C Trevor Zegras (2019, 9th, ANA)

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I feel like the Calder is the one trophy where your odds significantly decrease after your 1st season

Wrong trophy, my mistake. The Selke. But he did win the Calder! I guess I wasn't completely wrong.

 

[GetFocht]

That is ridiculously bad defence.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Kind is surprising he fell to number 9 (was it?) in his draft year. He sure is looking like a top five talent isn’t he?

He is looking better than Turcotte, and I would definitely take him above Broberg (for Edmonton, the positional need is probably still worth taking Broberg ahead though). That's about it though.
Zegras is too good for this level and beating up on the worst opponents at the tournament shouldn't sway anyone's opinion on him much.

 

[Odie Cleghorn]

He is looking better than Turcotte, and I would definitely take him above Broberg (for Edmonton, the positional need is probably still worth taking Broberg ahead though). That's about it though.
Zegras is too good for this level and beating up on the worst opponents at the tournament shouldn't sway anyone's opinion on him much.

Wrong on all counts. He has always looked good. This tournament just displays it more. He may well be the best player in the 2019 draft.

 

[majormajor]

He is looking better than Turcotte, and I would definitely take him above Broberg (for Edmonton, the positional need is probably still worth taking Broberg ahead though). That's about it though.
Zegras is too good for this level and beating up on the worst opponents at the tournament shouldn't sway anyone's opinion on him much.

I would go a little further and take him over Kakko. I think in a redraft you'd also at least have to think hard about where he goes relative to Hughes, Dach, Byram, Cozens, and Seider.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Wrong on all counts. He has always looked good. This tournament just displays it more. He may well be the best player in the 2019 draft.

I didn't say he hasn't looked good from day 1. Given that several players haven't even played this season you have to look at the 19-20 season where I think Zegras did better than a few guys (Turcotte, Broberg, Byram). I just don't think these lopsided games with 11-0, 7-0 results should sway anyone's opinion. If you didn't think he was the best player of the 2019 draft before this tournament, you shouldn't think so now.

I would go a little further and take him over Kakko. I think in a redraft you'd also at least have to think hard about where he goes relative to Hughes, Dach, Byram, Cozens, and Seider.

I think that's premature. And I'm not sure what you'd be basing it on. Cozens is also dominating at the WJC. Hughes, Kakko and Seider are too good for the tournament. Dach is injured but also probably shouldn't even have been there to begin with. Byram I can see a discussion about.
With so little hockey this year it's easy to overrate 3 games at the WJC. But let's see how Zegras compares to Kakko, Hughes, Dach and Seider in the NHL this coming season. Maybe Cozens and Byram will be there too?

 

[KaseMeOutside]

there aren't very many ducks fans that want to see him in the NHL, we want him to be developed right and play in the AHL. They have no reason to rush him

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I didn't say he hasn't looked good from day 1. Given that several players haven't even played this season you have to look at the 19-20 season where I think Zegras did better than a few guys (Turcotte, Broberg, Byram). I just don't think these lopsided games with 11-0, 7-0 results should sway anyone's opinion. If you didn't think he was the best player of the 2019 draft before this tournament, you shouldn't think so now.


I think that's premature. And I'm not sure what you'd be basing it on. Cozens is also dominating at the WJC. Hughes, Kakko and Seider are too good for the tournament. Dach is injured but also probably shouldn't even have been there to begin with. Byram I can see a discussion about.
With so little hockey this year it's easy to overrate 3 games at the WJC. But let's see how Zegras compares to Kakko, Hughes, Dach and Seider in the NHL this coming season. Maybe Cozens and Byram will be there too?

Idk that its premature... it really depends on how you had everyone ranked before hand.

In that draft year personally i had
Dach, Cozens, zegras, Seider, Broberg, byram and turcotte all in the same range... and i thought dach/zegras/byram were the least likely to be there at 9.

I think a lot of people felt like Seider/broberg were a bit of a reach... and i think guys like cozens dach turcotte and zegras were pretty interchangeable.

Again i think these kind of discussions are rather pointless before majority of them are in the NHL... really isnt fair... i still consider most of those prospects in the same range. And you could really throw guys like Boldy/Newhook/Krebs/Pods into the arguements in a redraft. I just dont see the need for all the talk... let the kids play and show what they can do and admire what they do... no need to really get into the Blank is better than blank or so and so would go higher in a redraft.

