WJC: Canada 2019 Roster Talk

[kabidjan18]

Its not grounded in my feelings. My degree had me take plenty of human physiology courses lol its anything but feelings. If he actually hasnt skated prior to camp, his physical condition wont be at its peak performance. It takes a while for the body to adapt and get back to game shape aka being rusty. The body needs stress and stimulus to adapt and get stronger which Vilardi hasnt been getting in this scenario.

His cardio conditioning will be lower than normal because he hasnt been skating, he especially wont have been skating in game situations which are more stop and start and reactionary than you can really produce in practice, his muscles will be weaker so he'll be less explosive, muscle memory wont be what it is at peak shape, hasnt had to brace for contact in a long time etc.

You can say we have proof of people not being rusty but you have anecdotal evidence by saying "oh we've seen people come back and still put up points" but dont say its me using feelings. The science is there and I cant believe I have to explain that someone returning from a long lay off from playing will be rusty. It is not only scientifically proven, it seems like common sense.

Your degree is irrelevant to whether or not your argument follows from your premises.

You keep missing the point. "He will be rusty" is not an argument. You need to demonstrate the causal link between "feeling rusty" and all the phenomena you just described and a significant and quantifiable depreciation in skill that manifests itself statistically. You keep trying to make an argument that doesn't follow from you premises, and when I question the structure of your argument you misconstrue my counter-argument as an attack on your premises. I have never said "he will not feel rusty." I have said that there is no apparent link between the inevitable and accepted premise, "players feel rusty after missing games", and this ridiculous "Rusty Vilardi" phase where his performance will be a mere shadow of its former state for weeks. You keep trying to prove "players rust." No one disputed that. What I've been disputing from the start is what I've called the "fictitious Rusty Vilardi character". I mentioned Vilardi's return last season. Michael Rassmussen, another person you've mentioned, is another example. Upon return to the WHL he scored in each of his first 6 games, 8 points total. Scientifically did he "rust"? Of course. But was he reduced to some ridiculous "Rusty Rassmussen" figure who struggled for weeks to put up points in the WHL? No. The scientific fact that people rust falls short of the claim that you have to make which you seem to be incapable of comprehending. Players can be rusty and it not be a significant enough factor to cause a noticeable deprecation in their statistical performance. Or take Connor McDavid's injury in 2015-16, where he scored 5 points in his first 2 games returning from injury. Did he rust? Yes. Did he become some ridiculous fictitious "Rusty McDavid" figure who took weeks and weeks to get back to his normal state? No. Statistically, he was well above his normal state because he's never scored 2.5 PPG in an NHL season and likely never will. There are countless other examples. The fact that players rust does not at all necessitate any statistical depreciation. Players rust after missing time. That doesn't prove that Vilardi will come back and stay a shadow of his former self for, not days, but weeks. Until you actually start proving your claim, and not just being evasive and proving a weaker claim that just happens to be more provable, your argument doesn't hold.

 

[GTA]

Your degree is irrelevant to whether or not your argument follows from your premises.

You keep missing the point. "He will be rusty" is not an argument. You need to demonstrate the causal link between "feeling rusty" and all the phenomena you just described and a significant and quantifiable depreciation in skill that manifests itself statistically. You keep trying to make an argument that doesn't follow from you premises, and when I question the structure of your argument you misconstrue my counter-argument as an attack on your premises. I have never said "he will not feel rusty." I have said that there is no apparent link between the inevitable and accepted premise, "players feel rusty after missing games", and this ridiculous "Rusty Vilardi" phase where his performance will be a mere shadow of its former state for weeks. You keep trying to prove "players rust." No one disputed that. What I've been disputing from the start is what I've called the "fictitious Rusty Vilardi character". I mentioned Vilardi's return last season. Michael Rassmussen, another person you've mentioned, is another example. Upon return to the WHL he scored in each of his first 6 games, 8 points total. Scientifically did he "rust"? Of course. But was he reduced to some ridiculous "Rusty Rassmussen" figure who struggled for weeks to put up points in the WHL? No. The scientific fact that people rust falls short of the claim that you have to make which you seem to be incapable of comprehending. Players can be rusty and it not be a significant enough factor to cause a noticeable deprecation in their statistical performance. Or take Connor McDavid's injury in 2015-16, where he scored 5 points in his first 2 games returning from injury. Did he rust? Yes. Did he become some ridiculous fictitious "Rusty McDavid" figure who took weeks and weeks to get back to his normal state? No. Statistically, he was well above his normal state because he's never scored 2.5 PPG in an NHL season and likely never will. There are countless other examples. The fact that players rust does not at all necessitate any statistical depreciation. Players rust after missing time. That doesn't prove that Vilardi will come back and stay a shadow of his former self for, not days, but weeks. Until you actually start proving your claim, and not just being evasive and proving a weaker claim that just happens to be more provable, your argument doesn't hold.

