C Trevor Zegras (2019, 9th, ANA)

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I had zegras and byram going back and forth at 3 on my draft board. Still think i take hughes slightly due to the skating and kakko i think is fantastic player as well. But i remember people telling me turcotte is easily the better player, which was insane to me and i think that was media ranking bias getting in the way over the eye test. He clearly showed an elite skill level in his draft year. Nearly fell to 10 to my canucks, what a dream that would have been.
I am not here to bash Turcotte, he is just a different style of player....nobody can watch them and not come away saying Zegras isn't more talented. Doesn't mean Turcotte wont be effective at his style of play but Zegras has some traits that just aren't taught that have nothing to do with skill and everything to do with processing and understanding the game and what I am looking forward to is when he becomes a true 3 zone player, with his IQ and skill he can turn into a real take away machine
 
I am not here to bash Turcotte, he is just a different style of player....nobody can watch them and not come away saying Zegras isn't more talented.

I’m going to slightly take exception to that. Zegras is more skilled. He’s a better passer and has better stick skills. I would’ve given the shot advantage to Turcotte prior to this season, but Zegras has improved in this area, so now it’s probably at least even. Although, I think Turcotte will score more goals because of his very good net front play. Zegras will get more assists. And then Turcotte has an advantage in defensive play, skating, and hockey sense.

So I think there are some advantages for both players. Neither player has any bigger weakness, as I see it. They play differently, but puck skills doesn’t necessarily equal talent. The guy you quoted tried to make it seem like it’s crazy that people had Turcotte above Zegras. People forget that Turcotte significantly out-scored Zegras both years at the NTDP. The first year their roles might’ve partly explained that, but not the second year. And Turcotte’s scoring pace was crazy and way beyond all the other freshmen last year in the NCAA before injuries/illness derailed his season.

Some of you Duck fans act like Turcotte isn’t offensively talented, and I don’t think it’s an accurate representation, at all. No reason you gotta pick on Turcotte here to compliment Zegras. It wasn’t a conspiracy against Zegras that Turcotte went four picks higher. He was ranked higher on LA’s board (and 7 other teams picked other players ahead of him). All of the top 10 2019 guys were relatively close in ability and assessing prospects is a crap shoot. We’ll see how things work out for all these players. Zegras is looking like a good pick for Anaheim.
 
I’m going to slightly take exception to that. Zegras is more skilled. He’s a better passer and has better stick skills. I would’ve given the shot advantage to Turcotte prior to this season, but Zegras has improved in this area, so now it’s probably at least even. Although, I think Turcotte will score more goals because of his very good net front play. Zegras will get more assists. And then Turcotte has an advantage in defensive play, skating, and hockey sense.

So I think there are some advantages for both players. Neither player has any bigger weakness, as I see it. They play differently, but puck skills doesn’t necessarily equal talent. The guy you quoted tried to make it seem like it’s crazy that people had Turcotte above Zegras. People forget that Turcotte significantly out-scored Zegras both years at the NTDP. The first year their roles might’ve partly explained that, but not the second year. And Turcotte’s scoring pace was crazy and way beyond all the other freshmen last year in the NCAA before injuries/illness derailed his season.

Some of you Duck fans act like Turcotte isn’t offensively talented, and I don’t think it’s an accurate representation, at all. No reason you gotta pick on Turcotte here to compliment Zegras. It wasn’t a conspiracy against Zegras that Turcotte went four picks higher. He was ranked higher on LA’s board (and 7 other teams picked other players ahead of him). All of the top 10 2019 guys were relatively close in ability and assessing prospects is a crap shoot. We’ll see how things work out for all these players. Zegras is looking like a good pick for Anaheim.
My fandom has nothing to do with a player evaluation. I was responding to another post that mentioned Turcotte. I never said Turcotte didn't have talent, I said he is not as talented as Zegras
 
I’m going to slightly take exception to that. Zegras is more skilled. He’s a better passer and has better stick skills. I would’ve given the shot advantage to Turcotte prior to this season, but Zegras has improved in this area, so now it’s probably at least even. Although, I think Turcotte will score more goals because of his very good net front play. Zegras will get more assists. And then Turcotte has an advantage in defensive play, skating, and hockey sense.

