Canada Russia Series (OHL,WHL,QMHL)

[Atas2000]

Did Rubtsov play the middle?

Yes, we don't have those, so...

 

[Tripod]

Where was all the goalscoring from the stay at home Russians?

 

[Atas2000]

Where was all the goalscoring from the stay at home Russians?

Were you watching? The scoring was basically Altybarmakian, Polodian, Maltsev.

 

[4thline]

Wait until I will again get attacked for critisizing young Russians for jumping to NA. Abramov the great standout talent of this birth year after a couple of years in the CHL

Same goes for Mr. I-won't-earn-my-minutes-in-the-KHL Rubtsov.

Asking you to hold up a mirror and have a little self critical thought isn't really "attacking".

The CHL isn't alchemy, isn't going to turn mediocre talents into elite. Seems like every Russian CHL success doesn't count because the player was elite, too good to fail and succeeded inspite of the CHL, but the reverse could absolutely never be possible of the failures- that in the end they simply weren't good enough to succeed. Had to be the CHL's fault. Have you considered that the players in question just aren't that good (relative to the U20 best on best level)? A late 1st rounder with questionable offensive upside and and undersized wing 3rd rounder. Being the best of the Russian 98's might not be saying much.

Also- funny how when you point out the player's that "did all the scoring" you forget to consider that the CHL players only get two games a piece. Even ignoring the (strong) possibility that they'd do better with more games to get into a groove Abramov paced the team lead in goals, Rubtsov in assists, Sokolov, Lipanov, and Samorukov in Points.

 

[Yakushev72]

Asking you to hold up a mirror and have a little self critical thought isn't really "attacking".

The CHL isn't alchemy, isn't going to turn mediocre talents into elite. Seems like every Russian CHL success doesn't count because the player was elite, too good to fail and succeeded inspite of the CHL, but the reverse could absolutely never be possible of the failures- that in the end they simply weren't good enough to succeed. Had to be the CHL's fault. Have you considered that the players in question just aren't that good (relative to the U20 best on best level)? A late 1st rounder with questionable offensive upside and and undersized wing 3rd rounder. Being the best of the Russian 98's might not be saying much.

Also- funny how when you point out the player's that "did all the scoring" you forget to consider that the CHL players only get two games a piece. Even ignoring the (strong) possibility that they'd do better with more games to get into a groove Abramov paced the team lead in goals, Rubtsov in assists, Sokolov, Lipanov, and Samorukov in Points.

 

[Yakushev72]

You make some good points, but it isn't so much a criticism of the CHL as it is the fact that in so many cases, Russian kids going to the CHL have excellent talent, but also vastly underdeveloped skill. Suddenly, they find themselves halfway around the world, in a totally different culture, usually the only Russian in a sea of Canadians, and very importantly, are expected to pick up a vastly different style of play suitable to small-rink NHL hockey. The kids aren't ready for this experience, and the fact is that the CHL is not a developmental league. Some 18-year olds in the CHL will be playing in the NHL as 19-year olds.

In every case that I know of, the Canadian communities in which these guys have landed have given them a warm welcome and assisted them with all living adjustments. That has never been an issue. Especially with the growth and upgrade of the VHL, these kids have a better chance of developing in an environment where they are not odd man out.

 

[MaxV]

What are these success stories though?

Sergachev might be the first since Radulov more then a decade ago.

No, Kucherov spending time in CHL is not a success story. He was already playing against men in KHL for 2 years prior. He did not advance his career by going from a professional league to a junior league, he did it despite that.

And Provorov? How many times do I need to say this? He came over MUCH earlier then others, he was already fully assimilated to NA by the time CHL came calling. Not the same case as others at all.

EDIT: There is also Vladdy Namestnikov, but I think he is similar to Provorov. Both his father and uncle were NHLers, and he certainly was very familiar with NA before his time in CHL.