Your style of writing is so /iamverysmart that it is hard to read without cringing.

 

[kabidjan18]

Your style of writing is so /iamverysmart that it is hard to read without cringing.

He's the degree guy, I won't claim to be more than someone on the internet.

Don't know how else to express the same ideas. Did restate myself a number of times there, but that's because it seems to keep on not coming across, probably my fault.

 

[newfy]

Your degree is irrelevant to whether or not your argument follows from your premises.

You keep missing the point. "He will be rusty" is not an argument. You need to demonstrate the causal link between "feeling rusty" and all the phenomena you just described and a significant and quantifiable depreciation in skill that manifests itself statistically. You keep trying to make an argument that doesn't follow from you premises, and when I question the structure of your argument you misconstrue my counter-argument as an attack on your premises. I have never said "he will not feel rusty." I have said that there is no apparent link between the inevitable and accepted premise, "players feel rusty after missing games", and this ridiculous "Rusty Vilardi" phase where his performance will be a mere shadow of its former state for weeks. You keep trying to prove "players rust." No one disputed that. What I've been disputing from the start is what I've called the "fictitious Rusty Vilardi character". I mentioned Vilardi's return last season. Michael Rassmussen, another person you've mentioned, is another example. Upon return to the WHL he scored in each of his first 6 games, 8 points total. Scientifically did he "rust"? Of course. But was he reduced to some ridiculous "Rusty Rassmussen" figure who struggled for weeks to put up points in the WHL? No. The scientific fact that people rust falls short of the claim that you have to make which you seem to be incapable of comprehending. Players can be rusty and it not be a significant enough factor to cause a noticeable deprecation in their statistical performance. Or take Connor McDavid's injury in 2015-16, where he scored 5 points in his first 2 games returning from injury. Did he rust? Yes. Did he become some ridiculous fictitious "Rusty McDavid" figure who took weeks and weeks to get back to his normal state? No. Statistically, he was well above his normal state because he's never scored 2.5 PPG in an NHL season and likely never will. There are countless other examples. The fact that players rust does not at all necessitate any statistical depreciation. Players rust after missing time. That doesn't prove that Vilardi will come back and stay a shadow of his former self for, not days, but weeks. Until you actually start proving your claim, and not just being evasive and proving a weaker claim that just happens to be more provable, your argument doesn't hold.

There is no apparent link because there is no studies done on it. You can cite McDavid producing when he returned but how long was he skating befor ehe returned? How do you know if he didnt have more game action in that point in the season he wouldnt have had 7 points in those games?

The moral of the story is, you can cite that some players had points when they came back from injury, I can find others who were slower statistically returning but the science is that athletically their performance is not going to be as great as it could've been. You also say statistical performance like its the only thing that matters in hockey. If Vilardi comes back will he have the energy to complete a back check after a long shift and break up a scoring chance? Scientifically he wont have the energy that he had to back check if he was in peak season form.

Anyways I'm done trying to explain the way the human body works. Dont bother citing some other random examples of guys putting up a couple points in a few games after they return. That doesnt change the fact that the players wont be at their best performance. Its basic physiology. Toss some more big words around if you want but its not going to change how the human body works

 

[kabidjan18]

There is no apparent link because there is no studies done on it. You can cite McDavid producing when he returned but how long was he skating befor ehe returned? How do you know if he didnt have more game action in that point in the season he wouldnt have had 7 points in those games?

The moral of the story is, you can cite that some players had points when they came back from injury, I can find others who were slower statistically returning but the science is that athletically their performance is not going to be as great as it could've been. You also say statistical performance like its the only thing that matters in hockey. If Vilardi comes back will he have the energy to complete a back check after a long shift and break up a scoring chance? Scientifically he wont have the energy that he had to back check if he was in peak season form.

