WJC: Canada Roster Talk Thred Pt III

[LDN]

HOLD UP

I just read on twitter that Hunter could have chosen anyone for that penalty shot? Even guys on the bench

is that true? and he chose comtois.

SO STUPID! WHY not Glass, Suzuki, Leeson?

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

It's disapointing I'm not gonna lie but you could tell from the start that this team was not going to win it all. No chemistry whatsoever and a prehistoric coach who had no business being there, bad decision after bad decision. Get a real coach next year.

 

[4thlineduster]

It not about the player talent, it's about having a system, coaching and bringing the team together. In Finland and Sweden, juniors from early age typically play under a similar system and often even the same coach is together with the same bunch of guys over three or four years. For example the current coach of team Finland, Jussi Ahokas, was coaching the U18 team that won in 2016 before he moved to U20 in 2017/2018.



Maybe not from this tournament alone, but looking at the trend from the last ten years, Canada has only won two gold medals, which is a remarkably lower rate of success than the years before that.

The years before that, the Americans were perennially terrible, and the Finns not much better.

We need to accept this tournament is no longer the Canada, Russia, Sweden show.

Out of 10 teams, 5 are considered legit contenders with the Swiss and (sometimes) the Slovaks not far behind.

We aren’t going to dominate every year and we need to accept that. Having said that, teams as bad as this years’ are not acceptable.

 

[Breakers]

SO STUPID! WHY not Glass, Suzuki, Leeson?

yeah I agree.
Suzuki with his hands would have been my choice.

 

[ORRFForever]

It's disapointing I'm not gonna lie but you could tell from the start that this team was not going to win it all. No chemistry whatsoever and a prehistoric coach who had no business being there, bad decision after bad decision. Get a real coach next year.

We can't always blame the coach. The players played poorly. Scotty Bowman isn't going to change that.

 

[ORRFForever]

yeah I agree.
Suzuki with his hands would have been my choice.

What did he do all tournament?

 

[Thebesthockey]

The years before that, the Americans were perennially terrible, and the Finns not much better.

We need to accept this tournament is no longer the Canada, Russia, Sweden show.

Out of 10 teams, 5 are considered legit contenders with the Swiss and (sometimes) the Slovaks not far behind.

We aren’t going to dominate every year and we need to accept that. Having said that, teams as bad as this years’ are not acceptable.

its bad for every team
the 99 draft was aweful in terms of talent
canada was just worse

look how many first years on each team

 

[ORRFForever]

The years before that, the Americans were perennially terrible, and the Finns not much better.

We need to accept this tournament is no longer the Canada, Russia, Sweden show.

Out of 10 teams, 5 are considered legit contenders with the Swiss and (sometimes) the Slovaks not far behind.

We aren’t going to dominate every year and we need to accept that. Having said that, teams as bad as this years’ are not acceptable.

I accept all that.

What bothers me is : The team that is most like us, the Americans, NEVER loses to a lesser opponents. Never! They always beat the teams they are expected to beat.

Will they lose to Russia or Sweden or us? Sure. But when is the last time they lost to a team that's played as poorly as the Fins did in this tournament? When is the last time they <bleeped? the bed in a playoff game?

It doesn't happen. So why does it happen to us?

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

We can't always blame the coach. The players played poorly. Scotty Bowman isn't going to change that.

Picking Comtois for the PS and benching Frost in OT were terrible decisions that might have cost us the game, I realize there's more to hockey than coaching but we can do a lot better than Tim Hunter.

 

[PG Canuck]

SO STUPID! WHY not Glass, Suzuki, Leeson?

It should have been down to Glass or Frost. No one else should have even been a thought.

 

[Breakers]

What did he do all tournament?

I dont care about the tournament. It's one penalty shot which he excels at according to the owen sound attack board.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Such as?

Look at the success the States has had recently with the USNTDP. Handpick a group at each age group and work with them specifically on skill development. Find the standouts and nurture them even more. Canada has a great pool of talent to choose from, but quantity does not always trump quality.

 

[PG Canuck]

JAD - invisible, 1 pt in 4 games
Tippett - had 4 pts in 4 games - 2pts came against Demark
Suzuki - 3 pts in 4gp, pretty much invisible

Way too many "where were they" players this year. Not sure if it was a systems issue or what, but what the hell happened to these talented players? Defense was utter trash too.

 

[ORRFForever]

Picking Comtois for the PS and benching Frost in OT were terrible decisions that might have cost us the game, I realize there's more to hockey than coaching but we can do a lot better than Tim Hunter.

But then the players get a pass.

To me, they were the problem, not Hunter.

 

[4thlineduster]

I accept all that.

What bothers me is : The team that is most like us, the Americans, NEVER loses to a lesser opponents. Never! They always beat the teams they are expected to beat.

Will they lose to Russia or Sweden or us? Sure. But when is the last time they lost to a team that's played as poorly as the Fins did in this tournament? When is the last time they <bleeped? the bed in a playoff game?

