WJC: Canada 2019 Roster Talk

[newfy]

I watched the game tonight, I was at the arena at like 6:45 and it looked like the game was going to be packed only to have hardly anyone in there.

As for this game I said in the other thread, no one was super impressive to me. I thought Hayton looked solid, the goal was nice but so was his play outside of that. I really am not a fan of Tippett though. He scores goals but I dont like his fly down the wing and just rip it style. It seems to me like its something that would work in the OHL but as the talent level gets higher will be less effective. He also turned the puck over a couple of times.

Rare to be through 3 games of this and not really come away impressed with someone or have someone who really helped their chances at the team.

Haha, I’ll figure it out somehow. Don’t really want my name out there lol.

And thank you, I hope so too! I think it’s kind of a long shot but there’s a slim chance. I’m kind of torn as well because me and my father have trip to Sarnia planned over New Years haha.

If you have any questions or suggestions about stuff in the area feel free to shoot me a message and I can probably help you out

 

[Gold Standard]

This CHL-Russia series has really run its course. not worth watching and is no longer even a decent evaluation tool. Time for Hockey Canada to come up with something new.

Hayton's goal was pretty.

 

[wishywashy19]

This CHL-Russia series has really run its course. not worth watching and is no longer even a decent evaluation tool. Time for Hockey Canada to come up with something new.

Hayton's goal was pretty.

i was thinking the same thing. it looks like pond hockey. How in the world can you pick a team out of that display. For one thing confirmed, get ready for the old stand by - we need four lines playing the Canadian way to win- because there is no one player going to take this team by the reins and drag it to the finish line. No sooking about ice time or roles given.. To make this team you need a motor on full throtle for your 15 minutes of ice time.

 

[SOLR]

Are we optimistic Lafreniere is going to be on a scoring line? I mean, hes the Q leader in points after all? I can't imagine why he wouldnt be but I want to be cautious with HC.

I'd love to see what he and Glass could do...

He's earned the Crosby-like treatment, and it's easier because he's a winger.

I also think he's the best winger in Canada already...so yeah, he should be used offensively.

 

[Half Clapper]

Kirby Dach should be on this roster.

 

[jj cale]

i was thinking the same thing. it looks like pond hockey. How in the world can you pick a team out of that display. For one thing confirmed, get ready for the old stand by - we need four lines playing the Canadian way to win- because there is no one player going to take this team by the reins and drag it to the finish line. No sooking about ice time or roles given.. To make this team you need a motor on full throtle for your 15 minutes of ice time.

Thankfully this rarely or ever happens with our teams at this thing, the kids know how big a deal it is to win at this thing for Canadians so they tend to just accept their roles for the good of the team, the goal is always to win not worry about ice time or what the coach is asking you to do and to their credit they know this and just carry out orders to the best of their ability.

 

[CanucksSTM]

Does anybody else here who have a full WJHC package know when we get the tickets etc ? Also does anybody know anything about the Team Canada jerseys this year ? Are they just last years ?

 

[jj cale]

Does anybody else here who have a full WJHC package know when we get the tickets etc ? Also does anybody know anything about the Team Canada jerseys this year ? Are they just last years ?

Ive heard they are almost sold out right now with precious few tickets left, at least that was what Mackenzie was saying on t.v a few weeks ago.

 

[tfantasy]

Lafreniere-Hayton-Enwhistle
McCleod-Glass-Cozens
Foote-Suzuki - ?
Bellerive-Frost-Leason
?

Dobson-Bouchard
Smith-Joseph
Phillips-Woo
?

DiPietro
Scott


oh, and lets not forget Shirley!

 

[PuckLife]

Soo fan here! Any idea how important the Canada Russia series is to the selection process for Team Canada? I’m still pissed that Villalta will miss Monday’s game. I was hoping for Frost to play better on Thursday. Hayton killed it, but does that mean he will get an invite to camp?​

 

[CanucksSTM]

Ive heard they are almost sold out right now with precious few tickets left, at least that was what Mackenzie was saying on t.v a few weeks ago.

haha, I don't think you answered any of my questions...