Anyways I'm done trying to explain the way the human body works. Dont bother citing some other random examples of guys putting up a couple points in a few games after they return. That doesnt change the fact that the players wont be at their best performance. Its basic physiology. Toss some more big words around if you want but its not going to change how the human body works

No one ever disputed the bolded part. But it still doesn't prove your claim. I'll try to word this as clearly as possible.

Even if there is a difference, you don't know how big a difference it would be. It could range from being a completely negligible difference, and often is, to being a significant factor. You can't simply say "it will make this much difference, therefore he won't be as good as XYZ player" (or you can say it but that doesn't make it true), because even if there exists a difference, if it is very very tiny (and it often is), he still could easily be better than XYZ player, say Rassmussen or Formenton (who has still never scored above PPG in any league since maybe the GTBHL, wicked fast but often doesn't put it all together). All you are proving with the stuff about the human body is that there will be a difference. I agree. But that difference could be almost unnoticeable. And if it is almost unnoticeable, or even just very small, then he is still better than all those players you mentioned. We know he is very good. We know he is much better than all those players you mentioned. Even if there is a difference at the start of the tournament between the best Vilardi and the Vilardi who shows up, if it is so small that he still can do everything they need him to do in a top role, that's ok. No need to worry.

 

[PuckLife]

At this point in the Can/Russia series I really like the chances of all 3 Greyhounds getting an invite to camp.

 

[hockeyanalyst99]

IT LOOKS LIKE WE CAN NARROW DOWN THE INVITATION LIST AFTER 5 GAMES OF CHL &RUSSIA CHALLENGE:
A= DESERVED AN INVITATION
B=AVERAGE PERFORMANCE = CAN BE INVITED
C= BELOW AVERAGE =DO NOT DESERVE INVITATION

Forwards (x25):
Alex Formenton =A
Cody Glass = B
Owen Tippett = B
Nick Suzuki= A
Morgan Frost = C (TOO MANY GIVE -AWAYS)
Jaret Anderson-Dolan = INJURED
Stelio Mattheos = C ( slow and poor defensive coverage)
Shane Bowers = B (was not involved) but can invited based on summer performance.
Jack Studnicka = B
Ryan McLeod =B
Isaac Ratcliffe = A
Justin Almeida = injured
Riley Sutter = C
Jordy Bellerive = A
Barrett Hayton = A
Joe Veleno = B
Alexis Lafreniere=B
Matthew Strome = C
Antoine Morand = C
Noel, Serron =C
McGregor, Ryan = B
Schnarr, Nate =C
Foudy, Liam =B
Entwistle, MacKenzie = A
Dellandrea, Ty =B
Leason, Brett = A
Cozens, Dylan =A
Fix-Wolansky, Trey=B
Kelly, Parker=B
Dach, Kirby=C
Dewar, Connor=C
Foote, Nolan=C
Lavoie, Raphael =C



Defense (x12):
Pierre-Olivier Joseph= A
Evan Bouchard=A
Ian Mitchell=A
Noah Dobson=A
Ty Smith=B
Ryan Merkley=C
Kevin Bahl=B
Jared McIsaac=B
Josh Brook=B
Calen Addison=C
Markus Phillips=B
Jett Woo=A

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

IT LOOKS LIKE WE CAN NARROW DOWN THE INVITATION LIST AFTER 5 GAMES OF CHL &RUSSIA CHALLENGE:
A= DESERVED AN INVITATION
B=AVERAGE PERFORMANCE = CAN BE INVITED
C= BELOW AVERAGE =DO NOT DESERVE INVITATION

Forwards (x25):
Alex Formenton =A
Cody Glass = B
Owen Tippett = B
Nick Suzuki= A
Morgan Frost = C (TOO MANY GIVE -AWAYS)
Jaret Anderson-Dolan = INJURED
Stelio Mattheos = C ( slow and poor defensive coverage)
Shane Bowers = B (was not involved) but can invited based on summer performance.
Jack Studnicka = B
Ryan McLeod =B
Isaac Ratcliffe = A
Justin Almeida = injured
Riley Sutter = C
Jordy Bellerive = A
Barrett Hayton = A
Joe Veleno = B
Alexis Lafreniere=B
Matthew Strome = C
Antoine Morand = C
Noel, Serron =C
McGregor, Ryan = B
Schnarr, Nate =C
Foudy, Liam =B
Entwistle, MacKenzie = A
Dellandrea, Ty =B
Leason, Brett = A
Cozens, Dylan =A
Fix-Wolansky, Trey=B
Kelly, Parker=B
Dach, Kirby=C
Dewar, Connor=C
Foote, Nolan=C
Lavoie, Raphael =C