I dont care if zegras was drafted 121st.... im glad we got him at 9 or 1 or 121.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So now he's better than Kakko, as well, because he's having a great WJC?

The overreactions to these tournaments are incredible.

I like Zegras, but I'm starting to see why some call him very overrated. I just read comments in another thread comparing him to Bure, Forsberg, Mogilny, Lindros. That is very very unrealistic for anyone. Thats unrealistic for Lafreniere. Thats unrealistic for Hughes. Thats unrealistic for all but the generational players.

If I need to rate Zegras at that level, count me out. I think I was the original Zegras fan on this website and have the receipts to show it, but holy shit, some of you need to calm down with this hype. Because there are things he needs to work on, and quite frankly he was good, nowhere near dominant, in college hockey last year. These tournaments are two week snapshots. Fans need to stop thinking that because they see two weeks out of a full season that they have a great full picture on the full season. Some of these comments are ripe to look ridiculous looking back.

And I'm sure I'll get some hate for saying this. Keep in mind that I was a Zegras fan from the beginning, but no I can't get on board with some of these takes. FWIW, I ranked Zegras fifth at the draft. I don't see much of a reason to have him much higher or lower at this point. I think generally fans are too quick to throw around these re-drafts.

 

[majormajor]

I didn't say he hasn't looked good from day 1. Given that several players haven't even played this season you have to look at the 19-20 season where I think Zegras did better than a few guys (Turcotte, Broberg, Byram). I just don't think these lopsided games with 11-0, 7-0 results should sway anyone's opinion. If you didn't think he was the best player of the 2019 draft before this tournament, you shouldn't think so now.


I think that's premature. And I'm not sure what you'd be basing it on. Cozens is also dominating at the WJC. Hughes, Kakko and Seider are too good for the tournament. Dach is injured but also probably shouldn't even have been there to begin with. Byram I can see a discussion about.
With so little hockey this year it's easy to overrate 3 games at the WJC. But let's see how Zegras compares to Kakko, Hughes, Dach and Seider in the NHL this coming season. Maybe Cozens and Byram will be there too?

This was a legit question before the tournament. He was great for B.U. Hughes and Kakko weren't dominant in last year's WJC and struggled in the NHL, so I don't assume they are too good for the tournament. I'm sure Seider would look dominant here but he has as many questions about his upside as any of them.

 

[majormajor]

So now he's better than Kakko, as well, because he's having a great WJC?

The overreactions to these tournaments are incredible.

I like Zegras, but I'm starting to see why some call him very overrated. I just read comments in another thread comparing him to Bure, Forsberg, Mogilny, Lindros. That is very very unrealistic for anyone. Thats unrealistic for Lafreniere. Thats unrealistic for Hughes. Thats unrealistic for all but the generational players.

If I need to rate Zegras at that level, count me out. I think I was the original Zegras fan on this website and have the receipts to show it, but holy shit, some of you need to calm down with this hype. Because there are things he needs to work on, and quite frankly he was good, nowhere near dominant, in college hockey last year. These tournaments are two week snapshots. Fans need to stop thinking that because they see two weeks out of a full season that they have a great full picture on the full season. Some of these comments are ripe to look ridiculous looking back.

And I'm sure I'll get some hate for saying this. Keep in mind that I was a Zegras fan from the beginning, but no I can't get on board with some of these takes. FWIW, I ranked Zegras fifth at the draft. I don't see much of a reason to have him much higher or lower at this point. I think generally fans are too quick to throw around these re-drafts.

The draft is a crapshoot the day it happens, we should all be welcome to re-evaluate based on new information. Among that new info, Kakko just had a brutal first year in the NHL. He was among the worst players in the league.

 

[Pavels Dog]

This was a legit question before the tournament. He was great for B.U. Hughes and Kakko weren't dominant in last year's WJC and struggled in the NHL, so I don't assume they are too good for the tournament. I'm sure Seider would look dominant here but he has as many questions about his upside as any of them.

Kakko was a dominant factor at the Men's World's though, and on any given night you can watch Seider be a dominant factor in the SHL against much higher level competition than frickin' Austria or the Czech junior teams.
I just think it's way premature to talk about Zegras climbing past many players. First let's see him against men. He wasn't even that great against Russia, which is the only decent team he's played so far at this tournament.

