Proposal: Calgary/Los Angeles

[Double Dion]

I think they could have moved Monahan if they wanted to just not for any value. They want to build it up. And if I had to i would move Tkachuk. I do not think he is worth 9-10 Mill. I was pissed they didn't include him for Eichal. If we would get Kopitar this season along with the 3 wingers we could maybe make a push for a cup even.

Fair enough. I agree with your point on Tkachuk to an extent. I just disagree with you that we need Eichel or Kopitar. I'd be looking for a RHS RW personally. Lindholm is way, way better than most people realize. He is a #1 center in every sense for me. I'd be looking to move out 2 of Monahan, Tkachuk and Lucic. Obviously moving Monahan or Lucic you're just hoping to open cap space. I'd move Tkachuk for a lottery pick or equivalent prospect and a top 6 RW making less money.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

this is a joke right???

In what way? If Flames could pull off a trade like that they would be legit contenders:

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Coleman - Kopitar - Mangiapane
Dube - Backlund - Pitlick
Moore - Richardson - Lewis

That would give them 3 very strong defensive centers who can all provide offense. In a Sutter system, combined with a solid defensive group and really strong goalie tandem, and you get a team that will be tough to beat in the playoffs.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Fair enough. I agree with your point on Tkachuk to an extent. I just disagree with you that we need Eichel or Kopitar. I'd be looking for a RHS RW personally. Lindholm is way, way better than most people realize. He is a #1 center in every sense for me. I'd be looking to move out 2 of Monahan, Tkachuk and Lucic. Obviously moving Monahan or Lucic you're just hoping to open cap space. I'd move Tkachuk for a lottery pick or equivalent prospect and a top 6 RW making less money.

Lindholm is crazy underrated. One of the best 2 way centers in the league. I can't think of another center (outside of Matthews) that has a quicker release on his wrist shot.

 

[YP44]

No thanks I'd rather have a proven 30 goal scorer as my third line centre and keep the top 4/possibly top 2 future dman. We're in first place and we didn't sell the farm for Eichel, why would we give up Monahan and Valimaki, let alone any other pieces, for 35 year old Kopitar?

calling Monahan a proven 30 goal scorer is like calling Dustin Brown a proven 20 goal power forward. it is a sell job based on the past not what they are today.

You are right that if Calgary did not go all in for Eichel why would they for Kopitar? However two things 1)sounds like they did put a good amount of players on the table for Eichel, Buffalo just wanted Krebs/Tuch. 2)Eichel was available, Kopitar is not

 

[Dust]

Kopitar seems like a career King to me, can't see them looking or willing to trade him unless he specifically asks for one.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Kopitar needs to shelter the incoming talent for la. Maybe something could be had for Chris tanev. One of las young promising prospects?

Byfield or Turcotte to start any conversation about Tanev. We both know thats not going to happen

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

What about small trade Wolf for Moore and third?

Lmao why dont you go look up who Wolf is real quick

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

In what way? If Flames could pull off a trade like that they would be legit contenders:

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Coleman - Kopitar - Mangiapane
Dube - Backlund - Pitlick
Moore - Richardson - Lewis

That would give them 3 very strong defensive centers who can all provide offense. In a Sutter system, combined with a solid defensive group and really strong goalie tandem, and you get a team that will be tough to beat in the playoffs.

At ~10M for an over 30 selke center Toews is a much better target and wont/shouldn't cost remotely as much to get. Chicago would probably also be more likely to retain on just the 2 years instead of 3.

- Basically same cap hit (could be less)
- Same playstyle
- Same leadership skills
- Same playoff pedigree
- Same compete level
- Probably same likelyness to waive
- Toews should cost way less. To acquire

 

[Big guns]

In what way? If Flames could pull off a trade like that they would be legit contenders:

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Coleman - Kopitar - Mangiapane
Dube - Backlund - Pitlick
Moore - Richardson - Lewis

That would give them 3 very strong defensive centers who can all provide offense. In a Sutter system, combined with a solid defensive group and really strong goalie tandem, and you get a team that will be tough to beat in the playoffs.

not a chance that tre goes after an over thirty ten million dollar player. Not to mention the kings aren’t really looking to trade him to a division rival so they can win a cup and to my mind Kopitar isn’t the guy at all at any time. Good player, not a target unless he suddenly loses ten years.

