C Tyler Seguin (2010, 2nd overall, Boston; traded to Dallas)

[King Mapes]

But as far as Hall is concerned his entire junior career was basically adversity-free. He always had either one of the best or the best team in the CHL around him.

Thats true. Last year could have been the best CHL team ever, it'd be hard not to win. Also, how often does a team win back-to-back memorial Cups? Has anyone?

 

[Russian Warrior]

LOL @ all the Leafs fans saying he's not ready...

 

[awesomo]

There were rumors that if the Oilers drafted him, they may have sent him back down.

 

[17Kurri]

I'm glad the Oil picked Hall, but Seguin's a damn good player. I would not bet against him cracking the Bruins' lineup this season, especially if he's lined up on the wing.

 

[Wheatking]

McGuire is absolutely right and it's obvious that some of you never watched Seguin in the OHL.

I've watched plenty of Seguin's games and I think he's ready.

-Never played the PK

Why would he? Plymouth had a great PK and that was without him on it. How would their powerplay look without him? He was by far their best offensive threat and they had plenty of defensively reliable players. It only made sense that they save him for offensive situations. It's a coach playing to the team's strength and weaknesses.

-Never played a checking role against other teams top lines

Against Taylor Hall in the playoffs their lines would go head to head when the games were in Plymouth. Boughner was constantly trying to get Hall's line away from Seguin. Despite having a goal and an assist in game 2, I'd say it was hands down the worst overall game I had ever seen from Hall and it was in large part because of Seguin.

-Was benched for floating and not coming back into his own zone

He's been benched once in his entire career. In Oil Change he talked about how it made him more committed to the defensive side of the game.

-Got 2/3rds of his points at home when his coach matched him up against the other teams weaker players

That's to be expected.

Seguin
Total: 106 points
Home: 66 points(62%)
Away: 40 point(38%)

Hall
Total: 106 points
Home: 62 points(59%)
Away: 44(41%)

Both played 30 home games. There really isn't that much difference.

-Was completely shutdown by the stronger defenders in the OHL

Tyler Seguin
Total: 48 goals and 106 points
Playoff Teams: 33 goals and 80 points
Top 4 Seeded Teams: 15 goals and 35 points
Bottom 4 Seeded Teams: 18 goals and 45 points
The 4 Non-Playoff Teams: 15 goals and 26 points

Taylor Hall
Total: 40 goals and 106 points
Playoff Teams: 29 goals and 82 points
Top 4 Seeded Teams: 13 goals and 37 points
Bottom 4 Seeded Teams: 16 goals and 45 points
The 4 Non-Playoff Teams: 11 goals and 24 points

They're basically identical.

-Played the last 6mins of the final game to tie Hall in points(Plymouth pulled their goalie so Seguin could tie Hall)

I'm not entirely sure how that makes him not ready for the NHL.

Seguin COULD play in the NHL next season but IMO he needs to seriously develop his two way game. He needs time on the PK and playing against the other teams top lines. He doesn't need another year of point stacking.

I don't get this. Even when Seguin didn't deliver offensively, you were almost guaranteed a great defensive game. Datsyuk is the only guy I can think of that is able to strip players of the puck and maintain possession so easily. Playing on the PK doesn't make you a good defensive player. He's way better than Hall in his own end...and Hall's not bad. Of all the things to single out in Seguin's game I'm amazed you would choose his 2-way play.

 

[Wheatking]

Seguin is probably ready, but with Boston's depth at center, the last thing they need to do is rush him. Unlike Hall, he still has more to prove at the junior level.

I don't get this either. "Unlike Hall"?

Taylor Hall's 2009-10 Awards
CHL Memorial Cup All-Star Team
CHL Memorial Cup Most Valuable Player "Stafford Smythe Trophy"
OHL All-Star Game
OHL First All-Star Team
OHL Most Points "Eddie Powers Trophy" (106)
U20 WJC Silver Medal

Tyler Seguin's 2009-10 Awards
CHL Top Draft Prospect Award
OHL All-Star Game
OHL First All-Star Team
OHL Most Outstanding Player "Red Tilson Trophy"
OHL Most Points "Eddie Powers Trophy" (106)

The only awards Hall really has over Seguin is the Memorial Cup MVP's and a silver medal at the WJC. Seguin has basically no chance of making it to the Memorial Cup next season and 6 or 7 games representing Team Canada worth another full season of junior. He was CHL Top Prospect. OHL MVP, lead the league in points and was 3rd in goals.

What more does he need to do that can realistically be achieved?