So I think there are some advantages for both players. Neither player has any bigger weakness, as I see it. They play differently, but puck skills doesn’t necessarily equal talent. The guy you quoted tried to make it seem like it’s crazy that people had Turcotte above Zegras. People forget that Turcotte significantly out-scored Zegras both years at the NTDP. The first year their roles might’ve partly explained that, but not the second year. And Turcotte’s scoring pace was crazy and way beyond all the other freshmen last year in the NCAA before injuries/illness derailed his season.

Some of you Duck fans act like Turcotte isn’t offensively talented, and I don’t think it’s an accurate representation, at all. No reason you gotta pick on Turcotte here to compliment Zegras. It wasn’t a conspiracy against Zegras that Turcotte went four picks higher. He was ranked higher on LA’s board (and 7 other teams picked other players ahead of him). All of the top 10 2019 guys were relatively close in ability and assessing prospects is a crap shoot. We’ll see how things work out for all these players. Zegras is looking like a good pick for Anaheim.

for the record a lot of fans in this thread arnt even duck fans.... some are just fans of zegras... and they includes some of the ones bashing turcotte or talking down on turcotte, and talking up zegras
 
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I’m going to slightly take exception to that. Zegras is more skilled. He’s a better passer and has better stick skills. I would’ve given the shot advantage to Turcotte prior to this season, but Zegras has improved in this area, so now it’s probably at least even. Although, I think Turcotte will score more goals because of his very good net front play. Zegras will get more assists. And then Turcotte has an advantage in defensive play, skating, and hockey sense.

So I think there are some advantages for both players. Neither player has any bigger weakness, as I see it. They play differently, but puck skills doesn’t necessarily equal talent. The guy you quoted tried to make it seem like it’s crazy that people had Turcotte above Zegras. People forget that Turcotte significantly out-scored Zegras both years at the NTDP. The first year their roles might’ve partly explained that, but not the second year. And Turcotte’s scoring pace was crazy and way beyond all the other freshmen last year in the NCAA before injuries/illness derailed his season.

Some of you Duck fans act like Turcotte isn’t offensively talented, and I don’t think it’s an accurate representation, at all. No reason you gotta pick on Turcotte here to compliment Zegras. It wasn’t a conspiracy against Zegras that Turcotte went four picks higher. He was ranked higher on LA’s board (and 7 other teams picked other players ahead of him). All of the top 10 2019 guys were relatively close in ability and assessing prospects is a crap shoot. We’ll see how things work out for all these players. Zegras is looking like a good pick for Anaheim.
Almost all of the Turcotte bashing comes from guys I have not seen on Ducks boards.
 
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Zegras is an amazing talent... Should never have dropped as much as he did.

I was really surprised Detroit did not pick him at the time, especially given their organizational weakness at C.

Nothing against Veleno, but he's no Zegras.


Zegras will be a special player.

Detroit didn’t choose Veleno over Zegras - they chose Seider over Zegras, which is still looking like the right choice, despite how good Zegras has been. Detroit had an organizational need for a #1 D as well.
 
I have been leaning towards Zegras > Kakko for a long time, I think there was a good argument for it before this tournament.

I agree that basing your judgment on a few games is foolish, but we should use our brains and evaluate based on what we've seen over the last 18 months. You are sticking to the ol' draft order like it's the Council of Nicaea!
But in the last 18 months we haven't been able to see Zegras and guys like Kakko/Hughes/Dach at the same level of competition to actually make a fair comparison.
It's very difficult to compare a good/great NCAA season with a bad/mediocre rookie season in the NHL, but look at it this way:

Since 2000, this is how these guys ranked in U19 points/GP in their respective leagues:

NHL (eliminating players with <10GP)
Dach: 28th
Kakko: 29th
Hughes: 30th

NCAA
Zegras: 28th

That's not a perfect comparison for sure, but I think you need to back up your argument for what Zegras has supposedly done in the last 18 months that should be valued higher than what prospects playing at higher levels have done.

Zegras is an amazing talent... Should never have dropped as much as he did.

I was really surprised Detroit did not pick him at the time, especially given their organizational weakness at C.

Nothing against Veleno, but he's no Zegras.

Zegras will be a special player.
Wings had/have organizational weakness at D also. Considering Seider currently looks like the homerun pick of the draft, I'd say they did okay.
 
