C/W Gabe Perreault - Boston College, NCAA (2023, 23rd, NYR)
- Thread starter montreal
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Lavar Ball
Neva Lost
Synergy27
F-A-C-G-C-E
I mean this with all sincerity. Is it possible for the player with the most points on the line to be the passenger on the line? I just don’t follow that logic.
I can understand why some people project Leonard to be a better pro than GP. But there is no way to slice this past season such that Leonard wasn’t the passenger on that line.
MichaelFarrell
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Leonard has better tools than Perreault and that’s what makes him a better prospect. You don’t need to put down any player to show that Gabe Perreault is a great hockey player. Perreault’s hockey sense is great and his chemistry with Will Smith was beautiful to watch.
I do agree that Perreault was not a passenger on that line. There was absolutely no passenger on that line. That line for the USNTDP was one of the best lines in junior hockey of all time. I’m not saying they are the best players to come out of the program, but it was a perfectly constructed line.
Perreault had a lot of success without either Leonard and Smith (when they were away trying out for the U20 team). His talent is undeniable. I love this player and I love Leonard.
Synergy27
F-A-C-G-C-E
I wasn’t trying to put down Leonard just to be clear. I just don’t understand how people can say that the kid with the most points was a passenger on the line. It just doesn’t make sense.
Doug Prishpreed
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Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
The whole thing comes down to that NHL teams are risk averse. Leonard is a bet on taking the guy you know will play games and be a help to an NHL roster. Perreault doesn’t have a role if his offensive game doesn’t work against NHL competition. This is the difference between public vs. private lists. When your job matters based on it, you make the safer bet almost every time. I’d love to say I’d do differently, but until any of us are in that position, it’s all conjecture.
The Crypto Guy
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Wheelers list is his top prospect list of players under 23, not a list of just this past draft. Him being at 15 on his top prospect list is massive praise.
yea, it's entirely possible. i'm not saying what he will or won't be, just listing a pretty widely shared concern about a reality that has always existed with juniors superlines. the reason he was pegged as the highest risk of the trio has nothing to do with what he did last season and everything to do with projecting how he translates. he's more cerebral and has questions about strength/skating...personally i think the skating questions are overblown but that's neither here nor there. leonard and smith are more known quantities, leonard is going to be a menace on the forecheck, physical, and is a goalscorer who goes to the hard areas. he projects as something nhl teams covet. perrault is a guy who has high end upside, but his floor is much lower than leonard. i love the pick, great value and upside, but that doesn't mean there isn't a real possibility it doesn't work out.
Fantomas
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Being risk averse is also risky
There are some similarities, though also some pretty big differences IMO. Reinhart is quite a bit bigger than both, better defensively, and is a wing/centre vs. a pure wing. Reinhart's also more of a classic "fundamentally sound" guy, kind of a boring but very solid game, while I've seen a bit more flash in Maccelli and Perreault's games, can make some pretty creative/tricky passes especially.
I wonder, how often do NHL scouts get it right vs. wrong in the draft, with forwards who were linemates? e.g. 2+ forwards, who are in the same draft, were linemates in their draft year (on their main team, not just WJC linemates or something), player A goes above player B in the draft, but player B ends up better.
I think they mostly get it right - MacKinnon over Drouin, Horvat over Domi and McDavid over Strome spring to mind. But they get it wrong sometimes too, for example Milano over Tuch. Wonder how often they get it wrong vs. right - would be an interesting stat!
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Peasy
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I've really enjoyed following the 2019 USNTDP guys a lot because of this.
In the end, Turcotte is looking like the odd man out (big reason because of injuries), but all of Hughes, Zegras, Boldy and Caufield have been hits and cant really complain with what youre getting where you got them.
USNTDP is kinda the only team that can really have this type of situation. Every other league your best players are typically spread out among teams.
Lavar Ball
Neva Lost
This is some confucius level shit right here. Very true
Yeah, do you remember which ones player on the same lines, though? I believe Hughes/Caufield mostly played together, but I seem to remember Zegras and Turcotte centering different lines, and Boldy bouncing around between Zegras' and Turcotte's lines? Memory fades fast though!
If so, in terms of linemate draft order, I'd say scouts got Hughes over Caufield right, Turcotte over Boldy wrong, and Zegras over Boldy is arguable.
Peasy
Registered User
Yeah, Caufield and Hughes were pretty much glued together the entire year. I think Zegras moved around the most, playing both wing and center, sometimes with Hughes/Caufield and sometimes with Turcotte or centering a line on his own. By the end of the year I remember Boldy/Hughes/Caufield playing a lot together, especially at the U18s but I could be misremembering.
