C Ryan McLeod (2018, 40th, EDM)

[93LEAFS]

You say that, but the Leafs have exploited the AHL’s ‘European trained’ rule more than anyone. It’s how you’ve been able to send underaged players like Kapanen, Nylander, and Liljegren to the AHL - which was better for their development than playing in lesser leagues - and might do it again with Sandin, and I didn’t hear you complaining about diluting the talent pool of their home leagues.

IMO, either a U-20 of any nationality should be eligible for a spot, or no one should be.

We didn't exploit anything with those. If we do it with Sandin we did with the loan rules. What you are talking about isn't a loophole.

Top European talents are playing in tough leagues against men. I didn't complain when we had to keep Marner, Kadri and Rielly in the minors, and that would be the more comparable situations.

My opinion has little to do with the Leafs, and more to do with the overall health of the CHL. CHL provides more NHLers than any other development system. I also don't think rushing guys to the AHL is that beneficial. It didn't appear to work that well for Alex Nylander or Honka.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

We didn't exploit anything with those. If we do it with Sandin we did with the loan rules. What you are talking about isn't a loophole.

Top European talents are playing in tough leagues against men. I didn't complain when we had to keep Marner, Kadri and Rielly in the minors, and that would be the more comparable situations.

My opinion has little to do with the Leafs, and more to do with the overall health of the CHL.

It is a loophole that’s designed to sell more CHL tickets and continue their particular cash cows. It has very little to do with what’s best for the player.

Kadri took years after his draft to live up to his draft position. Do you really think it benefitted Marner - or Draisaitl - to go back to junior and make a mockery of their respective leagues?

 

[93LEAFS]

It is a loophole that’s designed to sell more CHL tickets. It has very little to do with what’s best for the player.

Kadri took years after his draft to live up to his draft position. Do you really think it benefitted Marner - or Draisaitl - to go back to junior and make a mockery of their respective leagues?

I don't think they would have benefitted more by being in the AHL. I don't think it significantly altered William Nylander's development compared to Marner's developmental curves in a significantly pronounced way. Outside of being a year older, I don't think the AHL prepared Nylander much more for the NHL when they both played a full NHL season. The two prime examples who used the "loan" loop hole aren't really shining examples of taking a guy out of the CHL early. Do you think a guy like Barzal would have been even better last year if he was in the AHL at 19 instead of in the WHL?

It's something designed to protect a development system that has a proven track record.

Flat out, Ryan McLeod hasn't been able to dominate at the OHL level. He's had a good pre-season, but he hasn't outgrown the CHL. Pretty much any CHLer who is too good for the CHL, is good enough to play top 9 minutes for an NHL team.

 

[wings5]

Pretty much any CHLer who is too good for the CHL, is good enough to play top 9 minutes for an NHL team.

Not sure I fully agree with this, they may have aspects of their game that while not a big hindrance in junior, is a major weakness in the NHL. Lots of tiny guys who score 100 + points at will in the CHL but can't translate their game well to pros.

 

[93LEAFS]

Not sure I fully agree with this, they may have aspects of their game that while not a big hindrance in junior, is a major weakness in the NHL. Lots of tiny guys who score 100 + points at will in the CHL but can't translate their game well to pros.

Generally, if you have a significant flaw, it is harder to improve it against tougher competition, because you won't be put in situations where you get reps to work on it. For example, with the Marlies, William Nylander got very limited experience on the penalty kill, in London, Marner got a bunch of reps in that role.

The issue is, how much faith do you have in the coaching at that level. Leafs wouldn't entertain sending Liljegren to Niagara because they didn't trust the organization (the owners kid got hired as coach, and the owners other son is the GM). Some coaches at the junior level can push winning over everything, which can increase bad habits that will carry-over, but in other cases will put talented kids in situations that would challenge them at that level. In pro-hockey, many teenagers are trying to just not make mistakes, and can end up playing too conservative and not challenging themselves. There are issues with both systems, neither is perfect or clearly better. Each situation has their advantages.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I don't think they would have benefitted more by being in the AHL. I don't think it significantly altered William Nylander's development compared to Marner's developmental curves in a significantly pronounced way. Outside of being a year older, I don't think the AHL prepared Nylander much more for the NHL when they both played a full NHL season. The two prime examples who used the "loan" loop hole aren't really shining examples of taking a guy out of the CHL early. Do you think a guy like Barzal would have been even better last year if he was in the AHL at 19 instead of in the WHL?

It's something designed to protect a development system that has a proven track record.

Flat out, Ryan McLeod hasn't been able to dominate at the OHL level. He's had a good pre-season, but he hasn't outgrown the CHL. Pretty much any CHLer who is too good for the CHL, is good enough to play top 9 minutes for an NHL team.