Defense (x12):
Pierre-Olivier Joseph= A
Evan Bouchard=A
Ian Mitchell=A
Noah Dobson=A
Ty Smith=B
Ryan Merkley=C
Kevin Bahl=B
Jared McIsaac=B
Josh Brook=B
Calen Addison=C
Markus Phillips=B
Jett Woo=A

Yes, very safe to say so...

 

[DavidLamb]

Every year since 1994, i have followed Canadian, Swedish, and Russian junior hockey, and i have noticed that Canadian players are getting quicker, but they are always one step behind Swedish and Russian in terms of stick-handling and skating.

Even last few last years, i have noticed that Canadian junior players are even behind American junior players in stick-handling and skating. Darn it!!!, I am begging everyone who is involved in minor hockey, please teach our kids stick-handling and skating. There are tons of resources on YOUTUBE to help kids to run your practices. I am sure there will be more Canadians making to the NHL if you teach them more of skating and skating as the NHL is leaning to skills.

In the last 25 years, the % of Canadian players in NHL are consistently dropping. So, if i do not bring this up, it is a loss for every kid in Canada.

thanks,

 

[Hagstrom]

Yikes, 5-1 loss for the QMJHL guys

 

[newfy]

IT LOOKS LIKE WE CAN NARROW DOWN THE INVITATION LIST AFTER 5 GAMES OF CHL &RUSSIA CHALLENGE:
A= DESERVED AN INVITATION
B=AVERAGE PERFORMANCE = CAN BE INVITED
C= BELOW AVERAGE =DO NOT DESERVE INVITATION

Forwards (x25):
Alex Formenton =A
Cody Glass = B
Owen Tippett = B
Nick Suzuki= A
Morgan Frost = C (TOO MANY GIVE -AWAYS)
Jaret Anderson-Dolan = INJURED
Stelio Mattheos = C ( slow and poor defensive coverage)
Shane Bowers = B (was not involved) but can invited based on summer performance.
Jack Studnicka = B
Ryan McLeod =B
Isaac Ratcliffe = A
Justin Almeida = injured
Riley Sutter = C
Jordy Bellerive = A
Barrett Hayton = A
Joe Veleno = B
Alexis Lafreniere=B
Matthew Strome = C
Antoine Morand = C
Noel, Serron =C
McGregor, Ryan = B
Schnarr, Nate =C
Foudy, Liam =B
Entwistle, MacKenzie = A
Dellandrea, Ty =B
Leason, Brett = A
Cozens, Dylan =A
Fix-Wolansky, Trey=B
Kelly, Parker=B
Dach, Kirby=C
Dewar, Connor=C
Foote, Nolan=C
Lavoie, Raphael =C



Defense (x12):
Pierre-Olivier Joseph= A
Evan Bouchard=A
Ian Mitchell=A
Noah Dobson=A
Ty Smith=B
Ryan Merkley=C
Kevin Bahl=B
Jared McIsaac=B
Josh Brook=B
Calen Addison=C
Markus Phillips=B
Jett Woo=A

I dont disagree with much here. I agree on Frost, he had a mediocre summer camp and now a mediocre Russia series. I missed one of the WHL games but not sure Cozens should be an A based on what I saw. Definitely not a C but I think B might be more what he was. Woo I think is also a B. Like that you have Ratcliffe and Entwhistle as A's. Not sure they end up on the final team but theyve shown enough that they could earn a spot in camp. Obviously the Q guys have another shot to see what they have. I only saw the first tonight so cant really comment much there, I'll try to watch the next one and see how they do

 

[wishywashy19]

Every year since 1994, i have followed Canadian, Swedish, and Russian junior hockey, and i have noticed that Canadian players are getting quicker, but they are always one step behind Swedish and Russian in terms of stick-handling and skating.