Zegras is an amazing talent... Should never have dropped as much as he did.

I was really surprised Detroit did not pick him at the time, especially given their organizational weakness at C.

Nothing against Veleno, but he's no Zegras.

Zegras will be a special player.

Look dude, I'm a BU alumni and a fan of Zegras. He'll be a legit 1st line center. No doubt about it.

But in 2019 the Wings picked Seider who is the best defenseman in the SHL right now and will be a legit top pair defenseman in the NHL almost as soon as he steps on the ice.
 
Kakko was a dominant factor at the Men's World's though, and on any given night you can watch Seider be a dominant factor in the SHL against much higher level competition than frickin' Austria or the Czech junior teams.
I just think it's way premature to talk about Zegras climbing past many players. First let's see him against men. He wasn't even that great against Russia, which is the only decent team he's played so far at this tournament.

That's the thing, the comparisons are tough to make because Hughes, Kakko, Dach, Seider, Broberg and Soderstrom have played in mens' leagues while the others in the top 17 (if you want to include Newhook and Krebs) haven't so how about we see how they all fare against men (NHL), for at least a few years and then do a redraft.

If you look back at past redrafts after one year, I bet a lot of people look stupid now.
The fact of the matter is that a lot of highly drafted players look great a year or two after the redraft. It's how they do when they are really challenged at the pro level that will determine how good they are, not how they perform at a junior tournament especially against the minnows of the tournament.

With that said, Zegras always had very high end skill. Him destroying the World Juniors doesn't change my mind on that one bit and honestly, these huge point totals against garbage junior teams means nothing to me quite frankly.
Anyway, for the Oilers I wanted him over Broberg at the draft and still do (and hate that the Oilers gifted him to a non-Covid format division rival) but I'd love to be wrong. Broberg is doing pretty well himself so I'm happy enough with him.
I'd take Seider over anybody in this draft. I think he's THAT good.
 
That's the thing, the comparisons are tough to make because Hughes, Kakko, Dach, Seider, Broberg and Soderstrom have played in mens' leagues while the others in the top 17 (if you want to include Newhook and Krebs) haven't so how about we see how they all fare against men (NHL), for at least a few years and then do a redraft.

If you look back at past redrafts after one year, I bet a lot of people look stupid now.
The fact of the matter is that a lot of highly drafted players look great a year or two after the redraft. It's how they do when they are really challenged at the pro level that will determine how good they are, not how they perform at a junior tournament especially against the minnows of the tournament.

With that said, Zegras always had very high end skill. Him destroying the World Juniors doesn't change my mind on that one bit and honestly, these huge point totals against garbage junior teams means nothing to me quite frankly.
Anyway, for the Oilers I wanted him over Broberg at the draft and still do (and hate that the Oilers gifted him to a non-Covid format division rival) but I'd love to be wrong. Broberg is doing pretty well himself so I'm happy enough with him.
I'd take Seider over anybody in this draft. I think he's THAT good.
That's the thing, the comparisons are tough to make because Hughes, Kakko, Dach, Seider, Broberg and Soderstrom have played in mens' leagues while the others in the top 17 (if you want to include Newhook and Krebs) haven't so how about we see how they all fare against men (NHL), for at least a few years and then do a redraft.

If you look back at past redrafts after one year, I bet a lot of people look stupid now.
The fact of the matter is that a lot of highly drafted players look great a year or two after the redraft. It's how they do when they are really challenged at the pro level that will determine how good they are, not how they perform at a junior tournament especially against the minnows of the tournament.

With that said, Zegras always had very high end skill. Him destroying the World Juniors doesn't change my mind on that one bit and honestly, these huge point totals against garbage junior teams means nothing to me quite frankly.
Anyway, for the Oilers I wanted him over Broberg at the draft and still do (and hate that the Oilers gifted him to a non-Covid format division rival) but I'd love to be wrong. Broberg is doing pretty well himself so I'm happy enough with him.
I'd take Seider over anybody in this draft. I think he's THAT good.
It’s honestly just too early for these types of comparisons , I think most teams would stick it out with whoever they picked and happy to have them ... we really won’t have a good idea for 2 or 3 more years.

kinda funny thinking bout the draft tho as I imagine most people thought (including Detroit fans) they’d end up with zegras/cozens.