Matty will get traded at the deadline for a deal similar to the one that got lindholm. Not a chance we go after a plus thirty Center.
Can anyone show a link that this is even a relevant conversation?

 

[FSL KINGS]

not a chance that tre goes after an over thirty ten million dollar player. Not to mention the kings aren’t really looking to trade him to a division rival so they can win a cup and to my mind Kopitar isn’t the guy at all at any time. Good player, not a target unless he suddenly loses ten years.

Matty will get traded at the deadline for a deal similar to the one that got lindholm. Not a chance we go after a plus thirty Center.
Can anyone show a link that this is even a relevant conversation?

Other than Sutter's track record of targeting former players.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

At ~10M for an over 30 selke center Toews is a much better target and wont/shouldn't cost remotely as much to get. Chicago would probably also be more likely to retain on just the 2 years instead of 3.

- Basically same cap hit (could be less)
- Same playstyle
- Same leadership skills
- Same playoff pedigree
- Same compete level
- Probably same likelyness to waive
- Toews should cost way less. To acquire

Toews is a shadow of his former self. Kopitar is significantly better, that's all that matters. All of your other bullets are nonsense, not surprising considering the source.

not a chance that tre goes after an over thirty ten million dollar player. Not to mention the kings aren’t really looking to trade him to a division rival so they can win a cup and to my mind Kopitar isn’t the guy at all at any time. Good player, not a target unless he suddenly loses ten years.

Matty will get traded at the deadline for a deal similar to the one that got lindholm. Not a chance we go after a plus thirty Center.
Can anyone show a link that this is even a relevant conversation?

What do you mean link? Are we not allowed to discuss proposals without an accompanying rumor.

 

[zar]

This is never going to happen.

Monahan is a cap dump and has significant negative value right now. You need to add Wolf to Monahan to get rid of his contract.

So basically it's Valimaki for Kopitar. The majority of Flames fans seem to really be down on Valimaki, but I actually think he will be a very solid 2/3 dman once he has more time to mature (he's in his 3rd season but only played 81 NHL games) ... but there no way Valimaki is landing you a Kopitar.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Toews is a shadow of his former self. Kopitar is significantly better, that's all that matters. All of your other bullets are nonsense, not surprising considering the source.

Toews is still an extremely effective player, calling him a shadow of his former self is incredibly inaccurate. Only think Kopitar has done better this year is score well above expectation. There is a reason Kopitar has 11 EV points and is still -5. If you are so high strung on paying through the roof for Kopitar by all means but Toews has pretty much identical or better underlying numbers this year just hasn't had the puck luck

 

[Big guns]

Toews is a shadow of his former self. Kopitar is significantly better, that's all that matters. All of your other bullets are nonsense, not surprising considering the source.




What do you mean link? Are we not allowed to discuss proposals without an accompanying rumor.

discuss away but if your going to throw crap at the walls it will leave smears.

 

[Big guns]

Other than Sutter's track record of targeting former players.

So when did he become GM?
Can anyone actually give me a reason to expend assets on a plus thirty ten million dollar player who won’t guarantee crap unless it’s hitting your wall and rebuild quicker?

 

[kevsh]

Because he's 34, makes 10M per and they are kind of rebuilding?

The Kings are moving past rebuild mode and clearly want to make the playoffs this year. Unfortunately, I don't see this trade improving their chances.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Toews is still an extremely effective player, calling him a shadow of his former self is incredibly inaccurate. Only think Kopitar has done better this year is score well above expectation. There is a reason Kopitar has 11 EV points and is still -5. If you are so high strung on paying through the roof for Kopitar by all means but Toews has pretty much identical or better underlying numbers this year just hasn't had the puck luck

Toews is -9 and you think Kopitar being -5 is some big gotcha?

Kopitar is a significantly better player. It's not even close. The only reason Kopitar is a -5 is because he plays 21 mins a night on a terrible team.