Even last few last years, i have noticed that Canadian junior players are even behind American junior players in stick-handling and skating. Darn it!!!, I am begging everyone who is involved in minor hockey, please teach our kids stick-handling and skating. There are tons of resources on YOUTUBE to help kids to run your practices. I am sure there will be more Canadians making to the NHL if you teach them more of skating and skating as the NHL is leaning to skills.

In the last 25 years, the % of Canadian players in NHL are consistently dropping. So, if i do not bring this up, it is a loss for every kid in Canada.

thanks,

i think that the CHL has outlasted itself as being a high performance league.
i also believe everyone that sits in committee recognizes it, knows what to do, but doesn't know how to implement the more competitive 8 team National junior league.
It has to happen. Good players from Bantam gets moved to Midget. Good players in junior get to NHL AND sit becuase going back to junior is detrimental to development.

 

[wishywashy19]

IT LOOKS LIKE WE CAN NARROW DOWN THE INVITATION LIST AFTER 5 GAMES OF CHL &RUSSIA CHALLENGE:
A= DESERVED AN INVITATION
B=AVERAGE PERFORMANCE = CAN BE INVITED
C= BELOW AVERAGE =DO NOT DESERVE INVITATION

Forwards (x25):
Alex Formenton =A
Cody Glass = B
Owen Tippett = B
Nick Suzuki= A
Morgan Frost = C (TOO MANY GIVE -AWAYS)
Jaret Anderson-Dolan = INJURED
Stelio Mattheos = C ( slow and poor defensive coverage)
Shane Bowers = B (was not involved) but can invited based on summer performance.
Jack Studnicka = B
Ryan McLeod =B
Isaac Ratcliffe = A
Justin Almeida = injured
Riley Sutter = C
Jordy Bellerive = A
Barrett Hayton = A
Joe Veleno = B
Alexis Lafreniere=B
Matthew Strome = C
Antoine Morand = C
Noel, Serron =C
McGregor, Ryan = B
Schnarr, Nate =C
Foudy, Liam =B
Entwistle, MacKenzie = A
Dellandrea, Ty =B
Leason, Brett = A
Cozens, Dylan =A
Fix-Wolansky, Trey=B
Kelly, Parker=B
Dach, Kirby=C
Dewar, Connor=C
Foote, Nolan=C
Lavoie, Raphael =C



Defense (x12):
Pierre-Olivier Joseph= A
Evan Bouchard=A
Ian Mitchell=A
Noah Dobson=A
Ty Smith=B
Ryan Merkley=C
Kevin Bahl=B
Jared McIsaac=B
Josh Brook=B
Calen Addison=C
Markus Phillips=B
Jett Woo=A

i would like to know who is going to score goals?
lets hope Rasmussen and Thomas are sent back.
Glass is an A.
Mr. Hunter better take the smirk off and get to work. He has a lot of work to do and some of it better be plugging up the Neutral zone and play like Latvia because the talent is not there to be too aggressive on the forecheck.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Joseph looking like an experienced 19 year old 1st round pick should in the Russia games. He’s a lock to get good minutes at the WJC I believe.

 

[Gold Standard]

i would like to know who is going to score goals?
lets hope Rasmussen and Thomas are sent back.
Glass is an A.
Mr. Hunter better take the smirk off and get to work. He has a lot of work to do and some of it better be plugging up the Neutral zone and play like Latvia because the talent is not there to be too aggressive on the forecheck.

TOI for both Rasmussen and Thomas seems to be steadily creeping up. It's unlikely they'll be released now.

And I'm skeptical that Mr. Hunter is the right coach for this particular group of U20s.

 

[LeafChief]

Who are the goalie invites going to be?

 

[Hagstrom]

Who are the goalie invites going to be?

Likely DiPietro, Scott, and Rodrigue

 

[Get North]

I'm not worried about this Canadian team, it's a weak age group overall, but if your worried about this team's talent, you should have been worried about last years talent. Steel and Kyrou were our top offensive players, Batherson was 3rd in scoring and he came out of nowhere. Glass is outproducing both Steel and Kyrou. My line-up assuming no players sent down:

Lafreniere-Glass-Tippett
Formenton-Hayton-Suzuki
Foudy-Frost-Leason
Bellerive-Dellandrea-Studnicka
Entwhistle or Ratcliffe

Smith-Bouchard
Joseph-Dobson
Bahl-Mitchell
Brook

Dipietro
Scott

If Vilardi is sent down, makes our team much stronger.

