C William Nylander (2014, 8th, TOR) VI

[Mats13]

You didn't listen close enough. Mckenzie cautioned about judging too early on Nylander's play on split squad games, where he referred to them as scrimmages when Feschuck said he has looked great in the preseason. Obviously this means one thing. Anyone with an unbiased eye would have said Nylander was good in the preseason, but he was not great. Great enough to as Shanahan put it force the Leafs to put them in the NHL and their line up.

Now before someone says Nylander was always going back to the AHL as it was predetermined. I think some of us thought Harrington was. But he stuck. So Leafs needed a player(Nylander) to knock the door down. He is where he belongs to start this season.

You're actually going to deny it now? He said nothing about Nylander not being ready. You are making things up.

 

[Shwaguy*]

It's not hard at all to listen what Bob Mckenzie said in the interview. All it took was listening to what was said, instead of hearing what one wanted to hear.

And that was Split squad games are not real preseason games, they are more like scrimmages according to Mckenzie. Mckenzie cautioned Feschuck from jumping to too many early conclusions.

BTW I was responding to the poster that said Nylander should be in the NHL straight out of camp. Not sure why the defence mechanism in the 2 last posts with what I posted.

But that doesn't mean he said Nylander wasn't NHL ready. I'm not gonna get into this any further than that..

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You're actually going to deny it now? He said nothing about Nylander not being ready. You are making things up.

The Leafs determined that he was not ready. Regardless Mckenzie made an astute observation to Feschuck about being careful to judge a player too soon on spiit squad games.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Bob Mckenzie said it best in this interview. Nylander was not ready, and the Leafs were not prepared to throw him to the wolves.



https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015/09/24/bob-mckenzie-william-nylander-destined-for-the-ahl/

You're reading something that's not actually there

 

[HarrisonFord]

The Leafs determined that he was not ready. Regardless Mckenzie made an astute observation to Feschuck about being careful to judge a player too soon on spiit squad games.

The Leafs determined they weren't going to put him in the lineup, whether he was ready or not.

 

[Mats13]

The Leafs determined that he was not ready. Regardless Mckenzie made an astute observation to Feschuck about being careful to judge a player too soon on spiit squad games.

I encourage you to listen to the Dubas interview, so that you can stop spreading false information.

Here's the link: https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015...-is-among-the-best-ive-ever-seen-in-a-player/

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I encourage you to listen to the Dubas interview, so that you can stop spreading false information.

Here's the link: https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015...-is-among-the-best-ive-ever-seen-in-a-player/

Shanahan outranks Dubas. And really I would ask you to stop with this misleading information accusation since I have produced links that included radio clips backing up everything I have posted.

The Leafs determined they weren't going to put him in the lineup, whether he was ready or not.

I didn't read this. Do you have definitive proof Shanahan said this?

We know Shanahan said any player, specifically a rookie could earn a spot at training camp when he was asked this question. This included Nylander if he was ready.

Question:



Shanahan's answer:

 

[HarrisonFord]

I didn't read this. Do you have definitive proof Shanahan said this?

We know Shanahan said any player could earn a spot at training camp. This included Nylander if he was ready.

So, by your logic, Nylander is a worse hockey player right now than Byron Froese?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

So, by your logic, Nylander is a worse hockey player right now than Byron Froese?

Let's not sidetrack this thread with non related things that no one said or even discussed. Shanahan's tweet was self explanatory though.

 

[Captain Clutch]

So, by your logic, Nylander is a worse hockey player right now than Byron Froese?

I think the hurdle for Nylander is that he needs to be better than someone who is currently in the top 6. There could be no point in playing him 4th line minutes in a purely defensive role.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think the hurdle for Nylander is that he needs to be better than someone who is currently in the top 6. There could be no point in playing him 4th line minutes in a purely defensive role.

This makes sense, thanks for making this point. I don't think that will take much longer. That was sort of the point of what Mckenzie was alluding to wasn't it? Not sure what the fuss was about?

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Let's not sidetrack this thread with non related things that no one said or discussed. Shanahan's tweet was self explanatory though.

Said behind closed doors:

"We are going to fill the team with stop-gap and filler players in order to prevent our young prospects from being apart of the growing pains that will be endured with our new regime"

"Until a safe environment is in place that will promote development, we would like our core prospects develop in the minors, juniors."

