Post-Game Talk: Cali nightmares Jets lose 4-3

[Adam da bomb]

Not playing well (not true IMO)
Fking up our PK (he didn't)
Too many minutes (blame Mo)

Oh. I saw just that wheeler is aging so people don’t want him on pk because too many minutes. Not having the right role for team. All things on mo.

 

[bennylundholm]

Man - that's a stretch. Most players on the team hurt our chances of winning tonight.
Wheels is the whipping boy -
Not worth debating

Pretty simple, not hard to figure out.
Wheeler is by far our highest paid player.
He had more total icetime of any player tonight. He is not producing. He needs to produce more.

 

[surixon]

Ehlers doesn't play the corners, so you are making Dubois do a lot of heavy lifting to make that line work. I'd demote Copp to promote Stastny, Stastny-Dubois-Ehlers, Harkins-Lowry-Copp has some familiarity. I don't see enough out of Perfetti to keep him in the lineup, especially on a team that is losing the special teams battles, that he is not factoring into. For me that would be a waste of his ELC at this point. He looks extremely tentative to me, and that's got nothing to do with his linemates.

Yeah its called the play not having slowed down for him yet as well as him playing not to make mistakes. That is typical of a very young player trying to adapt while also trying to earn the trust of his coach to stay in the lineup in a defensive role. The fit isn't there with his center and unsuprisingly that line played better when they went to a more grinding game with players who can grind like Ves and Harkins.

Not that I disagree with your point about wasting a year of his ELC if he isn't going to be used in a manner that can help the team win.

 

[voyageur]

yeah, were losing the special team battles so instead of trying something new with it, lets just send someone down that could help us improve in that area

If you could call up a player that could help the PK, isn't that important too. Because that's the dagger in both games. I agree you can make PP adjustments, but it's not like Vesalainen isn't a good option too, he's been the better player each game (maturity matters). I am quite steadfast in what I see, a player who isn't NHL ready. Maybe Perfetti can get more ice time, since he just lost the 3rd line position to a better player, at this point, by being the leader of the Moose, playing at a level that isn't above him.

 

[gojetsgo]

Oh. I saw just that wheeler is aging so people don’t want him on pk because too many minutes. Not having the right role for team. All things on mo.

nobody called him out for being bad on the pk, it was only about his mins which we put on pomo

 

[Adam da bomb]

If you could call up a player that could help the PK, isn't that important too. Because that's the dagger in both games. I agree you can make PP adjustments, but it's not like Vesalainen isn't a good option too, he's been the better player each game (maturity matters). I am quite steadfast in what I see, a player who isn't NHL ready. Maybe Perfetti can get more ice time, since he just lost the 3rd line position to a better player, at this point, by being the leader of the Moose, playing at a level that isn't above him.

Yep lots of room on 4th line for role players considering minutes.

 

[surixon]

Agree -
They looked exhausted

I can see Mark due to not playing in over a week due to the suspension but Wheeler has looked like that since preseason and imo is a sign that he needs a lesser role to get the most out of him. Conner was skating but didn't have much help as the game went on imo.

 

[LowLefty]

who called him out for f***ing up our pk? people don't want him on it because it's too many mins which we blame pomo for...

Most of the posts ran something like this:

why the fk is wheels on the PK

rather than:

why the fk does Mo have Wheels out on the PK

One sounds like wheels fked up the PK
One sounds like it's too many minutes
You could interpret this a few different ways I suppose - you'll post does I nice job of explaining what you think (and that's not a shot - thanks).

 

[Adam da bomb]

If you could call up a player that could help the PK, isn't that important too. Because that's the dagger in both games. I agree you can make PP adjustments, but it's not like Vesalainen isn't a good option too, he's been the better player each game (maturity matters). I am quite steadfast in what I see, a player who isn't NHL ready. Maybe Perfetti can get more ice time, since he just lost the 3rd line position to a better player, at this point, by being the leader of the Moose, playing at a level that isn't above him.

Calling ves a better player at anything other than physical and grinding is a stretch.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Most of the posts ran something like this:

why the fk is wheels on the PK

rather than:

why the fk does Mo have Wheels out on the PK

One sounds like wheels fked up the PK
One sounds like it's too many minutes
You could interpret this a few different ways I suppose - you'll post does I nice job of explaining what you think (and that's not a shot - thanks).

One is much shorter.

 

[gojetsgo]

If you could call up a player that could help the PK, isn't that important too. Because that's the dagger in both games. I agree you can make PP adjustments, but it's not like Vesalainen isn't a good option too, he's been the better player each game (maturity matters). I am quite steadfast in what I see, a player who isn't NHL ready. Maybe Perfetti can get more ice time, since he just lost the 3rd line position to a better player, at this point, by being the leader of the Moose, playing at a level that isn't above him.

I'd give harkins and vesalainen a chance at the pk, but our pk has looked awful regardless of who is on it right now. I'm hoping it's just them learning a new system but something needs to change

 

[LowLefty]

I can see Mark due to not playing in over a week due to the suspension but Wheeler has looked like that since preseason and imo is a sign that he needs a lesser role to get the most out of him. Conner was skating but didn't have much help as the game went on imo.

