Cam Talbot - Mod warning #251

[Miamipuck]

And if you don't make the playoffs.....?

No worries the Rangers will have cap space.

 

[NYRangers84]

And if you don't make the playoffs.....?

They would definitely make the playoffs. They would be an even more skilled team than they are now.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Talbot has been bad. Its not even about the number of goals hes giving up, its about the amount of scoring chances given up because he can't control a rebound to save his life.

The book is out on him, throw everything at the net and get bodies to the crease because he doesn't catch anything clean. Hell hes shown that he has difficulty keeping unscreened shots from 40+ feet out from hitting the back of the net.

The D in front of him hasn't been good (though the hysteria is overblown) but at some point, your goalie has to make a ****ing save. Talbot hasn't done that often enough.

A big LOL to anyone who thinks the difference between Lundqvist and Talbot isn't huge. The Rangers are probably running a perfect month right now if Lundqvist is healthy.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

They would definitely make the playoffs. They would be an even more skilled team than they are now.

Hyperbole.

 

[NYRangers84]

While I agree with NYRangers84 in theory (please check out my posts in the Henrik thread), I don't think Stasny or Stralman are good answers to the replacement question. My feeling is that the Rangers are a little "unlucky" that their superstar, cornerstone, franchise player (yes, Henrik is all of those things, not denying it) is a goalie.

I think the gap between superstar/average centers/defenseman is larger than it is for goalies. That's the root of the argument. The Rangers CAN win with Lundqvist, they just need to get "luckier" than teams built with and paying big money to elite (I hate that word) centers and defenseman.

This about sums it all up. The gap is so small between goalies that it's not worth spending a good chunk of your cap space on. I'm not saying this because I don't like Lundqvist or anything but because it hurts to watch your team not built to it's potential.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I forget what the stat is but the Rangers have had a ridiculous record when scoring 4 or more, something like 2 losses over the last 5 or more seasons.


Both losses have come this season. Guess who was in net for those games?

 

[Off Sides]

They would definitely make the playoffs. They would be an even more skilled team than they are now.

See while I at least partially think Lundqvist may carry a cap hit slightly larger than he should given the comparable in Rinne or maybe even Rask, I think 7.6-8M cap hit should have sealed the deal.

That statement ^, that they'd be more skilled is where I think you are looking at what the optimal would be rather than what the Rangers may likely do with any extra cap space.

The Glass contract and all the others prior, Pyatt, whomever, the list is long, would more than likely be signed rather than them using that cap space to sign any difference makers that would make up the difference between Lundqvist and a lesser cap hit goalie.

So on a team where they were 100% perfect in their evaluations on their needs and they nailed every contract right where it should be, I think your idea makes some sense, however on the Rangers or probably any other team, probably at least half of any gained cap space is going to most likely be poorly allocated.

 

[NYRangers84]

See while I at least partially think Lundqvist may carry a cap hit slightly larger than he should given the comparable in Rinne or maybe even Rask, I think 7.6-8M cap hit should have sealed the deal.

That statement ^, that they'd be more skilled is where I think you are looking at what the optimal would be rather than what the Rangers may likely do with any extra cap space.

The Glass contract and all the others prior, Pyatt, whomever, the list is long, would more than likely be signed rather than them using that cap space to sign any difference makers that would make up the difference between Lundqvist and a lesser cap hit goalie.

So on a team where they were 100% perfect in their evaluations on their needs and they nailed every contract right where it should be, I think your idea makes some sense, however on the Rangers or probably any other team, probably at least half of any gained cap space is going to most likely be poorly allocated.

Good point. Some of those signings were downright shameful.

 

[nevesis]

Cam Talbot is an excellent goaltender. He will be a starter after his contract expires next year. Yes, a starter, here, in the NHL.

For those interested, watch this clip of Cam from 4 years ago. You can see some of the hard work that goalies put in to hone their skills behind the scenes.

It's fun to watch guys like him work this hard to get to this level.

 

[Beacon]

So you think subtracting Lundqvist and adding a $6M player or so makes this team better? You won't find a lot of hockey people to agree with you.

Yes I do. And just because an opinion isn't popular doesn't mean it's wrong. I've also backed it up with some good numbers so it's not something I pulled out of my butt either.

Let's keep in mind that whoever we'd add would NOT be an RFA, but a UFA, likely one who woldn't give us a hometown discount. A $6 UFA is someone like Vermette. Somehow I don't see Vermette as being a better addition to the team than Lundqvist. Granted if you could add 2 players on RFA contracts that also feature a hometown discount, it's better, but I doubt we get TWO players like McDonagh for $6, we'll get one player like Vermette.

 

[Inferno]

Cam Talbot is an excellent goaltender. He will be a starter after his contract expires next year. Yes, a starter, here, in the NHL.

For those interested, watch this clip of Cam from 4 years ago. You can see some of the hard work that goalies put in to hone their skills behind the scenes.

It's fun to watch guys like him work this hard to get to this level.

you keep posting this as if it means anything.

I bet Jason Labarbara has videos like this. who cares?

I bet Steve Valiquette worked his butt off...doesnt mean he didnt suck.

Weekes was a starter for a while...he still sucked.

Goaltending is a premium position. Their are only 30 starting jobs in the entire NHL. Only 30 backup jobs in the entire NHL.

You can't be good. You have to be exceptional. You can't blame every goal thats scored on the goalie on the Defense. Sometimes, your goalie has to make the damn save. Even if it's hard.

Expecting a goalie to only make the easy saves is for beer league.

this is the NHL.