If he were to say that to the media, it would crumble the team.
What is said/meant/implemented can be totally different things.

 

[The Beyonder]

I think the hurdle for Nylander is that he needs to be better than someone who is currently in the top 6. There could be no point in playing him 4th line minutes in a purely defensive role.

Nylander outplayed every centre in training camp other than Kadri. He and Brown were tops in preseason when it came to possession numbers (can't find the tweet). I'm not saying Nylander is not without his worts, but it's obvious to anyone who watched the camp that he was one of the best forwards not named Kadri and JVR.

I find that from the things that the brass have said, they want their prospects to come in overripe. They are not taking the quick approach with their prospects. Nylander certainly has things to improve, but it's obvious that he also outplayed the majority of his teammates, along with Connor Brown.

Also, Kyle Dubas talked about how they see Nylander playing centre on the Marlies before training camp even started.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Let's not sidetrack this thread with non related things that no one said or even discussed. Shanahan's tweet was self explanatory though.

I think the hurdle for Nylander is that he needs to be better than someone who is currently in the top 6. There could be no point in playing him 4th line minutes in a purely defensive role.

CC's argument has more traction. Though I think it is also relevant to take into consideration a number of other factors - specifically the state of the team, and what the team intends to do with all of their 1 year contracts (Grabner, Matthias, Spaling, PAP, Boyes). Those are assets that are being intentionally showcased with the intention of getting a draft pick in return for trading them.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Said behind closed doors:

"We are going to fill the team with stop-gap and filler players in order to prevent our young prospects from being apart of the growing pains that will be endured with our new regime"

"Until a safe environment is in place that will promote development, we would like our core prospects develop in the minors, juniors."

If he were to say that to the media, it would crumble the team.
What is said/meant/implemented can be totally different things.

I believe Shanahan's quote was sincere. He was challenging players(Nylander, Marner, or Boyes for that matter) that if you wanted to make the team, you were going to have to force the door down. None of the prospects did with the exception of Harrington. Harrington making the team should be proof it was possible for others on the Marlies team that they can if they force their way into the Leafs line up. This is a young man's game now, we see it all over the league. Young players coming in and making an impact. If a player shows they are ready, they will be up here. I have no doubt about it. I expect Nylander to be up with the team before the year is up. He was not ready after training camp, BUT it does not mean he will not be ready by the end of this season.

 

[KGL]

Shanahan outranks Dubas. And really I would ask you to stop with this misleading information accusation since I have produced links that included radio clips backing up everything I have posted.



I didn't read this. Do you have definitive proof Shanahan said this?

We know Shanahan said any player could earn a spot at training camp. This included Nylander if he was ready.

Shanny outranking Dubas means nothing. Dubas said Nylander would be the top line centre for the Marlies before training camp started, it was a foregone conclusion he'd not be on the Leafs. Just because Shanny didn't state this himself means absolutely nothing. As for his tweet, of course Shanny would say that, he's not going to come right out and say "You have no chance William, don't even bother trying". Stop ignoring facts in order to advance your agenda.

 

[The Beyonder]

I believe Shanahan's quote was sincere. He was challenging players(Nylander, Marner, or Boyes for that matter) that if you wanted to make the team, you were going to have to force the door down. None of the prospects did with the exception of Harrington. Harrington making the team should be proof it was possible for others on the Marlies team that they can if they force their way into the Leafs line up. This is a young man's game now, we see it all over the league. Young players coming in and making an impact. If a player shows they are ready, they will be up here. I have no doubt about it. I expect Nylander to be up with the team before the year is up. He was not ready after training camp, BUT it does not mean he will not be ready by the end of this season.

Shanny outranking Dubas means nothing. Dubas said Nylander would be the top line centre for the Marlies before training camp started, it was a foregone conclusion he'd not be on the Leafs. Just because Shanny didn't state this himself means absolutely nothing. As for his tweet, of course Shanny would say that, he's not going to come right out and say "You have no chance William, don't even bother trying". Stop ignoring facts in order to advance your agenda.

No Management group would say that the odds are stacked against you, that they have a development plan specifically for you, that you'll have to do more than just play better than your teammates and win a job from another; that you'd have to be lights-out better than your teammates.