 

[Kevin Malone]

Why would he? Plymouth had a great PK and that was without him on it. How would their powerplay look without him? He was by far their best offensive threat and they had plenty of defensively reliable players. It only made sense that they save him for offensive situations. It's a coach playing to the team's strength and weaknesses.

So it doesn't scare you one bit to bring a kid into the NHL who hasn't killed penalties in a few years? I would rather him work on this in junior instead getting burned at the pros and loosing confidence. I am pretty sure that all the top centres in the game today were PK'ing their final year of junior before they got to the NHL.

Against Taylor Hall in the playoffs their lines would go head to head when the games were in Plymouth. Boughner was constantly trying to get Hall's line away from Seguin. Despite having a goal and an assist in game 2, I'd say it was hands down the worst overall game I had ever seen from Hall and it was in large part because of Seguin.

So Hall gets 2 points and Seguin gets 0 and it's Seguin who shuting down Hall? You realize in game 2 Seguin was a -2. If anything it was Hall who had Seguin off his game.

Also in that 4 game series Seguin was a -6 while putting up 0 points.

He's been benched once in his entire career. In Oil Change he talked about how it made him more committed to the defensive side of the game.

That's to be expected.

Seguin
Total: 106 points
Home: 66 points(62%)
Away: 40 point(38%)

Hall
Total: 106 points
Home: 62 points(59%)
Away: 44(41%)

Both played 30 home games. There really isn't that much difference.

If you looked at Halls record in the playoffs/Mem Cup/WJC his production increases even more than at home.

Tyler Seguin
Total: 48 goals and 106 points
Playoff Teams: 33 goals and 80 points
Top 4 Seeded Teams: 15 goals and 35 points
Bottom 4 Seeded Teams: 18 goals and 45 points
The 4 Non-Playoff Teams: 15 goals and 26 points

Taylor Hall
Total: 40 goals and 106 points
Playoff Teams: 29 goals and 82 points
Top 4 Seeded Teams: 13 goals and 37 points
Bottom 4 Seeded Teams: 16 goals and 45 points
The 4 Non-Playoff Teams: 11 goals and 24 points

They're basically identical.

No their not equal. Hall spent a good portion of each game on th PK while Seguin did not. Hall also didn't play 2min on the PP like Seguin did on many occassions.

Also when Windsor played the average/bottom teams in the league they rolled 4 lines constantly and if the game was already won Hall was used sparingly. This reduced his ice time drastically.

Plymouth was a 2/3 line team.

I would love to see a stat comparing production of the two based on even strength points/even strenght ice time.

I'm not entirely sure how that makes him not ready for the NHL.

I don't get this. Even when Seguin didn't deliver offensively, you were almost guaranteed a great defensive game. Datsyuk is the only guy I can think of that is able to strip players of the puck and maintain possession so easily. Playing on the PK doesn't make you a good defensive player. He's way better than Hall in his own end...and Hall's not bad. Of all the things to single out in Seguin's game I'm amazed you would choose his 2-way play

Isn't it strange that Hall(Mem Cup MVP) plays the PK on the best junior team in North America with some of the best junior players in North America. Yet Seguin(who you say is defensively better) can't even play the PK on his own team when he is supposedly head and shoulders above everyone else.

Crosby still played the PK in Rimouski even though he was racking up more points than Seguin.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

So will Seguin play centre or wing?

If he plays top 6 wing he will be o.k.. I think he may have trouble playing centre when he's basically played against OHL 2nd/3rd line centres up til now. He'll get eaten alive trying to cover Crosby/Malkin/Backstrom etc.

Why would he be covering those types? That's Bergeron's job....and he and Chara do one hell of a good job.

Seguin will do alright, especially if he's under Julien's eye. Hell, Marc Savard went from a supposed "one-dimensional forward" to killing penalties in Boston. Seguin will have no problem adjusting at the NHL level with the Bruins' coaching staff. Then again, it seems like you don't think highly of Seguin at all....

 

[Wheatking]

So it doesn't scare you one bit to bring a kid into the NHL who hasn't killed penalties in a few years? I would rather him work on this in junior instead getting burned at the pros and loosing confidence. I am pretty sure that all the top centres in the game today were PK'ing their final year of junior before they got to the NHL.

It doesn't scare me one bit. The fact that Seguin is so good defensively is common knowledge. I don't really know why you're arguing this. If he goes back to Plymouth next season he's not going to play on the PK. I've already explained this.

Seguin is arguably the smartest player in the 2010 draft. He's also one of the best defensively. I'm pretty sure he could wrap his head around the Bruins PK. If anything, practicing with NHLers would be more beneficial to him.

