C William Nylander (2014, 8th, TOR) V [Mod warning in OP]
- Thread starter JawandaPuck
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If they wanted to win this year and needed cheap young top 9 talent and didn't care about his development he would be on the team, as would Brown. Nylander was arguably the 3rd best forward in Leafs camp, and both of them had many of the staunchest "send them down no matter what" fans converted and convinced that both (but especially Nylander) had forced their way in.
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that "playing well enough" wasn't based on beating out other players in camp, it was based on Babcock's expectations for Nylander as a top-6 centre moving forward.
gifted88
Dante the poet
Saying a blanket statement that any player not making their respective team is not ready for the NHL is a crazy thing to say. There are so many different factors involved like development philosophy, the team roster, coaches personal feelings, player styles...etc. If a team is stacked at one position it would be hard for an NHL ready prospect to make that team. Or if a player is an offense first type player it wouldn't make sense to play them in a checking role. Maybe the coach doesn't like the player. Maybe it's a team like Detroit and only exceptional talent could make the team. Just too many factors to say with 100% certainty that player X isn't ready.
I heard a lot of talk about Provorov being an NHL ready Dman during the draft and after it. I guess all those experts were wrong then cause he failed to make the Flyers.
MastuhNinks
Registered User
To add to your point, Babcock has said numerous times it's not about whether or not prospects are capable of playing in the NHL, it's about if they can contribute in a significant way.
hamzarocks
Registered User
did you watch any of the leafs games, even one. Nylander was our best forward for 3 games and top 3 in another one. Seriously he was not a liability at all defensively, he was not being hemmed in his zone, he was playing strong on the boards and won most of his battles on the board. He is an nhl player right now, he is nhl ready, but the team wants to follow wings model and let players get a couple of pro seasons in the ahl. The chl would have not done anything for his game, he is better than majority of the players down their, and is better than plenty of ahlers as well. He is nhl ready, but lou is taking our team slowly. He even said something along the lines of 'The kids will be up before you no it, and dont be glum' to our fans. Nylander was one of the best rookies in the preseason ainec he was up their with the larkins, ehlers, drai(another nhl ready guy who got sent down), reinhart, bennett
Mike Babcock disagrees with your opinion of mike babcocks coaching
Hopefully he plays well enough to take someone's job next year.
hamzarocks
Registered User
than how can you say he was a liabilty on defense, i can see you saying that he was giving less effort 100 percent of the time on defense than o, but he was not a liabilty and was able to win most battles. He would literally steal and swipe pucks from opposing players 3 or 4 times a game, but after that yes he would cool down his pressure, still not a liability or anything, but less engaged. That is something a player can improve in the nhl, as the games go along, he was great offensively, very good in middle ice and making passes, and solid defensively, at times he had elite instincts and stole pucks which resulted into chances, while others he let the puck move around and letting other players try to fight for it. He can still improve his d-game but its solid right now, and he as a whole is an nhl player this year, tbh he could have played last year as well.
Nithoniniel
Registered User
Minute-by-minute, Nylander was one of our better forwards this preseason. However, it was very clear that demands would be high and the chance was small.
Demands: They don't want to bring up Nylander just because he can do better than Arcobello in a general sense, they want to bring him up when he is good enough to be put in a position that is as good as possible for his development. That means an overall good enough game to be relied upon by Babcock in a important center role. While he was one of our best in transition and in the offensive zone, they seem to want more out of him defensively.
Chance: He was given a few games with 12-13 minutes of ice time with rather weak wingers. Of course that is still a chance, but it was clear that he would have to force his way in from way out in the cold to make the team. From what I saw of any of the other top prospects in camps, nobody else was given such a small chance. It was a similar situation with pretty much any Leafs prospect.
Demands: They don't want to bring up Nylander just because he can do better than Arcobello in a general sense, they want to bring him up when he is good enough to be put in a position that is as good as possible for his development. That means an overall good enough game to be relied upon by Babcock in a important center role. While he was one of our best in transition and in the offensive zone, they seem to want more out of him defensively.