Basically the 3 that played C went first, and then you had a toss up between Boldy and Caufield, and like most gms do, they went with the guy that has more size and safer projectability first.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
Hughes and Caufield almost always on the same line. Zegras sometimes with Hughes and Caufield and sometimes on his own line. Turcotte and Boldy almost always on their own lines. It was a very different alignment. The coach tried to build at least 3 good lines and sometimes 4.
So really, Hughes and Caufield were the line-mates guys, and they’ve both ended up good. Zegras sometimes too with them, but he’s also ended up good. None of them were products of each other. Boldy has panned out, but he didn’t really have any consistent line-mates to be a product of. Turcotte not yet due to Kings and injuries, but he also didn’t have any line-mates to be a product of.
So there wasn’t any of that with the team. Not sure any of the 2023 NTDP first line will be a product of each other either. They’ll likely just be varying levels of NHL players. Remember, none of these guys were unheralded nobodies coming into the NTDP. They all were regarded as among the best American born 2005’s. I think this is a much bigger issue with non-NTDP teams where it’s not a group of all-star talents, and one guy pops up unexpectedly with high totals.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
A left handed version of what current Panarin is.
I think to neutral fans that sounds incredible, but to Rangers fans that is a little less exciting. But look, that’s a great player. You take that any day of the week, as long as that guy isn’t anywhere near the second highest paid cap hit in the league.
And we all thought Lafreniere and Kakko could become so much greater than they have so far. There are definitely some obstacles to Perreault hitting his ceiling, but if he does, it’s very high.
montreal
Go Habs Go
The Crypto Guy
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How did he look today? I'm at work and can't watch a 17 minute video unfortunately.
montreal
Go Habs Go
I didn't pay too much attention to him, he was ok, USA was mostly terrible but their line was perhaps the best.
The Crypto Guy
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Petes2424
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It used to happen much more than it does today. There’s just so much tape now. The biggest problem for scouts, evaluators, and managers today, that has always been a big problem?
Natural Wingers. Especially from Europe. Especially skilled European wingers, who’ve played on the wing their entire competitive career.
They’re the biggest chance of being a bust. Not because they’re not very skilled, but because the NHL is very, very unique, compared to every other league in the world, but especially European Leagues…. In NA, we don’t have the problem as much, because in Minor hockey we tend to put our most skilled players at C, and we teach a much more “1 on 1” game here.
There’s literally NO Space in the NHL… It doesn’t exist. Inside or outside.
The game is played differently in Europe. Much more system oriented. Everything is forced outside, so the systems allow alot of open ice (space) on the outside. Very skilled wingers, make their living in this space. A lot of European leagues will put their most skilled players on the outside.
The NHL is a much more “One on One” skilled game. There is no space in the NHL. Inside or outside. The players are just too good.
A player has to be able to create their own space. It’s really not a skill you can practice either. It’s not just about speed. It’s the ability to know when to slow down, peel off opponents, etc. Its a natural “FEEL” for the game and usually learned after years of playing competitively in traffic.
It’s why we have so many NHL Wingers, who used to be Cs too. Especially Europeans. Almost all skilled, Top 6 European wingers in the NHL, used to be Cs…. Except some Swedes recently, and there’s a reason for that.
About 10-12 years ago, Sweden’s National Program, changed some things, on how they want players developed. They’ve turned away from systems training, and changed to more “1 on 1” type training programs. It has helped a lot. Russians, Czechs, Finns, an Slovaks have the issue much more than Swedes. At least lately…
It’s also why the most “busts” in the NHL are very skilled “Natural” wingers. Yakupov, Zadina, etc.
The biggest problem for scouts is, you just don’t know if they can do it, until they play in an NHL game. They can score 50 goals in the SHL, Juniors, AHL, KHL, etc, and it doesn’t matter. You’ll never know until they put on an NHL jersey.
They’ve never had to create their own space. So when they get to the NHL, they’re lost. They try to out skate dmen, or go further outside, etc, etc. They get frustrated really easy too. Playing wing in the NHL, is like an entirely new position for them.
Its why many teams won’t even draft a natural winger, unless they’re a power type of player. Like Barlow for example in the 2023 draft. Outside, skilled wingers, who’ve never played C?? Many teams won’t draft one. No matter how skilled. Some won’t take one until later in the draft… Becaue if they do hit, it’s great.
More often, they’ll draft wingers who converted from C in Juniors, etc, but not players like Zadina, Yakupov, etc, who were always a wing.
So when you see a very skilled winger drop during a draft, this is usually why. Teams are scared they will be a bust. That they will never be able to create that space.
By far the hardest thing to judge.. other than goaltenders….
