GDT: Canada vs Finland (U18)

[Czechboy]

My hunch says you'd get a lot of feedback.

LOL... you got your feedback.

I'm removing myself here as this really isn't my fight and I don't care who wins the argument. I think you're both great!

 

[AB13]

Okay you don't hate Finnish hockey but just you dislike it which you have said many times.. BTW you have some problems with using letters correctly.

You think I dislike Finnish hockey because I argue in favour of my own country? I am not ever going around randomly dissing Finnish hockey for no reason. I usually talk about Finnish hockey when someone compares the hockey program of Finland to the hockey program of Sweden.

Obviously, I support every team that plays against Finland in hockey. But that doesn’t mean I hate Finnish hockey. You are the same way right?

 

[AB13]

For example Canadians start with big C. Swedes start with big S. Finland or Finnish start with again big F.

Thank you mate. In Swedish it’s the other way round.

 

[Backcheckmonster3]

I´ve only ever put like 2 people on the ignore list here and see people arguing with a ghost

 

[IceHockeyDude]

Obviously, I support every team that plays against Finland in hockey. But that doesn’t mean I hate Finnish hockey. You are the same way right?

Nope, I think Swedes are our brothers. I support Sweden usually.

 

[Czechboy]

Overall medals is a whole different story and Sweden win that comfortably though but I guess people don’t think other medal round games are ”clutch games”? I think Sweden have been better than Finland in juniors recently for many reasons but consistency is the main one (there are some very long streaks that support that and gold isn’t everything). It’s also weird that people don’t look at Hlinka since it suits their argument I guess.

But yeah, this particular semi will be close for sure. How does one ”cheer for both teams” though?

That's easy.. I'm an Oilers and Czech fan so I don't see many playoff games.lol I always have to pick other teams or nations to cheer for once my teams are gone! In general I like all Big 5 nations and will watch any matchup between them and really enjoy it. I also love the lower tier battles for regulation and will watch a Denmark vs Latvia U20 matchup and love every second of it. I just love hockey and my current teams aren't very good at it in the last decade.haha

Also, I used the last 5 years which I feel is a fair sample size. I know 3 suits your argument better but 6 heavily tilts it towards Finns as they have another gold and silver (2 more finals).

If you are talking clutch then Gold is everything. No one refers to bronzes and silvers as clutch performances in any sport that I am aware of?

I had to look at Hlinka results.. here are the last 5

Czechs with Gold and Silver which makes us better than Finland (0 medals) and USA (1 silver).haha Slovakia ties with States as well. Only 3 gold medalists - Czech, Canada and Russia. Czechs with more Gold than Sweden too. I'm obviously joking around and blatantly cherry picking stats as I'm well aware how bad the Czechs are lately.

Like I say I'll see myself out of this fight since I like both nations. You are more than welcome to have the final comment! Good luck in semis.

 

[AB13]

Nope, I think Swedes are our brothers. I support Sweden usually.

I support Finland too. In every sport, besides hockey. There is too much of a rivarly there for me. Too much history. Too much tension. It’s like supporting Denmark in football or Norway in skiing, I can’t do it. But I support you otherwise.

 

[IceHockeyDude]

Thank you mate. In Swedish it’s the other way round.

Yeah no problem have a good rest of your evening.

 

[FinPanda]

I support Finland too. In every sport, besides hockey. There is too much of a rivarly there for me. Too much history. Too much tension. It’s like supporting Denmark in football or Norway in skiing, I can’t do it. But I support you otherwise.

I don't hate Sweden, but I guess I am happy when Sweden loses. And its not even just for hockey since in I'm happy when Sweden loses in any sport.

When it comes to any other aspect of life, I think Swedes are great people.

 

[Mestaruus]

That's easy.. I'm an Oilers and Czech fan so I don't see many playoff games.lol I always have to pick other teams or nations to cheer for once my teams are gone! In general I like all Big 5 nations and will watch any matchup between them and really enjoy it. I also love the lower tier battles for regulation and will watch a Denmark vs Latvia U20 matchup and love every second of it. I just love hockey and my current teams aren't very good at it in the last decade.haha

Also, I used the last 5 years which I feel is a fair sample size. I know 3 suits your argument better but 6 heavily tilts it towards Finns as they have another gold and silver (2 more finals).