 

[ponder]

Definitely someone who I underrated at the draft - at the time I preferred Turcotte, I no longer do.

Hard not to see elements of Barzal, Kuznetsov and Patrick Kane in this kid, his skill level is SUPER high. I think he likely ends up closer to Barzal than Kane in ability (though closer to Kane in style), but who knows really. With that much skill he should be AT LEAST a quality top 6 forward at the NHL level, and pretty likely a legit star. I won’t pretend to have a good handle on his upside, other than to say it’s very high.

 

[John Mandalorian]

So now he's better than Kakko, as well, because he's having a great WJC?

The overreactions to these tournaments are incredible.

I like Zegras, but I'm starting to see why some call him very overrated. I just read comments in another thread comparing him to Bure, Forsberg, Mogilny, Lindros. That is very very unrealistic for anyone. Thats unrealistic for Lafreniere. Thats unrealistic for Hughes. Thats unrealistic for all but the generational players.

If I need to rate Zegras at that level, count me out. I think I was the original Zegras fan on this website and have the receipts to show it, but holy shit, some of you need to calm down with this hype. Because there are things he needs to work on, and quite frankly he was good, nowhere near dominant, in college hockey last year. These tournaments are two week snapshots. Fans need to stop thinking that because they see two weeks out of a full season that they have a great full picture on the full season. Some of these comments are ripe to look ridiculous looking back.

And I'm sure I'll get some hate for saying this. Keep in mind that I was a Zegras fan from the beginning, but no I can't get on board with some of these takes. FWIW, I ranked Zegras fifth at the draft. I don't see much of a reason to have him much higher or lower at this point. I think generally fans are too quick to throw around these re-drafts.

Take this as constructive criticism: you’re getting too bent out of shape over this.

It comes across looking like you’re trying to create and control a hierarchy of young players. And if other posters get carried away and/or go outside of your acceptable hierarchy, you have a melt down.

Please keep in mind that nothing permanent is being decided in this moment. If others get carried away, let them. Who cares otherwise?

Please keep in mind that player X will either produce or not produce. And player Y will either produce or not produce. It’s not only about having talent but being in the right circumstance.

None of it is in anyone’s control who posts on a fan message board. So why not just go with the flow?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The draft is a crapshoot the day it happens, we should all be welcome to re-evaluate based on new information. Among that new info, Kakko just had a brutal first year in the NHL. He was among the worst players in the league.

First of all, the problem is not new information. It's how you use the information. If your instinct is that Zegras is better than Kakko because he can walk some guys who will get nowhere near the NHL, you are using the new information wrong. You don't properly understand the new information.

And look, if you thought all along that Zegras was better than Kakko, better than Hughes, Turcotte, Dach, Byram, Cozens, all these guys he might now be better then, stick with it. I'm all for people having different opinions, and it's not unrealistic to think he's the best of all these 2019 players. I really don't think there's a huge gap between those two players. But don't tell me that now. It shows that you don't understand the new information if it only comes about now.

It's not just Zegras. It's Byfield, it's Caufield, it's Turcotte, it's Byram, it's Podkolzin, it's Askarov, it's Knight, it's Stuetzle, it's Sanderson. All these guys that, good or bad, have all these hot-takes spewed about them from this tournament. It's as if people are voluntarily saying that they don't watch these players during the season, they will form a season's worth of opinion based on this two-week junior tournament, and they make no apologies for that and don't care how faulty that actually is. Thats my issue with these WJC overreactions, and why I think these few weeks are the absolute lowest standard of discussion you'll see on this website.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Hughes and Kakko weren't dominant in last year's WJC

Neither played in the WJC last year because they were in the NHL. They both played the year before and did well especially considering they were 17. Kakko played in the World Championship pre-draft and was great. Zegras is a very good prospect super skilled but he's beating up on kids from minnow countries who will never be in the NHL.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Take this as constructive criticism: you’re getting too bent out of shape over this.

It comes across looking like you’re trying to create and control a hierarchy of young players. And if other posters get carried away and/or go outside of your acceptable hierarchy, you have a melt down.

Please keep in mind that nothing permanent is being decided in this moment. If others get carried away, let them. Who cares otherwise?