Meanwhile Monahan is a -5 on a team with the best goal differential in the league.

 

[FSL KINGS]

So when did he become GM?
Can anyone actually give me a reason to expend assets on a plus thirty ten million dollar player who won’t guarantee crap unless it’s hitting your wall and rebuild quicker?

Sutter does crazy stuff. He is not the gm, but will have discussions with the gm on players to target. Remember that Iginla trade to the Kings?

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Toews is -9 and you think Kopitar being -5 is some big gotcha?

Kopitar is a significantly better player. It's not even close. The only reason Kopitar is a -5 is because he plays 21 mins a night on a terrible team.

Meanwhile Monahan is a -5 on a team with the best goal differential in the league.

How does Monahan have any relevance to this conversation? LMAO

Again Kopitar is not a significantly better player and hasn't done anything to prove he is. Toews is also playing on a terrible team, probably even worse than Kopitar's. He doesn't have a Danault to help take the defensive workload off his shoulders, his goalies are playing much worse, and their team had zero structure at all until Coliton was fired. Toews is playing 18 minutes a night in a primarily shutdown role.

Kopitar's production this year is heavily skewed by his first week of the season. he had 8 of his current 17 points in the first 3 games, since then he has 9 points in 15 games. In Toews last 15 games he has only 1 less point.

I am not saying Kopitar is a bad player by any means, in fact I think he is quite good but not worth the cost to acquire. Toews on the other hand is a nearly identical player with only 1 year less of term (things like this are good when we are talking about really expensive mid 30's players), would fit in Sutter's system just as well, and should not cost remotely as much to acquire. Plus Chicago would probably actually be willing to retain on him, unlike LA

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

How does Monahan have any relevance to this conversation? LMAO

Again Kopitar is not a significantly better player and hasn't done anything to prove he is. Toews is also playing on a terrible team, probably even worse than Kopitar's. He doesn't have a Danault to help take the defensive workload off his shoulders, his goalies are playing much worse, and their team had zero structure at all until Coliton was fired. Toews is playing 18 minutes a night in a primarily shutdown role.

Kopitar's production this year is heavily skewed by his first week of the season. he had 8 of his current 17 points in the first 3 games, since then he has 9 points in 15 games. In Toews last 15 games he has only 1 less point.

I am not saying Kopitar is a bad player by any means, in fact I think he is quite good but not worth the cost to acquire. Toews on the other hand is a nearly identical player with only 1 year less of term (things like this are good when we are talking about really expensive mid 30's players), would fit in Sutter's system just as well, and should not cost remotely as much to acquire. Plus Chicago would probably actually be willing to retain on him, unlike LA

You can make all the excuses you want, but Toews just is not in the same league as Kopitar. Lol at you trying to equate them. The Blackhawks are 5-2 in their last 7 but Toews still only has 2 assists and is- 2 in that span.

Kopitar would cost more to acquire because he's a significantly better player. I don't know why you think Kopitar scoring 8 points in 3 games is a bad thing - the fact that he can score as many points in 3 games as Toews has in 19 should tell you something.

The only thing Toews has going for him is that he's a worse player.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

You can make all the excuses you want, but Toews just is not in the same league as Kopitar. Lol at you trying to equate them. The Blackhawks are 5-2 in their last 7 but Toews still only has 2 assists and is- 2 in that span.

Kopitar would cost more to acquire because he's a significantly better player. I don't know why you think Kopitar scoring 8 points in 3 games is a bad thing - the fact that he can score as many points in 3 games as Toews has in 19 should tell you something.

The only thing Toews has going for him is that he's a worse player.

How do you talk so condescending like you know stuff then just spew off this nonsense?

I never called Kopitar's first 3 games a bad thing, I said they heavily skewed his production this season. Toews and Kopitar have nearly identical production since then. Hell if you want to go down to the last 7 games like you did for Toews, Kopitar has 1 goal, 2 assists (only 1 at EV), and is -5.