 

[bert]

Lafreniere-Hayton-Enwhistle
McCleod-Glass-Cozens
Foote-Suzuki - ?
Bellerive-Frost-Leason
?

Dobson-Bouchard
Smith-Joseph
Phillips-Woo
?

DiPietro
Scott


oh, and lets not forget Shirley!

Id imagine that returning player Alex Formenton will make the team. I mean he was playing in the NHL this season too.

 

[landy92mack29]

If I was picking the team and no NHLers are returned I'd go with

Lafreniere-Glass-Tippett
Frost-Hayton-Suzuki
Formenton-Dach-A Thomas
Leason-Leschyshyn-Dellandrea
Veleno/McLeod

Smith-Dobson
Byram-Bouchard
Joseph-Woo
Brook

DiPietro
Scott

 

[jj cale]

haha, I don't think you answered any of my questions...

Im sorry about that, it seemed from that your post that part of it was inquiring about ticket packages, i must have misunderstood.

 

[MeHateHe]

Does anybody else here who have a full WJHC package know when we get the tickets etc ? Also does anybody know anything about the Team Canada jerseys this year ? Are they just last years ?

Check your spam filter because I have been getting updates from Hockey Canada. The last one said that delivery information will be updated by late November, but I believe if you want to have electronic tickets you should already be able to sign up for that through Ticketmaster in Vancouver or Select Your Tickets in Victoria.

 

[CanucksSTM]

Check your spam filter because I have been getting updates from Hockey Canada. The last one said that delivery information will be updated by late November, but I believe if you want to have electronic tickets you should already be able to sign up for that through Ticketmaster in Vancouver or Select Your Tickets in Victoria.

Hmm.. Yeah I forsure haven't gotten any emails. My tickets are tied into my Canucks Season Tickets. Wonder if it has something to do with that. I will have to email my account manager I guess. Cheers bud.

 

[JackSlater]

CHL Power Rankings: Halfway takeaways from CIBC Canada-Russia Series - Sportsnet.ca

The above article mentions a rumour that Vilardi will be "ready to go to selection camp." If true I don't really like the sound of it.

 

[newfy]

CHL Power Rankings: Halfway takeaways from CIBC Canada-Russia Series - Sportsnet.ca

The above article mentions a rumour that Vilardi will be "ready to go to selection camp." If true I don't really like the sound of it.

Would be a tough decision on him. Hasnt played forever and was already on the slower side to begin with. If a few guys stay in the NHL maybe you bring him for the skill on the PP but does he get brought if hes looking more like a bottom 6 player? If they get a few NHLers back they'll have scoring, do they want a slow skilled guy in the bottom 6? I would be trying for speed and versatility in my bottom 6 personally but itll be interesting to see what Hockey Canada does here

 

[Get North]

Vilardi is a lock if he's cleared to play. He's a high-end talent and worth taking a chance on, even if he's a poor skater, start him on the 4th line RW or 13th forward like Batherson last year. He's 19 years old, he is an elite player. There's room for a slow player as long as he's talented and you have speed in the line-up to make up for it.

 

[kabidjan18]

What?

Gabe Vilardi would be the best player on your team. Period. What is this bottom six talk I'm hearing? Not a single U20 player in the OHL, not a single one is on pace to match his 1.81 PPG from last season, and pace usually starts out high and then reduces to the mean as the season goes on. If he actually rebounds poorly from injury, then you can talk whether or not to take him or not. I don't know how anyone could stand here, knowing what we know about Vilardi as a player and say "oh, well maybe he's a 4th liner but do we even want him as a 4th liner?"

 

[newfy]

What?

Gabe Vilardi would be the best player on your team. Period. What is this bottom six talk I'm hearing? Not a single U20 player in the OHL, not a single one is on pace to match his 1.81 PPG from last season, and pace usually starts out high and then reduces to the mean as the season goes on. If he actually rebounds poorly from injury, then you can talk whether or not to take him or not. I don't know how anyone could stand here, knowing what we know about Vilardi as a player and say "oh, well maybe he's a 4th liner but do we even want him as a 4th liner?"

