Calling it Now: Tampa is a Serious Threat Again, Nashville has Screwed Themselves, and These facts are not Unrelated

[Brookbank]

Nashville center depth is tragic.

Why did they trade away Cody Glass ? He has 4 assists in Pitt. Not lighting it up but there's some potential there.

Nashville got shut out tonight.

 

[Soundgarden]

Why did they trade away Cody Glass ? He has 4 assists in Pitt. Not lighting it up but there's some potential there.

Nashville got shut out tonight.

Cap space.

 

[Acallabeth]

I can't think of a recent-ish case of Tampa overholding onto a declining player. It must be a strong part of their success over the last decade.

 

[Armourboy]

Cap space.

And he ain't that great to start with. Parssinen could more than fill his spot but Brunette won't play him.

As much as people point to the contracts our bigger issue is the coaching staff. Stamkos some nights is getting more time than Forsberg. He hasn't tried to adjust anything other than to shuffle lines, which he seems to change every shift. He plays his young guys 7 minutes a night while shuffling who they play with.

Right now Brunette has this team playing to its weaknesses rather than its strength

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Never criticized the GM. Zito is fantastic. Tampa has great management too - Just said letting Stammer go was obvious and not some smooth brain GM work.

Said Florida teams have a competitive advantage in free agency. It's a fact I'm really done with your straw man nonsense about it.

It's actually really difficult and most teams fall into the trap of holding onto their declining star players too long because of emotional attachment. What they did was the right move, but it's rare.

 

[Laus723]

And he ain't that great to start with. Parssinen could more than fill his spot but Brunette won't play him.

As much as people point to the contracts our bigger issue is the coaching staff. Stamkos some nights is getting more time than Forsberg. He hasn't tried to adjust anything other than to shuffle lines, which he seems to change every shift. He plays his young guys 7 minutes a night while shuffling who they play with.

Right now Brunette has this team playing to its weaknesses rather than its strength

He’s a good coach, but we’d still be out in the early rounds if he was allowed to stay on. He has a ways to go, hopefully Nashvilles additions figure out how to mesh and go on a run.

Never criticized the GM. Zito is fantastic. Tampa has great management too - Just said letting Stammer go was obvious and not some smooth brain GM work.

Said Florida teams have a competitive advantage in free agency. It's a fact I'm really done with your straw man nonsense about it.

“Straw man,” what exactly was straw man that I said? Straw man is everyone pointing to the “no tax” (I pay plenty of f***ing taxes btw) and ignoring everything else I said. You still haven’t answered where it helped us or Tampa the majority of our existences. No one else can either.

I can't think of a recent-ish case of Tampa overholding onto a declining player. It must be a strong part of their success over the last decade.

With McDonough they seem to have imped the gun and circled back. It’s a fine line.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

He’s a good coach, but we’d still be out in the early rounds if he was allowed to stay on. He has a ways to go, hopefully Nashvilles additions figure out how to mesh and go on a run.

“Straw man,” what exactly was straw man that I said? Straw man is everyone pointing to the “no tax” (I pay plenty of f***ing taxes btw) and ignoring everything else I said. You still haven’t answered where it helped us or Tampa the majority of our existences. No one else can either.

With McDonough they seem to have imped the gun and circled back. It’s a fine line.

This isn't the defence you think it is.

Showing that your two franchises were so incompetent that they couldn't utilize a competitive advantage isn't the flex you think it is.

Also, the cap didn't exist until 2005.

Also, the flat cap really made this effect exponentially stronger.

So there are a great number of ways to point out what a ridiculous competitive advantage it is.

Now, none of this means that the Panthers and Lightning haven't been managed well to take advantage of these benefits. But acting like they're not extremely prominent is just delusional.

 

[DFC]

One time on Trailer Park Boys, Bubbled caught J-Roc pulling his goalie.

 

[Laus723]

This isn't the defence you think it is.

Showing that your two franchises were so incompetent that they couldn't utilize a competitive advantage isn't the flex you think it is.

Also, the cap didn't exist until 2005.

Also, the flat cap really made this effect exponentially stronger.

So there are a great number of ways to point out what a ridiculous competitive advantage it is.