As a ducks fan I thought we’d be choosing between seider/newhook/Krebs or boldly.


In the end it kinda worked out for Anaheim
Ducks got their potential 1c, and ended up with our potential 1 rhd in drysdale the next year.
 
great player. Its hard to judge specific players at the WJC but you can see some special talents each year and this guy looks like it
 
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The Zegras hype-train is quite possibly rolling too fast after a couple dominant performances over less talented U19 teams, but I'm glad for him. I've always been really impressed by his skill set, and, while at times he benefitted from playing alongside or behind Hughes, I think he was unfairly under-discussed due to the depth in talent of that year's NTDP team. Many other years, I think Zegras would've been the clear standout forward for the NTDP.

Even this thread is way, way shorter than players like Caufield and Seider from the same draft class, and he's still listed as a USNTDP player instead of a BU player.

There are still fair questions about how well Zegras' game translates up to the pro level, but at the moment I'm stoked that more casual fans are able to see what those of us who really, really rate Zegras have been clamoring about the last few years.
 
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The Zegras hype-train is quite possibly rolling too fast after a couple dominant performances over less talented U19 teams, but I'm glad for him. I've always been really impressed by his skill set, and, while at times he benefitted from playing alongside or behind Hughes, I think he was unfairly under-discussed due to the depth in talent of that year's NTDP team. Many other years, I think Zegras would've been the clear standout forward for the NTDP.

Even this thread is way, way shorter than players like Caufield and Seider from the same draft class, and he's still listed as a USNTDP player instead of a BU player.

There are still fair questions about how well Zegras' game translates up to the pro level, but at the moment I'm stoked that more casual fans are able to see what those of us who really, really rate Zegras have been clamoring about the last few years.

I just edited the thread title. I don’t usually do so for the threads I make, but it takes 30 seconds. If you see any others I started that you think I should edit, please tag me and I’ll do do.
 
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The Zegras hype-train is quite possibly rolling too fast after a couple dominant performances over less talented U19 teams, but I'm glad for him. I've always been really impressed by his skill set, and, while at times he benefitted from playing alongside or behind Hughes, I think he was unfairly under-discussed due to the depth in talent of that year's NTDP team. Many other years, I think Zegras would've been the clear standout forward for the NTDP.

Even this thread is way, way shorter than players like Caufield and Seider from the same draft class, and he's still listed as a USNTDP player instead of a BU player.

There are still fair questions about how well Zegras' game translates up to the pro level, but at the moment I'm stoked that more casual fans are able to see what those of us who really, really rate Zegras have been clamoring about the last few years.

One of these prospects is a Ducks prospect, and the other are original 6 prospects. Why is this surprising to you?
It is also kind of a running joke that noone cares about Ducks prospects. this was the response to Drysdale when he was drafted by the Ducks:
upload_2020-12-30_12-38-14.png
 
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And then Turcotte has an advantage in defensive play, skating, and hockey sense.

What do you see from Turcotte that leads you to believe he has better hockey sense? Every time I watch them play, I come away thinking Zegras has much better hockey sense in the offensive and neutral zone. This is not meant as a slight to Turcotte but Zegras seems to read plays at an exceptional level.
 
One of these prospects is a Ducks prospect, and the other are original 6 prospects. Why is this surprising to you?
It is also kind of a running joke that noone cares about Ducks prospects. this was the response to Drysdale when he was drafted by the Ducks:
View attachment 381043

I definitely get that perspective, that's a big factor for sure. That said, I felt like Zegras was underdiscussed during his draft year as well.
 
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I had Zegras #2 on my 2019 board behind only Hughes. But I will maintain his IQ may give him a higher ceiling than even Hughes. Wouldn't be surprised to see him end up being the best player of that draft. That IQ could carry a very long career.
 
I definitely get that perspective, that's a big factor for sure. That said, I felt like Zegras was underdiscussed during his draft year as well.
He definitely was.

The main talk was Hughes, Turcotte and Caufield.

At times it even felt like even Boldy was generating more chatter than Zegras.

When I saw Zegras back then it felt like he had something special. Not many players can see the ice like him.
 