 

[JackSlater]

Honestly at this point there does seem to be decent evidence that most Russian players would be better off staying in Russia. The forwards at the very least. It is a lot to expect a player to come to a new country with a significantly different culture and language and a different style of hockey, and for forwards it is clear that Russia already does a good job of development.

 

[4thline]

You make some good points, but it isn't so much a criticism of the CHL as it is the fact that in so many cases, Russian kids going to the CHL have excellent talent, but also vastly underdeveloped skill. Suddenly, they find themselves halfway around the world, in a totally different culture, usually the only Russian in a sea of Canadians, and very importantly, are expected to pick up a vastly different style of play suitable to small-rink NHL hockey. The kids aren't ready for this experience, and the fact is that the CHL is not a developmental league. Some 18-year olds in the CHL will be playing in the NHL as 19-year olds.

In every case that I know of, the Canadian communities in which these guys have landed have given them a warm welcome and assisted them with all living adjustments. That has never been an issue. Especially with the growth and upgrade of the VHL, these kids have a better chance of developing in an environment where they are not odd man out.

Good post, can't say I really disagree with anything. My post was more just being annoyed with Atas' blind nationalistic vitriol than my thoughts on whether it is good or bad for them to come.

That boils down to-
Elite Talents that want to play in the NHL- smart. It's inevitable that they'll come over, get the adjustment done early.

Mediocre to Good talents (the ones Atas calls elite and blames the CHL for ruining)- stay home. The cons you mention outweigh the pro's and leave the risk too high of being an orphan (not good enough for the NHL, too long out of the russian system and no longer familiar with big ice play). Stay in russia, make your living, and try to come over when the time is right. If it doesn't work out you can always go back.

 

[cska78]

Abramov disappointed, but if Bragin calls him to camp, he may get another chance.
I read some praises for Malzev - I kinda disagree, he had some bad turnover and costly penalties. In my mind he is no top6
Rubtsov - in my mind he was never all that good in Russia, prior he had left.
Lipanov was ok.
In all honesty, when I looked at the roster, I thought we'd be lucky to win a game and here we go, we only lost in SO.

Considering, that D will improve, as the plyaers are scattered all over plus Dronov who didn't play, and my faith in Bragin, we should be up there in Buffalo with the best of them.

 

[Yakushev72]

Abramov disappointed, but if Bragin calls him to camp, he may get another chance.
I read some praises for Malzev - I kinda disagree, he had some bad turnover and costly penalties. In my mind he is no top6
Rubtsov - in my mind he was never all that good in Russia, prior he had left.
Lipanov was ok.
In all honesty, when I looked at the roster, I thought we'd be lucky to win a game and here we go, we only lost in SO.

Considering, that D will improve, as the plyaers are scattered all over plus Dronov who didn't play, and my faith in Bragin, we should be up there in Buffalo with the best of them.

 

[Yakushev72]

They always seem to look really disorganized and ineffective in this series, but then come together under Bragin and end up being playing very well. And there are several players in Russia who will also contribute to the group.

 

[Atas2000]

What are these success stories though?

Sergachev might be the first since Radulov more then a decade ago.

No, Kucherov spending time in CHL is not a success story. He was already playing against men in KHL for 2 years prior. He did not advance his career by going from a professional league to a junior league, he did it despite that.

And Provorov? How many times do I need to say this? He came over MUCH earlier then others, he was already fully assimilated to NA by the time CHL came calling. Not the same case as others at all.

EDIT: There is also Vladdy Namestnikov, but I think he is similar to Provorov. Both his father and uncle were NHLers, and he certainly was very familiar with NA before his time in CHL.

Yep, Provorov has to be comsidered a Russia-US-product actually spending his early years in the russian hockey school and moving to the US development systemat a tender age of 14. Obviously the US produces fine defencemen recently. And for Provorov the early move payed off. But his case wll probably remain a special one. Provorov's wealthy parents were able to afford all the eventualities that come with moving a 14y.o. to a different country across the world.