 

[nevesis]

I bet Jason Labarbara has videos like this. who cares?

I bet Steve Valiquette worked his butt off...doesnt mean he didnt suck.

Weekes was a starter for a while...he still sucked.

Talbot is better than all three goalies you mentioned.

 

[Inferno]

Talbot is better than all three goalies you mentioned.

I actually don't disagree with you there.

I also think Talbot is a LOT better than what he's showing here. I seriously question if it's just nerves here. The most obvious reason is the way his glove hand is flat out missing simple saves...pucks are bouncing off.

Ive seen it in beer leagues, ive seen it in the NHL...when pucks start bouncing off the glove, its almost always mental, not physical.

Talbot will be fine. I actually have a lot of faith in him believe it or not.

I'm NOT one of the guys who wants Skapski in net. I think you go right back to Talbot tonight.

But, i'm not going to let his horrible play off the hook either. He needs to be held responsible for his play. Likewise you need to look at the larger sample size, and read the obvious signs, that he's much better than he's showing here.

Weekes always had that deer in headlights look. I was petrified when he was in net. Vally wasnt very mobile. Just a big mofo in net who could stop the easy shots.

Talbot is actually very mobile for a guy of his size, has damn near flawless form, and does a phenomenal job of staying square to the shooter and not losing his posts. Right now is 99% mental for him.

The way you fix that, imho, isnt to bench him, its to show faith in him, and keep playing him.

he's a pro. he'll work it out.


Same thing with MSL. I've yelled and screamed about him. But I knew eventually he'd work it out.

I'd still let him walk after this season if it means we can keep Stepan, MZA, and Hagelin.

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

I actually don't disagree with you there.

I also think Talbot is a LOT better than what he's showing here. I seriously question if it's just nerves here. The most obvious reason is the way his glove hand is flat out missing simple saves...pucks are bouncing off.

Ive seen it in beer leagues, ive seen it in the NHL...when pucks start bouncing off the glove, its almost always mental, not physical.

Talbot will be fine. I actually have a lot of faith in him believe it or not.

I'm NOT one of the guys who wants Skapski in net. I think you go right back to Talbot tonight.

But, i'm not going to let his horrible play off the hook either. He needs to be held responsible for his play. Likewise you need to look at the larger sample size, and read the obvious signs, that he's much better than he's showing here.

Weekes always had that deer in headlights look. I was petrified when he was in net. Vally wasnt very mobile. Just a big mofo in net who could stop the easy shots.

Talbot is actually very mobile for a guy of his size, has damn near flawless form, and does a phenomenal job of staying square to the shooter and not losing his posts. Right now is 99% mental for him.

The way you fix that, imho, isnt to bench him, its to show faith in him, and keep playing him.

he's a pro. he'll work it out.


Same thing with MSL. I've yelled and screamed about him. But I knew eventually he'd work it out.

I'd still let him walk after this season if it means we can keep Stepan, MZA, and Hagelin.

I do believe it's nerves. Talbot was suddenly thrown into the starting lineup after Hank went down. That's a huge mental shift.

At the end of the day, even if Talbot always becomes a high end-backup, that's more than fine. Every team could use a quality backup.

 

[Baby Punisher]

My point exactly and that's why Lundqvist's contract was a mistake.

I don't think Lundqvist's contract was a mistake. It could have been way more than it is considering how much he is getting. Ina few years it may seem like a bargain, however as I have said before if Talbot or whomever displays the talent and ability that would make trading Lundqvist easier down the road than perhaps you listen to what is offered and look for that can't pass up deal.

But make no mistake about it we don't have the success we have experienced since the lock out without Lundqvist.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

Talbot is a good goaltender. That's why he's in the NHL.

Talbot is not a starting goaltender for a good NHL team.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Talbot is better than all three goalies you mentioned.

Well, Labarbara was a starting goalie in the NHL at one point(well split duties I guess, 45 GP) and posted decent numbers in that season, so lets see when Talbot is up to that point. Labarbara was also a pretty decent backup for PHX.

 

[PromNite]

He has been pretty bad. Lets in about a softie or 2 a game. It really goes to show the strength of the team that we've been able to win with him in net by scoring at the clip we are

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Talbot is playing like Lundqvist played last year when he had possibly the worst stretch of his career. Didn't Talbot play pretty regularly then and kick ass? What happened?

 

[OnlyTruth]

Talbot allowed less goals than opposition goalies in most of the games. That must mean something.

 

[Raspewtin]

Henrik Lundqvist pretty routinely does that, but it doesn't mean much supposedly.

 

[jniklast]

The gap between superstar and average (which Talbot hasn't even been in this stretch) goalie might be smaller than for skaters, but they are also on the ice much more than skaters. If you factor that in, I think it's alright to pay your superstar goalie as much as a superstar center.

 

[egelband]

I think Talbot is getting better. He hasnt been able to develop much over the last couple years. Conversely, i think this last couple weeks has been a blessing in disguise. Cam getting his game together while Henrik rests. Not to mention the great record.
Sometimes a team needs some challenges, some ups-and-downs, to grow. In terms of the team overall and individual players. Cam and the team have made Hanks injury into lemonade, so to speak.

 

[Doctyl]

Talbot allowed less goals than opposition goalies in most of the games. That must mean something.

Out offense is really ****ing good

 

[nyr2k2]

Every goalie is entitled to a rough stretch, but he needs to step it up soon. It's incredibly unlikely that we continue to score four per game, so we'll need him to be able to carry us once in a while.