If you are talking clutch then Gold is everything. No one refers to bronzes and silvers as clutch performances in any sport that I am aware of?

I had to look at Hlinka results.. here are the last 5

View attachment 537123

Czechs with Gold and Silver which makes us better than Finland (0 medals) and USA (1 silver).haha Slovakia ties with States as well. Only 3 gold medalists - Czech, Canada and Russia. Czechs with more Gold than Sweden too. I'm obviously joking around and blatantly cherry picking stats as I'm well aware how bad the Czechs are lately.

Like I say I'll see myself out of this fight since I like both nations. You are more than welcome to have the final comment! Good luck in semis.

I'm probably commenting out of context because I didn't follow the entire discussion, so sorry if I did but I just want to say that I personally don't care at all about Hlinka tournament and I think that I'm not the only Finnish person that thinks so. I'm sure that some Finns value that tournament more than me. It doesn't get much, if at all media coverage here in Finland's major media. I feel like it's just a similar tournament like EHT tournaments are for men, a practice tournament for U18.

 

[Czechboy]

I'm probably commenting out of context because I didn't follow the entire discussion, so sorry if I did but I just want to say that I personally don't care at all about Hlinka tournament and I think that I'm not the only Finnish person that thinks so. I'm sure that some Finns value that tournament more than me. It doesn't get much, if at all media coverage here in Finland's major media. I feel like it's just a similar tournament like EHT tournaments are for men, a practice tournament for U18.

If you felt I was using the hlinka to prove Czech dominance then yes... Out of context

I have it much higher than an EHT but have always said both U18s are flawed.

U18... States send a dream team while Canada does not.
Hlinka... Canada sends a dream team while US does not.

 

[Mestaruus]

If you felt I was using the hlinka to prove Czech dominance then yes... Out of context

I have it much higher than an EHT but have always said both U18s are flawed.

U18... States send a dream team while Canada does not.
Hlinka... Canada sends a dream team while US does not.

I agree with pretty much everything you said in that post. I wasn't sure what you meant because I didn't read everything in the previous posts. It was just something I wanted to say because I've seen some Canadians claim that they are the best in U18 age group based on Hlinka tournament. Canadian insecurity by some posters with those kind of subjects often amuse me because the fact is that Canadians produce the greatest amount of the best players on the planet by one nation, so they don't need to prove anything when it comes to their junior teams. Countries like Finland and Sweden can only compete with that if we do it based on capita. Then it can be some kind of argument or a point of discussion.

As you said it, both tournaments, U18 World's and Hlinka are a bit flawed indeed. Especially when USA has that system of their's where they have majority of their junior national team players playing together for the entire season. I think it's called USDP. No other nation does that and it gives USA a significant advantage over other teams, thus year after year they are the most solid in U18 (overall in the long run) and it affects their U20 team as well.

Perhaps U20 World Championship tournaments are closer to best on best compared to U18, but it's really not accurate either when many of the best players are in the NHL and those teams very often won't let the best players join the U20 tournaments. U20 is still better than U18 in measuring which nation has the best juniors, but in the end we don't get the real picture of it. I think that the only real measurements are men's best on best tournaments, such as the Olympics with NHL players and also World Cup with no gimmick teams like The Young Guns team and Team Europe.

 

[ijuka]

I think that Canada really should get their CHL playoffs done with by the u18 tournament. I really don't get why they don't. If it runs so late, start the season later or reduce the amount of games played. Doesn't make much sense to make so many players miss what's perhaps the most important international competition of their careers. Every other nation manages to.

 

[Gold Standard]

I think that Canada really should get their CHL playoffs done with by the u18 tournament. I really don't get why they don't. If it runs so late, start the season later or reduce the amount of games played. Doesn't make much sense to make so many players miss what's perhaps the most important international competition of their careers. Every other nation manages to.