Please keep in mind that player X will either produce or not produce. And player Y will either produce or not produce. It’s not only about having talent but being in the right circumstance.

None of it is in anyone’s control who posts on a fan message board. So why not just go with the flow?

I don't need constructive criticism from strangers on the internet. In fact, I'm certainly not the one here that needs the constructive criticism.

I come here to constructively (your word) discuss hockey. I think many others do the same. I think the standard of discussion on this website is really low during this tournament. It's filled with people who talk completely out of their ass because they don't watch these prospects during the course of a season. They see a player make a good or bad play during this tournament, and they immediately break out into First-Take style opinions.

I don't know how many times in just the last week I've tried to reason with people who make these insane comments about players, good or bad. Why can't people contextualize all of this better? Don't blame me. I'm not the one calling anyone a bust or hall of famer based on this tournament. I think it's pathetic, and really says something about how naive these people are, but I'm trying to be nice about it, and maybe help them out to try to contextualize what their opinion means. I think thats a better way of things than telling them they are insane, and need to learn the sport.

If you think it's trying to control opinions to try to reason with crazy, I guess I'm guilty of that. I don't really care how you or anyone criticizes me. I'm just going to try to constructively (your word) discuss hockey.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I don't need constructive criticism from strangers on the internet. In fact, I'm certainly not the one here that needs the constructive criticism.

I come here to constructively (your word) discuss hockey. I think many others do the same. I think the standard of discussion on this website is really low during this tournament. It's filled with people who talk completely out of their ass because they don't watch these prospects during the course of a season. They see a player make a good or bad play during this tournament, and they immediately break out into First-Take style opinions.

I don't know how many times in just the last week I've tried to reason with people who make these insane comments about players, good or bad. Why can't people contextualize all of this better? Don't blame me. I'm not the one calling anyone a bust or hall of famer based on this tournament. I think it's pathetic, and really says something about how naive these people are, but I'm trying to be nice about it, and maybe help them out to try to contextualize what their opinion means. I think thats a better way of things than telling them they are insane, and need to learn the sport.

If you think it's trying to control opinions to try to reason with crazy, I guess I'm guilty of that. I don't really care how you or anyone criticizes me. I'm just going to try to constructively (your word) discuss hockey.

Stranger? Do you know what’s strange? It’s strange that you’re dismissive of well intended advice but then you proceed to put yourself on a couch for some therapy session involving how difficult your week on HF was.

Sorry to say it but it’s ridiculous.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Stranger? Do you know what’s strange? It’s strange that you’re dismissive of well intended advice but then you proceed to put yourself on a couch for some therapy session involving how difficult your week on HF was.

Sorry to say it but it’s ridiculous.

Because it's not well-intended. If you thought I was in need of advice, you'd PM and explain to me in a nice way instead of trying to clearly make a spectacle of it. And I never said my week was difficult on this website. You made that up.

To me, it seems like you had a problem with my post that I'm sure most people actually agree with. My conclusion is that you took it a little too personally. You probably think it applies to you, and that offended you. Your way of responding to the claims is to act like there's something wrong with me, not the ones bending reality.

Edit: You know what? I see you are doing the exact same routine against another guy whose made similar comments to me in another thread. I guess I'll just laugh at this. It seems clear what you are trying to do.

 

[majormajor]

First of all, the problem is not new information. It's how you use the information. If your instinct is that Zegras is better than Kakko because he can walk some guys who will get nowhere near the NHL, you are using the new information wrong. You don't properly understand the new information.

And look, if you thought all along that Zegras was better than Kakko, better than Hughes, Turcotte, Dach, Byram, Cozens, all these guys he might now be better then, stick with it. I'm all for people having different opinions, and it's not unrealistic to think he's the best of all these 2019 players. I really don't think there's a huge gap between those two players. But don't tell me that now. It shows that you don't understand the new information if it only comes about now.

It's not just Zegras. It's Byfield, it's Caufield, it's Turcotte, it's Byram, it's Podkolzin, it's Askarov, it's Knight, it's Stuetzle, it's Sanderson. All these guys that, good or bad, have all these hot-takes spewed about them from this tournament. It's as if people are voluntarily saying that they don't watch these players during the season, they will form a season's worth of opinion based on this two-week junior tournament, and they make no apologies for that and don't care how faulty that actually is. Thats my issue with these WJC overreactions, and why I think these few weeks are the absolute lowest standard of discussion you'll see on this website.