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One of these prospects is a Ducks prospect, and the other are original 6 prospects. Why is this surprising to you?
It is also kind of a running joke that noone cares about Ducks prospects. this was the response to Drysdale when he was drafted by the Ducks:
View attachment 381043
It’s more because one was drafted by a Canadian team and the other wasn’t. Lafreniere’s thread has barely any activity since his draft and he’s the biggest prospect in the world. Part of it is because he hasn’t played but if he was drafted by one of the Canadian teams we’d be on thread number 25 by now.
 
What do you see from Turcotte that leads you to believe he has better hockey sense? Every time I watch them play, I come away thinking Zegras has much better hockey sense in the offensive and neutral zone. This is not meant as a slight to Turcotte but Zegras seems to read plays at an exceptional level.

Good question. I actually expected disagreement. I think we've seen this very odd blurring of the lines recently that combines passing vision and creativity into hockey sense. I highly disagree with this. I think they are very distinct categories. Those spin passes we see from Zegras or being to see difficult passes others don't see is pure raw creativity or vision. To me, those are offensive attributes, not tactical/sense/IQ/mental attributes. So when I see people say Zegras has elite hockey sense, I think they really mean he has elite vision/creativity/ability to find solutions offensively. To me, hockey sense combines how well a player understands positioning, where teammates should be, where opponents should be, limiting errors with the puck, the ability to know when to try to do a lot and when to try to make simple plays, situational decision-making, anticipating player movements for players and opponents.

To me, Turcotte is excellent at these types of categories. I think there probably was no player in the 2019 draft better at these categories. There are going to be people that say McDavid, Kane, MacKinnon have the best hockey sense in the NHL, but I've consistently argued otherwise. I simply think they misinterpret what hockey sense is. I think players such as Bergeron, Couturier, Barkov, Kopitar, ROR, Cirelli, Stone have the best hockey sense. Thats not to suggest Zegras doesn't have above-average hockey sense, but those spin passes or seeing a player open that other players wouldn't see isn't hockey sense, in my opinion. Thats an offensive attribute. Hockey sense is neither offense or defensive. It's the non-skills/physical/athletic part of the game. You could call it a mental/tactical skill.
 
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Good question. I actually expected disagreement. I think we've seen this very odd blurring of the lines recently that combines passing vision and creativity into hockey sense. I highly disagree with this. I think they are very distinct categories. Those spin passes we see from Zegras or being to see difficult passes others don't see is pure raw creativity or vision. To me, those are offensive attributes, not tactical/sense/IQ/mental attributes. So when I see people say Zegras has elite hockey sense, I think they really mean he has elite vision/creativity/ability to find solutions offensively. To me, hockey sense combines how well a player understands positioning, where teammates should be, where opponents should be, limiting errors with the puck, the ability to know when to try to do a lot and when to try to make simple plays, situational decision-making, anticipating player movements for players and opponents.

To me, Turcotte is excellent at these types of categories. I think there probably was no player in the 2019 draft better at these categories. There are going to be people that say McDavid, Kane, MacKinnon have the best hockey sense in the NHL, but I've consistently argued otherwise. I simply think they misinterpret what hockey sense is. I think players such as Bergeron, Couturier, Barkov, Kopitar, ROR, Cirelli, Stone have the best hockey sense. Thats not to suggest Zegras doesn't have above-average hockey sense, but those spin passes or seeing a player open that other players wouldn't see isn't hockey sense, in my opinion. Thats an offensive attribute. Hockey sense is neither offense or defensive. It's the non-skills/physical/athletic part of the game. You could call it a mental/tactical skill.

Interesting, while I respect your opinion, I can't say I agree on your assessment of hockey sense.

To me, hockey sense is the ability to read how the play is developing and react accordingly. Hockey players with great hockey sense know when to slow the play down and wait for the play to develop/players to catch up, or speed the play up and push the puck to an area where the play will develop. I constantly notice Zegras changing tempo/angles based on what the defense is giving him, he seems to know how the play will develop before anyone else.

Gretzky, to me, is the ultimate example of hockey sense, he just knew where all the pieces were and he knew the absolute optimal tempo/play/angle to maximize opportunities.

To me, you're combining X&Os and hockey sense. I think a guy like Turcotte is incredibly well-coached and plays a very structured game to go along with a very good hockey sense but I don't see that extra level in him where he can see how the play will develop and change his tactics accordingly.
 

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