I think there's a gentleman's backroom agreement between Hockey Canada and USAH, our U18 tournament is Hlinka and for USAH it's the IIHF tournament. Club/League play has always been most important in Canada and forever will be thus.

 

[Mestaruus]

I think that Canada really should get their CHL playoffs done with by the u18 tournament. I really don't get why they don't. If it runs so late, start the season later or reduce the amount of games played. Doesn't make much sense to make so many players miss what's perhaps the most important international competition of their careers. Every other nation manages to.

Making the competition more fair in junior World Championships is good for the sport of ice hockey. In my opinion Canadians don't need to prove that they are the best in juniors. If they really wanted, they could do their own USDP thing and they would most likely smash those USA national teams then. I'm not some kind of Canada fan but I think it's realistic to say that would happen.

I might be wrong but based on the sizes of many of Canadian junior ice hockey arenas and how full they seem to be, they might be getting good ticket and TV income from those leagues. So that would be a good reason not to shorten their seasons just because of some international tournaments which they may see quite small in comparison to their junior leagues.

 

[ijuka]

I think there's a gentleman's backroom agreement between Hockey Canada and USAH, our U18 tournament is Hlinka and for USAH it's the IIHF tournament. Club/League play has always been most important in Canada and forever will be thus.

Well that doesn't change the fact that other countries still can get their club play done by u-18s. Also, I'm not sure how playing a winter sport deep into the spring relates to importance. Even Liiga's finished with playoffs but Canadian junior leagues are still going, bizarre.

 

[Mestaruus]

Well that doesn't change the fact that other countries still can get their club play done by u-18s. Also, I'm not sure how playing a winter sport deep into the spring relates to importance. Even Liiga's finished with playoffs but Canadian junior leagues are still going, bizarre.

He kinda said it already. Clubs are more important in Canada. They wouldn't change their leagues' schedules based on something that they don't feel is more important than their leagues.

The culture is different. Canadians have been the best nation of ice hockey for so long (and they still kind of are) that over time clubs have become more important to many of them.

I think that if there was a global NHL with Europe division with same salaries and if for example the best Finnish players didn't always go to North-America, we would start to appreciate clubs as much as people who live closer to NHL teams appreciate those clubs. In that case the significance on Junior World Championships could lessen in countries like Finland as well.

 

[Czechboy]

Well that doesn't change the fact that other countries still can get their club play done by u-18s. Also, I'm not sure how playing a winter sport deep into the spring relates to importance. Even Liiga's finished with playoffs but Canadian junior leagues are still going, bizarre.

The memorial cup is a massive deal with very big sold out arenas. Huge draw and very important. No way they'd end that early or play less games for a 1 week tournament. Especially when they can routinely win the Hlinka and send a dream team.

 

[Czechboy]

I agree with pretty much everything you said in that post. I wasn't sure what you meant because I didn't read everything in the previous posts. It was just something I wanted to say because I've seen some Canadians claim that they are the best in U18 age group based on Hlinka tournament. Canadian insecurity by some posters with those kind of subjects often amuse me because the fact is that Canadians produce the greatest amount of the best players on the planet by one nation, so they don't need to prove anything when it comes to their junior teams. Countries like Finland and Sweden can only compete with that if we do it based on capita. Then it can be some kind of argument or a point of discussion.

As you said it, both tournaments, U18 World's and Hlinka are a bit flawed indeed. Especially when USA has that system of their's where they have majority of their junior national team players playing together for the entire season. I think it's called USDP. No other nation does that and it gives USA a significant advantage over other teams, thus year after year they are the most solid in U18 (overall in the long run) and it affects their U20 team as well.

Perhaps U20 World Championship tournaments are closer to best on best compared to U18, but it's really not accurate either when many of the best players are in the NHL and those teams very often won't let the best players join the U20 tournaments. U20 is still better than U18 in measuring which nation has the best juniors, but in the end we don't get the real picture of it. I think that the only real measurements are men's best on best tournaments, such as the Olympics with NHL players and also World Cup with no gimmick teams like The Young Guns team and Team Europe.