I have been leaning towards Zegras > Kakko for a long time, I think there was a good argument for it before this tournament.

I agree that basing your judgment on a few games is foolish, but we should use our brains and evaluate based on what we've seen over the last 18 months. You are sticking to the ol' draft order like it's the Council of Nicaea!

 

[John Mandalorian]

Because it's not well-intended. If you thought I was in need of advice, you'd PM and explain to me in a nice way instead of trying to clearly make a spectacle of it. And I never said my week was difficult on this website. You made that up.

To me, it seems like you had a problem with my post that I'm sure most people actually agree with. My conclusion is that you took it a little too personally. You probably think it applies to you, and that offended you. Your way of responding to the claims is to act like there's something wrong with me, not the ones bending reality.

Edit: You know what? I see you are doing the exact same routine against another guy whose made similar comments to me in another thread. I guess I'll just laugh at this. It seems clear what you are trying to do.

Have a nice evening!

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I was not as high on Zegras in his draft year. I really questioned some of the plays he made in terms of how realistic they would be at the NHL level. That yes they looked great in junior but I struggled to see them making it through NHL teams. What has impressed me most about Zegras this tournament is where he has evolved in terms of strength on the puck and that he has at least shown his heavy shot to make the defense respect both aspects of his game. He is really strengthened some of the fundamentals in his game. Plays more of a start and stop style instead of some of the lopping, plays more direct and just all around I am looking at huge steps forward in terms of maturity.

I know the spin-o-rama passes look great but they really don't happen that often in the NHL. How he has been playing in this tournament is repeatable and bodes well for him playing pro hockey in the NHL/AHL this year. Not always fun to say, but I was too harsh on Zegras, just saw him as a winger and didn't see this level of play driver. I know there were ample reasons to believe, but it took me a while to come around. Really looking forward to seeing how he does this year. I don't think dominated college as much as some have said around here, but he certainly looks ready. His summer with Getzlaf seems to have done him well, good on him. We need big performances as Team USA fans for the rest of the tournament.

 

[Orca Smash]

I had zegras and byram going back and forth at 3 on my draft board. Still think i take hughes slightly due to the skating and kakko i think is fantastic player as well. But i remember people telling me turcotte is easily the better player, which was insane to me and i think that was media ranking bias getting in the way over the eye test. He clearly showed an elite skill level in his draft year. Nearly fell to 10 to my canucks, what a dream that would have been.

 

[Orca Smash]

I was not as high on Zegras in his draft year. I really questioned some of the plays he made in terms of how realistic they would be at the NHL level. That yes they looked great in junior but I struggled to see them making it through NHL teams. What has impressed me most about Zegras this tournament is where he has evolved in terms of strength on the puck and that he has at least shown his heavy shot to make the defense respect both aspects of his game. He is really strengthened some of the fundamentals in his game. Plays more of a start and stop style instead of some of the lopping, plays more direct and just all around I am looking at huge steps forward in terms of maturity.

I know the spin-o-rama passes look great but they really don't happen that often in the NHL. How he has been playing in this tournament is repeatable and bodes well for him playing pro hockey in the NHL/AHL this year. Not always fun to say, but I was too harsh on Zegras, just saw him as a winger and didn't see this level of play driver. I know there were ample reasons to believe, but it took me a while to come around. Really looking forward to seeing how he does this year. I don't think dominated college as much as some have said around here, but he certainly looks ready. His summer with Getzlaf seems to have done him well, good on him. We need big performances as Team USA fans for the rest of the tournament.

I never understood the bolded, its like some fans get annoyed when jr players pull off fancy shit. If you can pull off harlem globetrotter style moves against your peer's, to me you have an elite skill level and are currently head and shoulders above your peer's and thats the type of person i want to gamble on and draft. Obviously other things need to be taken into consideration, but i seen no red flags from zegras. If you can pull off something special more power to you.

 

[Nabrules]

Zegras has been fantastic this wjs. By far the best player. I still think it was a mistake for him to leave college, one more year would’ve been beneficial. Also let’s slow the hype train. Anyone remember a player very similar in Mittdlestad dominate this tournament 3 years ago. I do.