So Hall gets 2 points and Seguin gets 0 and it's Seguin who shuting down Hall? You realize in game 2 Seguin was a -2. If anything it was Hall who had Seguin off his game.

Also in that 4 game series Seguin was a -6 while putting up 0 points.

Points aren't the end all, be all of the argument. Do I need to post my game summaries from that series? Just because Hall gets 2 points that doesn't mean he had a good 60 minutes....and he didn't have a good 60 minutes in game 2. You should know better than anyone that all Hall needs is an inch and he's going to score a goal.

If you looked at Halls record in the playoffs/Mem Cup/WJC his production increases even more than at home.

You just used putting up points at home as a negative against Seguin. Now it's a positive for Hall?

It's irrelevant. Lets not split hairs here. The point is that players are supposed to do better at home. If they don't, they probably don't have a good coach that knows how to line match. Both Hall and Seguin did better at home while not doing bad on the road.

No their not equal. Hall spent a good portion of each game on th PK while Seguin did not. Hall also didn't play 2min on the PP like Seguin did on many occassions.

Also when Windsor played the average/bottom teams in the league they rolled 4 lines constantly and if the game was already won Hall was used sparingly. This reduced his ice time drastically.

Plymouth was a 2/3 line team.

I would love to see a stat comparing production of the two based on even strength points/even strenght ice time.

Again, irrelevant. I just used Hall so you could see a comparable. Look at my avatar. Clearly I think Hall is the better player. You don't have to try and convince me.

The point is that you said Seguin was shut down against better competition and that simply wasn't true.

Isn't it strange that Hall(Mem Cup MVP) plays the PK on the best junior team in North America with some of the best junior players in North America. Yet Seguin(who you say is defensively better) can't even play the PK on his own team when he is supposedly head and shoulders above everyone else.

Crosby still played the PK in Rimouski even though he was racking up more points than Seguin.

Put Seguin on the Spitfires and he's killing penalties. Put Hall on the Whalers and he isn't. The fact that Seguin is better defensively shouldn't even be debatable. It's common knowledge.

Why would you use Seguin on the PK when you have other capable players? Even without Seguin they had one of the best PKs in the league. Look at the point totals of players on that team. He was their only offensive threat. It only makes sense to save him for offensive situations. It's not that he "can't" play the PK. He just shouldn't.

 

[leafsfuture]

No offence Curtis Belfour, but you said in another post that Brayden Schenn should play next year with Manchester of the AHL. The fact that hes not even AHL eligable tells me that you dont really dont know that much on prospects

 

[Kevin Malone]

No offence Curtis Belfour, but you said in another post that Brayden Schenn should play next year with Manchester of the AHL. The fact that hes not even AHL eligable tells me that you dont really dont know that much on prospects

So I am wrong about 1 prospects AHL eligibility and that means I know nothing about prospects?

First of all I don't follow the WHL as closley as the OHL, so getting one players AHL eligibility means little to me.

I attend 30-40 CHL games a year and watch 100-130 also. I don't go on HockeyDB and make assumptions like the vast majority of posters on here do. I actually put my money where my mouth is and actually go and see these kids first hand. If I get a chance I talk to them as well as many around the junior game.

WheatKing: I attended 3 out of 4 games of the Windsor/Plymouth series this year. I can tell you that the general consensus of those involved in that series as well as scouts was that Hall showed up and Seguin didn't. Also it was Scott Timmins that played against Seguin for the majority of the series. Timmins kept Seguin pointless.

I wish more people that post here would actually get out to games and see these kids play. There is too many HockeyDB know it all's that only look at game sheet and have no idea what an intangible is.

Is Seguin a smart kid...no doubt! Is he talented....absolutely!

However after seeing him live on many, many ocassions he's yet to convince me that he goes above and beyond and do the things necessary to become a quality two way centre. This involves going into the dirty areas, fighting through checks, blocking shots. These are all things lacking in his game that prevent him from being a top two way centre at the next level. Being great at lifting 16 year olds sticks does not make one a good defensive player. Of course it's just my opinion

 

[BLONG7]

Pierre, being a former NHL regular himself, would know.

good one!!

 

[Jahodac]

Watch him be a total Stud next season

 

[Wilma]

Only thing that would keep him out is if Boston's lineup is too crowded I'd say.

 

[Wheatking]

So I am wrong about 1 prospects AHL eligibility and that means I know nothing about prospects?

First of all I don't follow the WHL as closley as the OHL, so getting one players AHL eligibility means little to me.

I attend 30-40 CHL games a year and watch 100-130 also. I don't go on HockeyDB and make assumptions like the vast majority of posters on here do. I actually put my money where my mouth is and actually go and see these kids first hand. If I get a chance I talk to them as well as many around the junior game.