 

[wishywashy19]

I'm not worried about this Canadian team, it's a weak age group overall, but if your worried about this team's talent, you should have been worried about last years talent. Steel and Kyrou were our top offensive players, Batherson was 3rd in scoring and he came out of nowhere. Glass is outproducing both Steel and Kyrou. My line-up assuming no players sent down:

Lafreniere-Glass-Tippett
Formenton-Hayton-Suzuki
Foudy-Frost-Leason
Bellerive-Dellandrea-Studnicka
Entwhistle or Ratcliffe

Smith-Bouchard
Joseph-Dobson
Bahl-Mitchell
Brook

Dipietro
Scott

If Vilardi is sent down, makes our team much stronger.

the only player out of site and out mind is Bowers.
Not sure of Bahl/Mitchell( another out of site).
Merkley has to be considered
overall- good picks

 

[JackSlater]

I think that the team should be viewed in a similar manner as the previous two teams. It needs to rely on scoring depth through the lineup and hopefully some efficient puck movement from the defencemen. The big differences are that the goaltender and coach aren't necessarily areas of confidence as they were the previous two years. A potential benefit is that the team may not have a pairing that is a liability as the team did each of the previous two years.

I'm also curious about Tippett. I get big time Virtanen vibes from him. Big guy for junior hockey, fast, seems to skate up the wing and rip it. I've never been impressed with him in any international or international type games. Canada could use some goal scoring on the wing so he may be a given but as of right now I am hoping that either he steps up and shows some variety or he is replaced by someone who can do those things.

 

[wishywashy19]

I think that the team should be viewed in a similar manner as the previous two teams. It needs to rely on scoring depth through the lineup and hopefully some efficient puck movement from the defencemen. The big differences are that the goaltender and coach aren't necessarily areas of confidence as they were the previous two years. A potential benefit is that the team may not have a pairing that is a liability as the team did each of the previous two years.

I'm also curious about Tippett. I get big time Virtanen vibes from him. Big guy for junior hockey, fast, seems to skate up the wing and rip it. I've never been impressed with him in any international or international type games. Canada could use some goal scoring on the wing so he may be a given but as of right now I am hoping that either he steps up and shows some variety or he is replaced by someone who can do those things.

you can tell he was given the reins in the CIBC and had point power play and top line billing but outside of a few off wing distance shots, does he deserve top line?. I agree with Virtanen comment except lets hope we don't see that type of let down again from anyone. he may have to take on a lesser role BUT doesn't seem to be that 3rd line type of player. Play me or bust?? Could be a big name cut in the making!!

 

[LeProspector]

JacobBernard-Docker has been quite impressive as an 18 year old in the NCAA. I know they don’t take many NCAA players but I don’t see much talk of him, what are his chances?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

JacobBernard-Docker has been quite impressive as an 18 year old in the NCAA. I know they don’t take many NCAA players but I don’t see much talk of him, what are his chances?

Very very slim. There are a lot of good 18 year old defensemen competing for spots this year, and atleast 3 spots are already locked in with Bouchard,Dobson and Smith. Makes for a tough defense to crack.

 

[JackSlater]

JacobBernard-Docker has been quite impressive as an 18 year old in the NCAA. I know they don’t take many NCAA players but I don’t see much talk of him, what are his chances?

The coaches will be less familiar with him but maybe he will get an invite. I expect that Mitchell will at least be invited. Two NCAA defencemen in camp is uncommon but not a bad idea in cases such as this.

 

[bert]

I'm not worried about this Canadian team, it's a weak age group overall, but if your worried about this team's talent, you should have been worried about last years talent. Steel and Kyrou were our top offensive players, Batherson was 3rd in scoring and he came out of nowhere. Glass is outproducing both Steel and Kyrou. My line-up assuming no players sent down:

Lafreniere-Glass-Tippett
Formenton-Hayton-Suzuki
Foudy-Frost-Leason
Bellerive-Dellandrea-Studnicka
Entwhistle or Ratcliffe

Smith-Bouchard
Joseph-Dobson
Bahl-Mitchell
Brook

Dipietro
Scott

If Vilardi is sent down, makes our team much stronger.

This team looks great! Good call.