I'm talking if hes only healthy essentially at the camp. Say he can skate but cant do contact at camp but will be cleared for contact come tournament time do you take him? If hes at the camp and plays but is clearly outplayed by 13 forwards because hes so rusty do you still bring him?

I'm aware of what his talent level is and he would be deadly on the PP but if his first time on the ice is in a Canada jersey and he hasnt skated at all before that I think its a little ridiculous to not have some concerns. I also think youre exaggerating when you say he would be the best player on the team. Yes he lit up the OHL last year but hasnt skated basically since last season when he went out hurt. The guys hes competing with are in top game shape mid way through their seasons and high end players themselves. I really dont think a rusty/half injured Vilardi will be better than (not long term, for this tournament) Thomas, Rasmussen or Foremnton who have been playing in the NHL against Pros. I dont think he'll be better than Lafreniere or Cody glass for guys playing in junior. Even if hes better than some of these guys, he wont be better than all. Remember this is an out of shape Vilardi we're talking, not a 1.81 ppg after a full training camp Vilardi

I think your big issue is how you say "if he actually rebounds poorly from injury" you can say that. My issue is that I dont think there will be enough time to judge if he rebounds poorly or not before the tournament starts. Is he worth leaving another high end, first round pick type of player (because thats who Canada has to choose from) at home when you dont know if he could be done by the end of the first game. Do you bring him in and play him as the 13th forward and a lot on the PP to ease him in.

Its definitely not the easy decision you make it sound like

 

[kabidjan18]

I'm talking if hes only healthy essentially at the camp. Say he can skate but cant do contact at camp but will be cleared for contact come tournament time do you take him? If hes at the camp and plays but is clearly outplayed by 13 forwards because hes so rusty do you still bring him?

I'm aware of what his talent level is and he would be deadly on the PP but if his first time on the ice is in a Canada jersey and he hasnt skated at all before that I think its a little ridiculous to not have some concerns. I also think youre exaggerating when you say he would be the best player on the team. Yes he lit up the OHL last year but hasnt skated basically since last season when he went out hurt. The guys hes competing with are in top game shape mid way through their seasons and high end players themselves. I really dont think a rusty/half injured Vilardi will be better than (not long term, for this tournament) Thomas, Rasmussen or Foremnton who have been playing in the NHL against Pros. I dont think he'll be better than Lafreniere or Cody glass for guys playing in junior. Even if hes better than some of these guys, he wont be better than all. Remember this is an out of shape Vilardi we're talking, not a 1.81 ppg after a full training camp Vilardi

I think your big issue is how you say "if he actually rebounds poorly from injury" you can say that. My issue is that I dont think there will be enough time to judge if he rebounds poorly or not before the tournament starts. Is he worth leaving another high end, first round pick type of player (because thats who Canada has to choose from) at home when you dont know if he could be done by the end of the first game. Do you bring him in and play him as the 13th forward and a lot on the PP to ease him in.

Its definitely not the easy decision you make it sound like

I don't think you can simply assert that this "Rusty Vilardi" character is actually who we are going to be dealing with, or that it is even true that this character exists. This assertion relies on some commitments about the way players rebound from injury, so on and so forth, I hesitate to call them "metaphysical" but in a sense that's what they are. Firstly, it's not apparent that it is a necessary truth that players who return from injury face an extended period of "rusty" time such that the qualitative content of their performance is adversely affected to render them significantly less effective. Furthermore, camp is usually early-mid December, and the tournament begins late December. So this "Rusty Vilardi" would not only have to maintain his "rusted" state throughout camp but also weeks leading up until the beginning of the tournament. This is not even true in past cases involving Vilardi himself. He did not spend a significant number of weeks playing poorly to "de-rust" after the last injury he faced. Neither is it clearly apparent that your hypothetical camp scenario is true, as all we have is that "rumors hold...he is ready to go."