I thought Wheeler played a decent game tonight - better than the Duck game and all of preseason - IMO.
But the line was slow - all if it including KC.
Second line was no better
And I'm referring to periods 2 and 3

 

[surixon]

If you could call up a player that could help the PK, isn't that important too. Because that's the dagger in both games. I agree you can make PP adjustments, but it's not like Vesalainen isn't a good option too, he's been the better player each game (maturity matters). I am quite steadfast in what I see, a player who isn't NHL ready. Maybe Perfetti can get more ice time, since he just lost the 3rd line position to a better player, at this point, by being the leader of the Moose, playing at a level that isn't above him.

It doesn't matter who is on the PK our PK is trash. It isn't a player issue as we have rotated how many good physical vets through it over the years Moe has been here? Since he took over this team our PK% is 79.5% which is good enough for 25th overall over that 8 year stretch.

Even this year Moe has doubled down on using vets on his PK and its been awful.

So to me this is 100% a coaching issue

 

[Adam da bomb]

I thought Wheeler played a decent game tonight - better than the Duck game and all of preseason - IMO.
But the line was slow - all if it including KC.
Second line was no better
And I'm referring to periods 2 and 3

Kc in the second passed the puck to a wide open Schief in front of net so was still contributing offensively. Can’t think of a play Wheeler made where I thought wow.

 

[bennylundholm]

I thought Wheeler played a decent game tonight - better than the Duck game and all of preseason - IMO.
But the line was slow - all if it including KC.
Second line was no better
And I'm referring to periods 2 and 3

Wheeler is not nearly the player he was a few seasons ago.
He does just enough to fit in.
Put him with Lowry and Copp as a shutdown lines hi can chip in some offense. Let him use his speed and smarts without the pressure of a top 6 role.

 

[surixon]

Kc in the second passed the puck to a wide open Schief in front of net so was still contributing offensively. Can’t think of a play Wheeler made where I thought wow.

Wheeler hit some holes well in the first and got a couple of good looks as a result but faded after the first like most others.

 

[voyageur]

Calling ves a better player at anything other than physical and grinding is a stretch.

I like the way he plays. Using his frame to create space. I think he can move up the lineup with that game, maybe as high as the 2nd line. The finish isn't there. Right now I'd like to see Vesalainen-Gustafsson-Nash as the 4th line. I think Vesalainen is going to be a good player this year. He looks mature. It's just the one on ones that make me nervous with Perfetti. He's hesitant for one, and not overly implicated. Kind of like a young Ves. It takes time, and no doubt he'll get better. I just think he's not ready for the show yet. We can disagree without an argument, I believe.

 

[voyageur]

It doesn't matter who is on the PK our PK is trash. It isn't a player issue as we have rotated how many good physical vets through it over the years Moe has been here? Since he took over this team our PK% is 79.5% which is good enough for 25th overall over that 8 year stretch.

Even this year Moe has doubled down on using vets on his PK and its been awful.

So to me this is 100% a coaching issue

Maybe we need Beaulieu in the lineup? I am half joking. But you make a good point.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I like the way he plays. Using his frame to create space. I think he can move up the lineup with that game, maybe as high as the 2nd line. The finish isn't there. Right now I'd like to see Vesalainen-Gustafsson-Nash as the 4th line. I think Vesalainen is going to be a good player this year. He looks mature. It's just the one on ones that make me nervous with Perfetti. He's hesitant for one, and not overly implicated. Kind of like a young Ves. It takes time, and no doubt he'll get better. I just think he's not ready for the show yet. We can disagree without an argument, I believe.

What’s this place for other than arguments who is better? I have been extremely disappointed by Ves. Just don’t think he’s very good offensively.

 

[LowLefty]

Pretty simple, not hard to figure out.
Wheeler is by far our highest paid player.
He had more total icetime of any player tonight. He is not producing. He needs to produce more.

I agree -
But he didn't play poorly and that is all I am discussing here -

I think most would agree that Wheeler's salary on the back half of his contract, is not great.
Are we going to call that out every game or just the ones we lose?

 

[WPGChief]

These are my thoughts.

Back to back games of giving up 2 PP goals, something is wrong. Fans lamented guys like Thompson, Lewis and Forbort last year, but hey you don't give up PP goals, you have a chance to win. So for me it starts there on this road trip.

I am not sure why Pionk is on the PK. Every metric, every year has said that he is not good at it, but lo and behold there he was on 2 goals. I think Stanley showed last year he belonged, so with a man in the box there is still no reason to use Pionk in this aspect. That's a peculiar coaching decision.

The PP is not clicking. I didn't like Wheeler out on the flank in Connor's spot, takes away the danger from the one-timers. He should be behind the net, and around the crease, making passes, acoring garbage goals as his speed wanes.