Now, none of this means that the Panthers and Lightning haven't been managed well to take advantage of these benefits. But acting like they're not extremely prominent is just delusional.

I love the whining. The entire point is that it takes great players, a great GM, owners willing to spend to the cap, and players willing to “be paid less.” Totally agree it shows the incompetence, we had one of the worst owners in sports who set internal caps, made players pay for their game worns, and expected a casino to be built on adjacent land that would pay for the shortcomings he created.

I mean, what’s the frustration? That we’ve been able to keep players who’ve played well here but didn’t do well in other places, or that we have a staff great enough to find these guys in the first place, that we’re now a destination most guys don’t want to leave, or that your team is so incompetent they can’t do the same?

Plenty thought we’d struggle after losing Montour, OEL, our whole 4th line, and Stolarz. Just like they thought we’d struggle to start last year with the injuries we had. Zito’s an elite GM. He’s done an incredible job turning over the roster and creating a top team. The only guys still here since he came in are Barkov, Bob, and Ek.

The delusion is fans like you thinking the “competitive advantage” is what brought us the Cup and kept us competitive. Not many GMs would move a 115 point Huberdeau, a top pair d-man, a first, and a prospect for Tkachuk AND lock him in long term. That was balls and he was roasted for it AND moving off of Brunette after a great offensive season. Those moves pushed us over the edge. But, keep thinking it’s just taxes.

Tampa’s had their own struggles with retaining guys or not fully taking advantage of being a no tax team. See: Sergachev, Stamkos, etc. Other similarities to the Panthers: an incredible owner, great roster building, players who’ve fit well, a staff who found kucherov in the round they did.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I can't speak to the argument you're having with others, but against me it seems like you're having a zero-sum debate with yourself.

I'm certainly not suggesting that the only difference between Florida and Columbus is a tax advantage.

But to suggest that paying just about every prominent player somewhere between 1-3 million dollars less in a hard capped league isn't a MASSIVE advantage is absolutely bananas.

Again, the only cups that matter are the ones that are won. So just like I believe that the Lightning of 2020 and 2021, the Dodgers of 2020, the Devils of 95, etc are full value because you can only win the cups you play for. Nothing takes away from the fact that your team is the defending Stanley Cup champions and, as a fan, I can only speculate that must be amazing.

But I'm a fan of a team that pays far higher taxes which, again, isn't the sole reason our teams are where they are (though I'm happy with my team's trajectory) but it plays a factor. And if you refuse to acknowledge that when Barry Trotz himself has literally said it about being GM in Nashville, then there isn't much of a conversation to have here.

 

[strattonius]

I love the whining. The entire point is that it takes great players, a great GM, owners willing to spend to the cap, and players willing to “be paid less.” Totally agree it shows the incompetence, we had one of the worst owners in sports who set internal caps, made players pay for their game worns, and expected a casino to be built on adjacent land that would pay for the shortcomings he created.

I mean, what’s the frustration? That we’ve been able to keep players who’ve played well here but didn’t do well in other places, or that we have a staff great enough to find these guys in the first place, that we’re now a destination most guys don’t want to leave, or that your team is so incompetent they can’t do the same?

Plenty thought we’d struggle after losing Montour, OEL, our whole 4th line, and Stolarz. Just like they thought we’d struggle to start last year with the injuries we had. Zito’s an elite GM. He’s done an incredible job turning over the roster and creating a top team. The only guys still here since he came in are Barkov, Bob, and Ek.

The delusion is fans like you thinking the “competitive advantage” is what brought us the Cup and kept us competitive. Not many GMs would move a 115 point Huberdeau, a top pair d-man, a first, and a prospect for Tkachuk AND lock him in long term. That was balls and he was roasted for it AND moving off of Brunette after a great offensive season. Those moves pushed us over the edge. But, keep thinking it’s just taxes.

Tampa’s had their own struggles with retaining guys or not fully taking advantage of being a no tax team. See: Sergachev, Stamkos, etc. Other similarities to the Panthers: an incredible owner, great roster building, players who’ve fit well, a staff who found kucherov in the round they did.

Who are you debating though?

The Florida teams have a competitive advantage in free agency. The Florida teams are currently are well managed. Both can be true.

 

[Laus723]

Who are you debating though?