The U20 is also flawed like you say but Canadians consider that the second most important championship.behind Stanley Cup. Best on best would normally be second but we never have those. I doubt majority of Canadians even know what the U18 world championship is.

Problem with U20 is superstars in NHL... Using Slovakia as an example. They could have a rockstar team next Xmas and make it a big 6. But a few of those guys may be in NHL or AHL (they usually let them go but not always). A big nation like Canada can deal with a guy like McDavid not going but a smaller nation can't. It's almost better to have 19 year olds not good enough to make the NHL.lol. This happens every year.. weren't the Germans missing their 3 best players at xmas? That has to hurt a small hockey nation a lot. I'm sure Finn's have had this happen every year given you always have a top 5 guy. I think Sweden could've had Raymond this year as another example. Fun tourney though!

I do crack up when posters come on... Claim Canada can send three teams and win all 3 medals (note... This may be true) but when they lose they immediately are mad they are missing 2 players.lol.

Belarus uses an ndtp model too.. and at U18 it has been working. I was curious if it'd transfer to U20 but you know...

I agree if Canada had an ndtp type model that it'd be crazy good. But those guys are all stars in sold out arenas all over Canada. I don't think junior club hockey is a draw like this anywhere else in the world.

 

[Mestaruus]

The U20 is also flawed like you say but Canadians consider that the second most important championship.behind Stanley Cup. Best on best would normally be second but we never have those. I doubt majority of Canadians even know what the U18 world championship is.

Problem with U20 is superstars in NHL... Using Slovakia as an example. They could have a rockstar team next Xmas and make it a big 6. But a few of those guys may be in NHL or AHL (they usually let them go but not always). A big nation like Canada can deal with a guy like McDavid not going but a smaller nation can't. It's almost better to have 19 year olds not good enough to make the NHL.lol. This happens every year.. weren't the Germans missing their 3 best players at xmas? That has to hurt a small hockey nation a lot. I'm sure Finn's have had this happen every year given you always have a top 5 guy. I think Sweden could've had Raymond this year as another example. Fun tourney though!

I do crack up when posters come on... Claim Canada can send three teams and win all 3 medals (note... This may be true) but when they lose they immediately are mad they are missing 2 players.lol.

Belarus uses an ndtp model too.. and at U18 it has been working. I was curious if it'd transfer to U20 but you know...

I agree if Canada had an ndtp type model that it'd be crazy good. But those guys are all stars in sold out arenas all over Canada. I don't think junior club hockey is a draw like this anywhere else in the world.

Cannot say anything else than I agree.

Canadian craziness on their junior hockey leagues can probably only be compared to USA's basketball junior leagues, like NCAA. Perhaps college American football as well. I don't think that soccer has anything like that anywhere in the world for couple of reasons.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I think that Canada really should get their CHL playoffs done with by the u18 tournament. I really don't get why they don't. If it runs so late, start the season later or reduce the amount of games played. Doesn't make much sense to make so many players miss what's perhaps the most important international competition of their careers. Every other nation manages to.

They were delayed a month this season due to Covid. They are usually much farther along and there would be more players available.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

The memorial cup is a massive deal with very big sold out arenas. Huge draw and very important. No way they'd end that early or play less games for a 1 week tournament. Especially when they can routinely win the Hlinka and send a dream team.

There are only 4 teams in the Memorial Cup and 1 arena.

 

[Czechboy]

There are only 4 teams in the Memorial Cup and 1 arena.

And before that? How many teams are competing to get there?

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

And before that? How many teams are competing to get there?

There’s an easy solution, start earlier. CHL started on the 1st of October, Finnish Liga as a comparison started on 9th of September.

It’s ridiculous for youth hockey to be still playing when spring is in full bloom

 

[Artorius Horus T]

Its still sort of shocking to me that we keep winning these (types of) international games.
- we come from behind and win, totally dominate and win, win tight one goal games,

We really, truly have a winning culture in the professional sports nowadays (not just hockey).

We have come a long way, we were always the underdogs, the "little brother"
but now,..... we really are the favorites to win the gold, every time, at least in hockey,
no matter of the age group, mens, u20s, u18s, 17s... living the dream!.