He earned a spot, but at the same time, he has things to improve upon, and it's better to develop on a winning Marlies team in a good league rather than on this abysmal Leafs team; even despite the fact that he was better than the vast majority of leaf forwards.


To me, I think when it comes to Nylander for the leafs, it's not whether he's ready; it's how good he can be when he's here. They want to take their time with him and develop him in a winning atmosphere.

EDIT: Also, the harrington comparison isn't right. Harrington is bad comparison. Harrington is 22 years old, he also has spent 1.5 seasons in the AHL. They think that for his play, he is further along in his development to graduate to what they think he can be in the NHL, 5-6 d-man. Nylander is a 19 years old, and despite out playing his competition, they believe there are things he needs to do to round out his game, like any young forward in any professional league; but they feel that development would be better spent on the marlies. If Nylander was 22 years old and played 1.5 season in the AHL and played like he did in this camp, he would already be on this team.

 

[Mad Brills*]

http://www.tsn.ca/nylander-wants-to-play-for-leafs-this-season-1.392128

 

[Menzinger]

"Ready" is subjective - seems they want the kid to slide into the Leafs top six with a well rounded two way game. They don't want him to have to learn to play defense in the NHL.

Not to mention I'm certain he won't see any Icetime with the Leafs. As people like Mirtle have speculated management likely has little desire to burn a valuable ELC year on a wasted Leafs season not that they'd ever admit this publicly).

 

[Coaches Coroner]

'Round and 'round and 'round we go.

 

[Semantics]

Let's not sidetrack this thread with non related things that no one said or even discussed. Shanahan's tweet was self explanatory though.

Sidetrack? It's *completely* relevant here, because it exposes your argument as being logically inconsistent. You can't have it both ways and apply Shanny's comment, which was about all players, selectively to one player and not another. Try growing a pair and stand behind what you said for once.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Shanny outranking Dubas means nothing. Dubas said Nylander would be the top line centre for the Marlies before training camp started, it was a foregone conclusion he'd not be on the Leafs. Just because Shanny didn't state this himself means absolutely nothing. As for his tweet, of course Shanny would say that, he's not going to come right out and say "You have no chance William, don't even bother trying". Stop ignoring facts in order to advance your agenda.

An Assistant GM that says they intend to play Nylander at Center in the AHL in the summer, does not have anything to do with the President of the Team saying any player can make this team if they force their way into the line up if their play merits this. There are surprises each camp, players make the team when they are slated to go back to junior or the minors. Nylander is not exempt of this. The Leafs sent him down because he needed to work on his game. Did Dubas whom you cited in your post just not say they want Nylander to master the AHL before moving to the NHL? If this is so, they obviously think he is not ready for the NHL. He still needs to master the AHL.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

This is the Main Board, not the Leafs board. Just a FYI.

I'll keep my comments about Nylander.

Dubas says Nylander must master the AHL before moving to the NHL for good.

Shanahan says a player has to force his way onto the Leafs roster.

Nylander is learning in the AHL because the Leafs did not think he was ready off of camp and preseason. He will be soon, but not right now.

 

[KGL]

This is the Main Board, not the Leafs board. Just a FYI.

I'll keep my comments about Nylander.

Dubas says Nylander must master the AHL before moving to the NHL for good.

Shanahan says a player has to force his way onto the Leafs roster.

Nylander is learning in the AHL because the Leafs did not think he was ready off of camp and preseason. He will be soon, but not right now.

Go ahead and keep your comments about Nylander, you're still wrong.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Go ahead and keep your comments about Nylander, you're still wrong.

Wrong about what exactly? I am speaking impartially here, not from a Leafs fans perspective. I have no dog in whether Nylander plays in the NHL or not.

Dubas said a day ago, Nylander must master the AHL first before moving to the NHL.

Clearly this tells us, where the Leafs see Nylander at the moment and what we were discussing after training camp.

Dubas on Nylander:

“I think he [needs to] continue to sustain the way he’s played the last week or two on both sides of the puck — his offensive abilities have always been there — and now he’s really starting to become consistent,” Dubas explained. “If he continues to do that consistently he’ll start to force the hand of the team.