Chance: He was given a few games with 12-13 minutes of ice time with rather weak wingers. Of course that is still a chance, but it was clear that he would have to force his way in from way out in the cold to make the team. From what I saw of any of the other top prospects in camps, nobody else was given such a small chance. It was a similar situation with pretty much any Leafs prospect.
Say What
Building a Legacy 4/28/96 Never again!!
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I have no horse in this race......but it sounds like Leaf's Nation is stating that even McDavid or Eichel would have been playing for the Marlies this year. Just not true. Ready is ready!!
For what it's worth, Nylander is extremely talented. But like Justin Trudeau....Just not ready.
For what it's worth, Nylander is extremely talented. But like Justin Trudeau....Just not ready.
I have no horse in this race......but it sounds like Leaf's Nation is stating that even McDavid or Eichel would have been playing for the Marlies this year. Just not true. Ready is ready!!
For what it's worth, Nylander is extremely talented. But like Justin Trudeau....Just not ready.
So you don't think that McDavid or Eichel are ready to be impact top-6 centres?
You do?
Is the problem your reading comprehension or just that you're trying to stir **** up?
I have no horse in this race......but it sounds like Leaf's Nation is stating that even McDavid or Eichel would have been playing for the Marlies this year. Just not true. Ready is ready!!
For what it's worth, Nylander is extremely talented. But like Justin Trudeau....Just not ready.
What I don't get is why would Ehlers be considered ready but Nylander not when Nylander looked better?
If he was the third best forward he would be on the team. Full stop. He may have been the third best 'offensive' forward but there is no way that he was the third best overall. If that was the case he'd be on the team because you make room for guys like that. He would, in your own words, be a top 6 impact player right now. I would bet money if you asked Babcock there is no way he'd agree that he was the third best overall player.
Still a great prospect, I just think some of the hype about him got out of hand amongst Leaf fans. He clearly still has things that he needs to improve.
It's apparently reaaallyy hard to grasp that
being ready to ride shotgun in a deep and talented top 9 as a winger
and
being ready be the best player and drive your line as a top 6-c
are different things.
Say What
Building a Legacy 4/28/96 Never again!!
- Jan 18, 2015
- 817
- 78
See, that's my point. If Nylander was ready to be an impact top six center, he would've made your team. Hence, he's just not ready. Why are Leaf's fans arguing that he is ready, but management wants to over-ripen him? That's ridiculous.
You were saying something about reading comprehension?
Players like Kuznetsov, Tarasenko, Gaudreau etc didn't even play till they were 21+. Leafs are doing the right thing with Nylander. No point having him in the line up with castaways trying to grind out wins in a season where we obviously set out to pick as high as we can.
I don't get the logic either. He was apparently, at worst, the third best player at camp (and by some posters the best forward) but still not ready for a top 6 role. I doubt that Babcock would agree with that nor would Leaf management.
No. Because league wide, being the 3rd best forward on the leafs does not make one legitimate impact top 6 player.
Boyes-Bozak-Matthias-PAP-Arcobello-Holland-Spaling-Winnik
Being better than that list is not the threshold for being a top-6 player.
OK, I think I've got you.
You're saying he had a high hurdle to meet , not that the Leafs wouldn't have opened up a spot for him if he was ready.
I agree with the bolded. That was the threshold, not "nhl ready" not "top 9 nhl forward"
"impact top six centre on a Babcock team," bottom line.
He's nhl ready. He's not Babcock team top 6 c ready. there's a difference.
Nithoniniel
Registered User
I think this is fair. And I just didn't like his defensive game as much as many other Leafs fans either.
He could absolutely do a good job as a top 9 winger right now, especially in a sheltered role. Doesn't seem like that's how they want to develop him though, and I sympathize with that.
