.


I just read a threads worth of hockey fans who don't know what culture means, and have incorrectly associated sexual assault to hockey culture, which is a mind numbingly stupid statement. I also read some of these same people imply these crimes, if they had occurred, are Canada specific. This thread has gone full Twitter.

The Patrick Kane case is a reminder to not fly off the handle in assuming guilt. I'm a by the books kinda person, innocent until proven (Proven) guilty. If that happens I'm all aboard the let's torch the sons of bitches train ... but I have come across too many cases of guys doing time, or having their reputations and lives ruined over bogus claims, so patience is always best.

But if there is video available, not just three people who claim to have seen it nearly 20 years ago, this should be dealt with pretty quickly. Perhaps we even get to see some prison sentences.

Only about 2.5% of people who commit sexual assault will ever be convicted and serve time based on studies done. The burden of proof in civil cases, including in matters of employment or contracts, is much lower than the burden of proof in criminal cases. In a civil case you only need to prove the claim based on the balance of probabilities, not beyond a reasonable doubt.

I understand the drive many have to not "assuming guilt" until it is proven during a criminal trial beyond a reasonable doubt, but it is neither practical based on reality nor is it the burden of proof required for other actions.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Only about 2.5% of people who commit sexual assault will ever be convicted and serve time based on studies done. The burden of proof in civil cases, including in matters of employment or contracts, is much lower than the burden of proof in criminal cases. In a civil case you only need to prove the claim based on the balance of probabilities, not beyond a reasonable doubt.

I understand the drive many have to not "assuming guilt" until it is proven during a criminal trial beyond a reasonable doubt, but it is neither practical based on reality nor is it the burden of proof required for other actions.

This is unknowable unless the study was done by an omnipresent being

 

[Blender]

This is unknowable unless the study was done by an omnipresent being

The Criminal Justice System: Statistics | RAINN

The majority of perpetrators of sexual assault will not go to prison.

www.rainn.org

JustFacts - Sexual Assault

Department of Justice Canada's Internet site

www.justice.gc.ca

From arrest to conviction: Court case outcomes of police-reported sexual assaults in Canada, 2009 to 2014

This Juristat measures the 'fall-out' of sexual assault cases in the Canadian criminal justice system in order to provide vital context for how sexual assaults are handled in the justice system.

www150.statcan.gc.ca

Only 1 in 10 substantiated sex assaults result in conviction: StatsCan | Globalnews.ca

Statistics Canada says the conviction rate for substantiated sex assaults between 2009 and 2014 was only 12 per cent.

globalnews.ca

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Because you and them share different opinions? Frankly, anyone jumping the gun and condemning people prematurely is just as worthy of being "taken out" as anyone assuming the alleged victim has a monetary motive... Or we can always just ignore people we don't agree with.


I just read a threads worth of hockey fans who don't know what culture means, and have incorrectly associated sexual assault to hockey culture, which is a mind numbingly stupid statement. I also read some of these same people imply these crimes, if they had occurred, are Canada specific. This thread has gone full Twitter.

The Patrick Kane case is a reminder to not fly off the handle in assuming guilt. I'm a by the books kinda person, innocent until proven (Proven) guilty. If that happens I'm all aboard the let's torch the sons of bitches train ... but I have come across too many cases of guys doing time, or having their reputations and lives ruined over bogus claims, so patience is always best.

But if there is video available, not just three people who claim to have seen it nearly 20 years ago, this should be dealt with pretty quickly. Perhaps we even get to see some prison sentences.

You wrote a pretty long response but completely missed the point. It’s not a matter of having a differing opinion and it’s not the fact that they aren’t rushing to condemn the accused. Some opinions should not be acceptable in society. When you have posters automatically blaming the victims saying things like “what did she think was going to happen?” and other such crap like that it isn’t right. It’s surprising some of the things people are willing to write but I guess they can hide behind they’re screen name so they’re emboldened. Hf would be a better place if that trash would be taken out.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

The Criminal Justice System: Statistics | RAINN

The majority of perpetrators of sexual assault will not go to prison.

www.rainn.org

JustFacts - Sexual Assault

Department of Justice Canada's Internet site

www.justice.gc.ca

From arrest to conviction: Court case outcomes of police-reported sexual assaults in Canada, 2009 to 2014

This Juristat measures the 'fall-out' of sexual assault cases in the Canadian criminal justice system in order to provide vital context for how sexual assaults are handled in the justice system.

www150.statcan.gc.ca

Only 1 in 10 substantiated sex assaults result in conviction: StatsCan | Globalnews.ca

Statistics Canada says the conviction rate for substantiated sex assaults between 2009 and 2014 was only 12 per cent.

globalnews.ca

You’re right I misread your post