What makes Kopitar a significantly better player? Not his production, not his 5v5 play, not his PK, not his face off abilities, not his skating, not his positional awareness, not his leadership, not his advanced stats. Please tell me because all you are doing is making a claim and failing to back it up. 1 year of term on an older player (albeit 1 year older) does not justify a player being significantly better. You are trying to justify buying high on a player who overachieved in the first week of the season and has since come back down to normal. Whereas I am saying Toews, a nearly identical player in terms of both skill and leadership, would be a way better target.

 

[YP44]

How do you talk so condescending like you know stuff then just spew off this nonsense?

I never called Kopitar's first 3 games a bad thing, I said they heavily skewed his production this season. Toews and Kopitar have nearly identical production since then. Hell if you want to go down to the last 7 games like you did for Toews, Kopitar has 1 goal, 2 assists (only 1 at EV), and is -5.

What makes Kopitar a significantly better player? Not his production, not his 5v5 play, not his PK, not his face off abilities, not his skating, not his positional awareness, not his leadership, not his advanced stats. Please tell me because all you are doing is making a claim and failing to back it up. 1 year of term on an older player (albeit 1 year older) does not justify a player being significantly better. You are trying to justify buying high on a player who overachieved in the first week of the season and has since come back down to normal. Whereas I am saying Toews, a nearly identical player in terms of both skill and leadership, would be a way better target.

In short are your saying, if acquisition price and contract were the same Kopitar=Toews, however given acquisition cost and contract length Toews>Kopitar?

I am a Kings homer so not going to weigh in on first half of the above, but I understand the thinking in the second half.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

In short are your saying, if acquisition price and contract were the same Kopitar=Toews, however given acquisition cost and contract length Toews>Kopitar?

I am a Kings homer so not going to weigh in on first half of the above, but I understand the thinking in the second half.

Like there is no debating that Kopitar is still a very capable 2-way center, but to simply dismiss Toews as being inferior even though his results from the current year are for the most part quite similar is just asinine. Toews is still a very good 2-way center as well and is not far removed at all from having 2 of his career best years and embarrassing McDrai in the bubble. To ignore that because he took a (shortened) year off for covid related health concerns makes no sense to me. I consider them both to be nearly identical players but think Toews would be less expensive to acquire and works for us better cap wise in 2 years.

The dumbest part of this whole argument is I was just trying to offer an alternative option but because Whiskey hates me for every time I prove him wrong he decided to start a pointless argument

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

How do you talk so condescending like you know stuff then just spew off this nonsense?

I never called Kopitar's first 3 games a bad thing, I said they heavily skewed his production this season. Toews and Kopitar have nearly identical production since then. Hell if you want to go down to the last 7 games like you did for Toews, Kopitar has 1 goal, 2 assists (only 1 at EV), and is -5.

I bring up the last 7 games because you blamed Toews' lack of production on Colliton. Yet somehow he's still not producing.

What makes Kopitar a significantly better player? Not his production, not his 5v5 play, not his PK, not his face off abilities, not his skating, not his positional awareness, not his leadership, not his advanced stats. Please tell me because all you are doing is making a claim and failing to back it up. 1 year of term on an older player (albeit 1 year older) does not justify a player being significantly better. You are trying to justify buying high on a player who overachieved in the first week of the season and has since come back down to normal. Whereas I am saying Toews, a nearly identical player in terms of both skill and leadership, would be a way better target.

It actually is his production. He's leading his team in scoring at nearly double Toew's rate. And he had 50p in 56 games last year, so it's not like his 17p in 18 games this year is outside of his expected range.

Also Toews has been getting owned at 5v5 the last few years; this year he's at 42% xGF. He's only had 1 year >50% xGF% in his last 6 years. Its actually hilarious that you bring up his 5v5 play and advanced stats as a strength - it really just shows how terrible your judgment is. Kopitar has been better in each of the last 3 years, and is currently at 50% xGF.

So yeah Kopitar is the significantly better player. Better scorer, better 5v5 player, and better advanced stats.

 

[Kurrilino]

No thanks I'd rather have a proven 30 goal scorer as my third line centre and keep the top 4/possibly top 2 future dman. We're in first place and we didn't sell the farm for Eichel, why would we give up Monahan and Valimaki, let alone any other pieces, for 35 year old Kopitar?

I guess people want to win the cup ??