It doesn't happen. So why does it happen to us?

Pretty sure the Slovaks beat them in the bronze a couple years ago

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

What did he do all tournament?

I don't want to sound like a homer (Habs fan) and I have to admit he was kind of underwhelming this tournament but he still would have been a much better choice than Comtois on that PS. Arguably the best hands on that team, Comtois' attempt was laughably bad.

 

[ORRFForever]

Pretty sure the Slovaks beat them in the bronze a couple years ago

If they did, it's the exception, NOT the rule.

We lose to / struggle against lesser opponents far more than they do.

Maybe teams get "up" for us more?

 

[4thlineduster]

I don't want to sound like a homer (Habs fan) and I have to admit he was kind of underwhelming this tournament but he still would have been a much better choice than Comtois on that PS. Arguably the best hands on that team, Comtois' attempt was laughably bad.

That’s what happens when you use a grinder on a penalty shot

 

[Starry Knight]

JAD - invisible, 1 pt in 4 games
Tippett - had 4 pts in 4 games - 2pts came against Demark
Suzuki - 3 pts in 4gp, pretty much invisible

Way too many "where were they" players this year. Not sure if it was a systems issue or what, but what the hell happened to these talented players? Defense was utter trash too.

I blame systems. The powerplay never had any adjustments made to it; zone exits were handled by softly chipping the puck to the opposition every time; defencemen were never allowed to lead the rush. It was an all around failure to implement any sort of system to create a flow to the team's game, and all the skill on Canada was stifled because of it.

 

[ORRFForever]

That’s what happens when you use a grinder on a penalty shot

Even if we'd won, today, the Americans or Russians would have run circles around us. Hell, me might not have gotten past the Swiss.

 

[blindpass]

When is the last time the U.S. team lost to a lesser opponent in this tournament?

When is the last time they lost a playoff game they should have won?

They've lost to Russia a couple time in the quarterfinals recently. Finland is in the top tier of teams these days and shouldn't have been taken lightly by anyone, if they were.

The US flopped in 2012 in a way Canada has never come close to doing and had to play in the 4 team relegation round they had then.

 

[JackSlater]

It not about the player talent, it's about having a system, coaching and bringing the team together. In Finland and Sweden, juniors from early age typically play under a similar system and often even the same coach is together with the same bunch of guys over three or four years. For example the current coach of team Finland, Jussi Ahokas, was coaching the U18 team that won in 2016 before he moved to U20 in 2017/2018.

There are development models that I like, particularly in soccer in countries like Spain and Belgium, but they are different than just a national team. Spain brings its best young players in large numbers to one place in the summer for a period of time and provides them with the same training to instill something of a national style of play. There is no real reason that Hockey Canada couldn't offer the same program at its complex in Calgary. That's just one thing.

The goal of course, as I think you are saying, is to raise the level of Canadian hockey in general - not just to perform better at the WJC.

I don't particularly care if Canada uses the same coaches from the U18 to U20 level. In some instances I wish that Hockey Canada was less enamored with using its U18 players at the U20 level. Just pick good coaches.

Maybe not from this tournament alone, but looking at the trend from the last ten years, Canada has only won two gold medals, which is a remarkably lower rate of success than the years before that.

Yes, so you agree with me. I'm not even completely talking about the results of all of the tournaments in recent years. Looking at the NHL draft, the WJC and the performance of Canada's young players in the NHL it is clear that Canada should be doing a fair deal better than it is. A lot of that has been masked because Canada remained dominant at the best on best level due to the previous generation.

It's worth noting each year who each country has in the NHL. Before this decade Canada was generally the overwhelming favourite if everyone played. Numerous years this decade, this year included, that hasn't been the case. Yes other nations have improved, but there is no reason that Canada shouldn't be trying to its position. There is still a lot of potential for growth in Canada.

 

[LeafChief]

Sure - there were some questionable decisions made by Hunter (Comtois taking the penalty shot).

With that said, Finland ties the game on a fluke goal. We have an opportunity to win it in OT on a penalty shot and we missed. Dobson's stick breaks on a sure goal in OT. Any of these bounces go our way and we win and there's no complaining.

Can't win every year.

I'm happy to see a team like Switzerland break through and would like to see them get to the finals. It's only better for hockey for more national teams to be competitive and be a threat.

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

That’s what happens when you use a grinder on a penalty shot

Exactly, grinding dinosaurs like Hunter tend to have a soft spot for players who remind them of themselves when they were playing and they often favor such players over highly skilled ones. It usually sets the table for handicaping, laughable coaching decisions.

 

[ORRFForever]

They've lost to Russia a couple time in the quarterfinals recently.

The US flopped in 2012 in a way Canada has never come close to doing and had to play in the 4 team relegation round they had then.

Losing to Russia is one thing. Flopping 7 year ago is a long way back to look.

We seem to <bleep> the bed on a regular basis.