WheatKing: I attended 3 out of 4 games of the Windsor/Plymouth series this year. I can tell you that the general consensus of those involved in that series as well as scouts was that Hall showed up and Seguin didn't. Also it was Scott Timmins that played against Seguin for the majority of the series. Timmins kept Seguin pointless.

I wish more people that post here would actually get out to games and see these kids play. There is too many HockeyDB know it all's that only look at game sheet and have no idea what an intangible is.

Is Seguin a smart kid...no doubt! Is he talented....absolutely!

However after seeing him live on many, many ocassions he's yet to convince me that he goes above and beyond and do the things necessary to become a quality two way centre. This involves going into the dirty areas, fighting through checks, blocking shots. These are all things lacking in his game that prevent him from being a top two way centre at the next level. Being great at lifting 16 year olds sticks does not make one a good defensive player. Of course it's just my opinion

I'm not going to debate who was better in that series. I watched all 4 games and obviously Hall got the better of Seguin. My only point on that one specific thing you said was that in the games that were in Plymouth, the Whalers tried to have Seguin and Hall go head to head. They did this because Seguin did a good job of shutting down Hall. You said he never had the role of shutting down the oppositions top players when in reality the Whalers actually preferred to have him out there.

As for his defensive game. Obviously there is more to it than just lifting sticks. That's just the part that really sticks with me because he did it so often and made it look so easy.

He's also very good positionally. I've seen him just completely isolate Dmen at the blue line to the point where they have no options. When this happens he closes in, takes the puck away and sends teammates off on an odd man rush. It's a pretty amazing play that he probably won't be able to pull off in the NHL but still leaves an impression with you.

My biggest issues with Seguin is that he usually isn't willing to be the first player in the corner and take the hit. That doesn't mean he can't win a battle though. This is something that he can learn from professionals.

...and in the end he will be in the NHL for his offense. He's good enough defensively that he will be able to hold his own. There are a lot less capable players in the NHL than Seguin will be. It comes down to offense and he's proven all he can in the OHL by leading the league in goals and points.

 

[alcanalz]

Only thing that would keep him out is if Boston's lineup is too crowded I'd say.

Exactly, and even that won't keep him out I'd bet.

Also, as for the "Hall plays the PK but Seguin doesn't" argument... Alexander Semin plays on the PK for Washington. Alexander Semin. And if anyone dares tell me he's good defensively, I will laugh in your face.

 

[Kevin Malone]

Exactly, and even that won't keep him out I'd bet.

Also, as for the "Hall plays the PK but Seguin doesn't" argument... Alexander Semin plays on the PK for Washington. Alexander Semin. And if anyone dares tell me he's good defensively, I will laugh in your face.

You mean Washington who was 25th on the PK? I am pretty sure Semin wouldn't play the PK on a team that had the slighest clue what defense was.

I was talking about someone playing on one of the best PK units on the best team in the CHL not the worst. Crosby or Toews would be a better analogy.

 

[Clownpipe*]

So will Seguin play centre or wing?

If he plays top 6 wing he will be o.k.. I think he may have trouble playing centre when he's basically played against OHL 2nd/3rd line centres up til now. He'll get eaten alive trying to cover Crosby/Malkin/Backstrom etc.

Ya, it's not like every other player in the league gets lit up by top 5 players. Is it customary for any team to play rookies power vs power against Crosby? Why in the world do you think Boston would throw Seguin to the wolves when they have pretty elite guys like Bergeron to do that?

Most of the other stuff you've noted thus far is pretty silly, so thank god wheatking took the bait. I didn't have time a 4 page debate on this crap....

 

[King Mapes]

LOL @ all the Leafs fans saying he's not ready...

Whats funny about that? How many 18 year olds are?

 

[Jeff_Dyck_#1]

Here he comes, ready or not.

 

[Tavaresmagicalplay*]

Whats funny about that? How many 18 year olds are?

Quite a few, especially the ones selected in the top 2.

 

[PB37]

McGuire: McQuire not ready to make NHL player analysis

 

[Pick Six]

Really wish the posters around here had half the knowledge about hockey that Pierre McGuire has. At the very least, he's seen these kids play live, where most people around here don't even watch them on TV.

 

[oilsands]

And I ask again, 'so what' if he is not ready?

He will be a top-line, most likely perennial All-Star player within a handful of years.

 

[petrobruin]

Right

for his sake it would be better for him if he returns to junior because Claude Julien is absolutely TERRIBLE when it comes to handling young players

Because he didn't develop Kessels,Krejci,and Lucic in the last 2 years well at all

Thanks