So I'm skeptical you can simply assert a character exists, without providing any quantitative justifications, and then compare this fictitious character to XYZ players. We have Vilardi's body of work over the past two seasons, and everything in between. We know who Gabe Vilardi is. If he, in camp or in pre-tournament scrimmages, gives us reason to believe otherwise, then we can speak on otherwise. It's not particularly meaningful to guestimate where a "rusty Vilardi", whose value or characteristics are not quantifiable by any quantitative means but merely by intuitive placement, would stand with regards to other athletes at camp.

 

[newfy]

I don't think you can simply assert that this "Rusty Vilardi" character is actually who we are going to be dealing with, or that it is even true that this character exists. This assertion relies on some commitments about the way players rebound from injury, so on and so forth, I hesitate to call them "metaphysical" but in a sense that's what they are. Firstly, it's not apparent that it is a necessary truth that players who return from injury face an extended period of "rusty" time such that the qualitative content of their performance is adversely affected to render them significantly less effective. Furthermore, camp is usually early-mid December, and the tournament begins late December. So this "Rusty Vilardi" would not only have to maintain his "rusted" state throughout camp but also weeks leading up until the beginning of the tournament. This is not even true in past cases involving Vilardi himself. He did not spend a significant number of weeks playing poorly to "de-rust" after the last injury he faced. Neither is it clearly apparent that your hypothetical camp scenario is true, as all we have is that "rumors hold...he is ready to go."

So I'm skeptical you can simply assert a character exists, without providing any quantitative justifications, and then compare this fictitious character to XYZ players. We have Vilardi's body of work over the past two seasons, and everything in between. We know who Gabe Vilardi is. If he, in camp or in pre-tournament scrimmages, gives us reason to believe otherwise, then we can speak on otherwise. It's not particularly meaningful to guestimate where a "rusty Vilardi", whose value or characteristics are not quantifiable by any quantitative means but merely by intuitive placement, would stand with regards to other athletes at camp.

Its not apparent that people returning from an injury face a period of rusty time? That is the biggest crock I've ever heard. You want quantitative justification? Do you understand basic human physiology?

He hasnt played in months and a large part of that time he wasnt able to train either. He isnt going to be in high physical condition. The camp isnt very long for Canada in the winter generally, last years was 4 days. So if he comes back just for camp hes going to have to go hard in camp for 4 days, a few exhibition games and then its game time. You think thats enough to get into game shape compared to guys who have had full rookie camps, prospect tournaments, NHL training camps and regular season play to this point then I guess thats you but I think he'll be rustier than those guys.

as for his last return from injury, how long did he skate before that return? Was he actually on the ice for a month before returning to the line up? Yes I'm making a hypothetical situation that he could be ready to go for camp only, if hes ready well before that than yes ew're not having this conversation.

You can choose not to worry about a player who hasnt played in months getting his first playing time in a short, physical tourney with little rest time but I think that could be tough on him. It would be a difficult decision weighing the risk vs reward of bringing him vs other players. I'm not even saying dont bring him, but your long paragraph about how he wont be rusty at all seems pretty ridiculous to me

 

[kabidjan18]

Its not apparent that people returning from an injury face a period of rusty time? That is the biggest crock I've ever heard. You want quantitative justification? Do you understand basic human physiology?

He hasnt played in months and a large part of that time he wasnt able to train either. He isnt going to be in high physical condition. The camp isnt very long for Canada in the winter generally, last years was 4 days. So if he comes back just for camp hes going to have to go hard in camp for 4 days, a few exhibition games and then its game time. You think thats enough to get into game shape compared to guys who have had full rookie camps, prospect tournaments, NHL training camps and regular season play to this point then I guess thats you but I think he'll be rustier than those guys.

as for his last return from injury, how long did he skate before that return? Was he actually on the ice for a month before returning to the line up? Yes I'm making a hypothetical situation that he could be ready to go for camp only, if hes ready well before that than yes ew're not having this conversation.