The Florida teams have a competitive advantage in free agency. The Florida teams are currently are well managed. Both can be true.

I'm debating everyone crying about the "advantage." In what Free Agency? Who has Florida added of late from FA that's been some egregious underpay? We added OEL at a low rate right after he was bought out last year, he came in and played well and is now getting paid more by Toronto. Schmidt was bought out and is the new OEL. ERod wasn't seen as some big add. Some thought the Mikkola deal was foolish, we have $14.5MIL tied up in goaltending, and we brought in a whole new 4th line after the last one priced itself out. This is all part of the "debate," last year's 4th line was incredible, Stenlund is an incredible PKer and shutdown guy, but Zito didn't hold onto he and the others. He understands where the money should go and is using the cap wisely. He also didn't pay to keep Montour, OEL, Gudas, and he moved Duclair. I'm not arguing that we don't have an advantage, I'm arguing whether or not it's just a blanket advantage or if there's a lot that goes into it actually making it work.

Tampa didn't underpay Guentzel imo, he was paid at or around market value. Perhaps someone would've overpaid him like Florida did Bob, but Tampa used a 3rd to get his rights before he hit the market.Both Tampa and Florida have used draft and prospect capital to bring players in and out. Most teams don't do that, they hold onto it (as Tallon didin his failure to move Borgstrom and Denisenko for the likes of McDonagh or Pacioretty).

Reinhart wasn't as successful as he was here in Buffalo, he could've gotten more but he knows what it's like and chose to stay. Verhaeghe didn't peak until he got here. Forsling bounced around the waiver wire, Bennett was struggling in Calgary, Kuli is a former first overall that wanted to come back and stay, Lundell is a homegrown product and has a ways to go to reach his potential.

Sorry, but it's lazy and disingenuous to just point to the "tax advantage" as the aha to ours and Tampa's successes. Both organizations have put in the hard work. And I hate Vegas (not because they beat us, I already did), but they're aggressive AF with their roster construction and deconstruction and have an owner willing to pay well above what others do to acquire pieces at the deadline. How many teams do that?

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

While Tampa has improved I don't think letting Stamkos walk was a good choice. Obviously the $8mil from Nashville was an overpay but his reported ask from Tampa was $4-5mil. For a 40 goal 80 point player that's a steal. Before anyone says "product of Kucherov" most of Stamkos goals and points last year were even strength and most of his even strength time was without Kucherov. Tampa went from the top powerplay in the league last year (28.6%) to so far this year hitting 20%.

 

[PhysicalGraffiti]

I've been to or watched all Bolts game this season and don't consider them much of a threat in the playoffs at all, let alone a Cup contender. Though I am a fairly cynical fan. At least I know the Isles aren't a threat to do anything.

I could be wrong, I just don't see them as that team anymore, I think their window has most likely closed. They've had some good games this year, but they've had some bad ones too. I do believe as long as Point/Kuch/Vasy play to their high level, the Bolts are never out. But the supporting cast is suspect and special teams are weak.

One time on Trailer Park Boys, Bubbled caught J-Roc pulling his goalie.

He was getting changed!

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

Signing a bunch of post prime free agents literally never works.

No idea what Nashville was thinking. All of those guys save Skjei have won and gotten paid. And Skjeis had a ton of deep runs.

Too many miles on too many guys you're counting on. Thought Trotz was smarter than that

 

[King In The North]

Is it ownership that prevents Nashville from tearing it down completely?

 

[Frobbo]

Vasi the last few years was 27/28/29. I feel like that ain't showing age, just playing poorly. Most goalie don't even break out until 25 or 26.

Maybe it is the miles he put on during those cup runs. He is still great...on certain nights.

 

[DFC]

Maybe it is the miles he put on during those cup runs. He is still great...on certain nights.

It's been weird. He has struggled with things like tracking lobbed shots from the point.

He's been good this year more nights than he hasn't been. Said he changed his training program.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Signing a bunch of post prime free agents literally never works.

No idea what Nashville was thinking. All of those guys save Skjei have won and gotten paid. And Skjeis had a ton of deep runs.

Too many miles on too many guys you're counting on. Thought Trotz was smarter than that

Must have been an ownership directive. Trotz is way too smart for this mish mash of a lineup.