The most obvious thing to point out is how out of place Perfetti looks. He's not hard on the puck, and he is not winning enough battles. He looks unprepared for the big show, when you compare to other young guys that have made it. Right away moving Harkins up the lineup pays dividends. If you went by preseason that's where Harkins belonged. So I hope that change is permanent. I don't expect Perfetti to be in the lineup for Minnesota. And frankly if you want to not play Lowry-Copp until they can't move, maybe call up that Gustafsson kid, who is pretty good at killing penalties, you'd have a legit 2nd unit then.

I am a little concerned with the Brendan Dillon trade to date. He hits, but he looks like an over 30 d-man out there, who much like Forbort does not move the puck well. Going for the big hit gave up the 3-2 goal, and if he wore the name Beaulieu on the back of his sweater, you'd read 7 pages about it. I'd be looking to move big Stan up the lineup soon.

I don't expect slow starts from the Jets, but something looks disjointed. Hellebuyck giving up soft 1st goals is concerning. Wheeler's regression, though overstated, is concerning. Bad penalties are concerning. The defensive zone coverage is concerning. Special teams play is definitely a concern. The sky doesn't fall unless the homestand looks the same as the road trip, but I expect a little more dominance out of this roster. Hopefully it is something that can be had through in team adjustments, because the results are obviously disappointing to date.

The tank and fire Maurice threads are probably nearing their approach

At the moment I agree with all of this except Perfetti. Dude clearly belongs in the NHL (with how he plays as a winger). Maybe not in how Maurice chooses to deploy his lines. Anytime he has the puck on his stick he makes a smart play with it. With time in the NHL will come experience in moving to the more dangerous areas - but that's going to be the exact reason why the Jets will probably move him down to the AHL (and get him into a center position again) when they return from this road trip. He is special, no doubt.

Oh, one other thing I noticed - for all the faults you are seeing with Dillon, you see with Stanley today with his struggles to start the season. If the Jets want to play a much, much faster paced game, that fits Heinola's style better, not Stanley. What people should be more concerned with here is that Pionk hasn't carried the pairing offensively to the degree he has the past two seasons, yet.

 

[LowLefty]

Wheeler is not nearly the player he was a few seasons ago.
He does just enough to fit in.
Put him with Lowry and Copp as a shutdown lines hi can chip in some offense. Let him use his speed and smarts without the pressure of a top 6 role.

Sure - I'm all in

 

[voyageur]

What’s this place for other than arguments who is better? I have been extremely disappointed by Ves. Just don’t think he’s very good offensively.

Fair enough. If we all saw the game the same way, it would be a boring place.

 

[Adam da bomb]

At the moment I agree with all of this except Perfetti. Dude clearly belongs in the NHL (with how he plays as a winger). Maybe not in how Maurice chooses to deploy his lines. Anytime he has the puck on his stick he makes a smart play with it. With time in the NHL will come experience in moving to the more dangerous areas - but that's going to be the exact reason why the Jets will probably move him down to the AHL (and get him into a center position again) when they return from this road trip. He is special, no doubt.

Oh, one other thing I noticed - for all the faults you are seeing with Dillon, you see with Stanley today with his struggles to start the season. If the Jets want to play a much, much faster paced game, that fits Heinola's style better, not Stanley. What people should be more concerned with here is that Pionk hasn't carried the pairing offensively to the degree he has the past two seasons, yet.

Stanley has been fast enough and unlike most of our d is really good at getting his shot through. You can have a hybrid d doesn’t need to all be big or all speedsters.

 

[voyageur]

At the moment I agree with all of this except Perfetti. Dude clearly belongs in the NHL (with how he plays as a winger). Maybe not in how Maurice chooses to deploy his lines. Anytime he has the puck on his stick he makes a smart play with it. With time in the NHL will come experience in moving to the more dangerous areas - but that's going to be the exact reason why the Jets will probably move him down to the AHL (and get him into a center position again) when they return from this road trip. He is special, no doubt.

Oh, one other thing I noticed - for all the faults you are seeing with Dillon, you see with Stanley today with his struggles to start the season. If the Jets want to play a much, much faster paced game, that fits Heinola's style better, not Stanley. What people should be more concerned with here is that Pionk hasn't carried the pairing offensively to the degree he has the past two seasons, yet.

Playing defense has a lot to do with communication in my opinion. I see more gaps early in the year, with Dillon and Pionk than I did with Forbort last year, which isn't saying Forbort is better, but there is a process of learning to play with a different player, especially on defense. Stanley has had some clumsy moments too, but I like his game more than Dillon's to date, especially if you are looking for offensive zone offense. I think there is still some feeling out from the coaching staff as to which pairing to match to which lines. All in all the results 5 on 5 aren't terrible, it's the special teams that are killer, in my opinion.

I don't think Perfetti belongs on this team yet. I am hoping a little more experience in the minors, maybe the odd call up will get him to that point. I think as a team there is maybe a little too much perimeter play, and relying on high shooting % transition goals hasn't come easy, got get them greasy some times. And I have not seen Perfetti attack the high danger areas, but he's not the only one either.