You can choose not to worry about a player who hasnt played in months getting his first playing time in a short, physical tourney with little rest time but I think that could be tough on him. It would be a difficult decision weighing the risk vs reward of bringing him vs other players. I'm not even saying dont bring him, but your long paragraph about how he wont be rusty at all seems pretty ridiculous to me

This is the entire problem with your argument. It's entirely grounded in vague intuitions about human physiology. Basically, it's grounded in your feelings.

Sure, a player may inevitably feel a bit rusty when getting back onto the ice. There's no necessary causal relation between that feeling and a significantly reduced state of performance, much less an extended reduced state of performance. Players routinely have big games or stretches coming back from injuries. There are numerous examples of this, one of which I already offered up was Vilardi himself only last year. So, whether they felt a bit rusty donning the skates again, whether they felt a bit bloated taking the ice again is irrelevant to the actual claim that it is a necessary truth that he will have a period of significantly reduced performance, such that it would affect his performance aka manifest statistically. And you have to make an even stronger claim, because there are two weeks between camp and the tournament, that not only will he have a period of significantly reduced performance but that this state will be extended over weeks. That not only seems like it's not a necessary truth, it seems almost rarely to be the truth. But its the truth that your argument requires, and it's what you're trying to extend your argument to say.

So that is my gripe with your argument. You take something everyone can agree upon, "a player might feel rusty after not doing XYZ for a while" and try to extrapolate that argument to make claims about extended underperformance that are no way implicated by the actual claim that "a player might feel rusty". Players feel rusty all the time, and still manage to perform at an extremely high level. You start out trying to make it seem like you're making a scientific claim, but beyond the use of the word "physiology" there's little scientific content, little statistical content, and mostly just your gut feeling about things.

 

[newfy]

This is the entire problem with your argument. It's entirely grounded in vague intuitions about human physiology. Basically, it's grounded in your feelings.

Sure, a player may inevitably feel a bit rusty when getting back onto the ice. There's no necessary causal relation between that feeling and a significantly reduced state of performance, much less an extended reduced state of performance. Players routinely have big games or stretches coming back from injuries. There are numerous examples of this, one of which I already offered up was Vilardi himself only last year. So, whether they felt a bit rusty donning the skates again, whether they felt a bit bloated taking the ice again is irrelevant to the actual claim that it is a necessary truth that he will have a period of significantly reduced performance, such that it would affect his performance aka manifest statistically. And you have to make an even stronger claim, because there are two weeks between camp and the tournament, that not only will he have a period of significantly reduced performance but that this state will be extended over weeks. That not only seems like it's not a necessary truth, it seems almost rarely to be the truth. But its the truth that your argument requires, and it's what you're trying to extend your argument to say.

So that is my gripe with your argument. You take something everyone can agree upon, "a player might feel rusty after not doing XYZ for a while" and try to extrapolate that argument to make claims about extended underperformance that are no way implicated by the actual claim that "a player might feel rusty". Players feel rusty all the time, and still manage to perform at an extremely high level. You start out trying to make it seem like you're making a scientific claim, but beyond the use of the word "physiology" there's little scientific content, little statistical content, and mostly just your gut feeling about things.

Its not grounded in my feelings. My degree had me take plenty of human physiology courses lol its anything but feelings. If he actually hasnt skated prior to camp, his physical condition wont be at its peak performance. It takes a while for the body to adapt and get back to game shape aka being rusty. The body needs stress and stimulus to adapt and get stronger which Vilardi hasnt been getting in this scenario.

His cardio conditioning will be lower than normal because he hasnt been skating, he especially wont have been skating in game situations which are more stop and start and reactionary than you can really produce in practice, his muscles will be weaker so he'll be less explosive, muscle memory wont be what it is at peak shape, hasnt had to brace for contact in a long time etc.

You can say we have proof of people not being rusty but you have anecdotal evidence by saying "oh we've seen people come back and still put up points" but dont say its me using feelings. The science is there and I cant believe I have to explain that someone returning from a long lay off from playing will be rusty. It is not only scientifically proven, it seems like common sense.