I think Barzal was wasted in his final CHL year - I mean, he only had ten goals in 40+ games.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

McLellan said this morning he believes McLeod has a legitimate shot to make the team. Really impressive stuff.

 

[snipes]

He's not above the CHL level. You start draining the pool you are just changing the problem. Players will end up less ready because they don't play as good competition. It helps the younger guys like Byfield to play against someone like McLeod, and McLeod benefitted by getting the same challenges when he was 16 and 17.

I agree with this. It’s what helps keep the CHL as the best development league in the world.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

i really liked this player heading into the draft and really wanted the Leafs to take him with their pick. I think that this player needs to go back to junior. As i mentioned previously, hes spent a lot of time in behind Tippett and his brother, losing out on the top special teams opportunities. I feel like he needs to go back and really tap into his offensive potential before turning pro. If this player is brought along properly, the Oilers could have an absolute stud on their hands.

 

[93LEAFS]

I think Barzal was wasted in his final CHL year - I mean, he only had ten goals in 40+ games.

Except your argument is that it stagnates development. Do you think Barzal would have been better if he was in the AHL last year?

 

[Aceboogie]

If developed right hell be a good one. I think he has all tools, skills and the hockey IQ. I dont have a problem playing him in a few reg season games because he is playing really well in the preseason. But Id send him back down right as soon as he cools off. Put him in junior and let him work on the issues like compete level and going to the dirty areas (which can sink a career if not fixed)

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Steelheads Twitter account saying McLeod will be in the lineup Friday. Heck of a camp by McLeod, just no room for him right now. I’d be shocked if the Oilers didn’t announce an ELC for the kid tomorrow as a going away present.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

How much did his stock fall at the draft based on how his brother has disappointed thus far?

 

[ChaoticOrange]

How much did his stock fall at the draft based on how his brother has disappointed thus far?

Good question, but he looks like outright robbery at 40.

 

[93LEAFS]

How much did his stock fall at the draft based on how his brother has disappointed thus far?

I don't think much. Ryan is smarter and a better passer than his brother, but didn't have the same dog on a bone type mentality. Its not like Ryan was really wowing people in juniors having watched a bunch of Steelheads games over the years. Personally, I've generally found them a frustrating team to watch. I'm curious to see what he can do in the OHL this year if he isn't sent back.

I really don't think regional NHL scouts are as prone to name bias as people here are or people on here think NHL scouts are. At the end of the day, they watch these kids heavily enough that the bias will disappear somewhat, and their reputations depend on their ability. Last name's may get kids foot in the door at lower levels and possibly getting drafted in junior, but by the time of the draft, the name doesn't mean particularly much.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

How much did his stock fall at the draft based on how his brother has disappointed thus far?

Firstly, scouts should be fired if they factored this into their decision making process. It honestly shocks me that he went 40. id really be interested to see each teams list at their picks from around 25 and on. Did they have McLeod as their BPA but just favoured other guys? I feel like this was the case for Toronto. They were taking Sandin no matter what spot they were picking (hense why they dropped back).

 

[Sticks and Pucks]

How much did his stock fall at the draft based on how his brother has disappointed thus far?

He went where he was supposed to go. You have to remember that he had three seasons of junior hockey under his belt when he was drafted. Had he been born a week earlier, he would have been eligible for the 2017 draft. He wasn't a late bloomer either, going third overall in the OHL priority selection with all the other 1999 born and 2017 draft eligible prospects. So when evaluating his draft season, one has to realize that McLeod should be more developed than some of his 2000 born counterparts. The numbers he put up in his draft year would be more impressive for someone in his second OHL season than someone in his third OHL season.

 

[boredmale]

Looks like Owen Tippett and Ryan Mcleod have both been traded for Saginaw.

 

[780il]

Wtf happened to him after the trade?

He seemed due for a breakout season and was doing pretty well on Mississauga, his stats after the trade to Saginaw don't look good.... At all

 

[belair]

Wtf happened to him after the trade?

He seemed due for a breakout season and was doing pretty well on Mississauga, his stats after the trade to Saginaw don't look good.... At all

Haven't seen much of him this year, but IIRC he's been playing with Tippett and Perfetti. So if I had to guess, he's probably letting those two do their thing considering they're far more talented than he is offensively.

I'm not entirely worried about how he's developing in junior because we saw good things in training camp. A year or two in Bakersfield will be plenty of time for him to build up his offensive game.

 

[780il]

Haven't seen much of him this year, but IIRC he's been playing with Tippett and Perfetti. So if I had to guess, he's probably letting those two do their thing considering they're far more talented than he is offensively.

I'm not entirely worried about how he's developing in junior because we saw good things in training camp. A year or two in Bakersfield will be plenty of time for him to build up his offensive game.

Hopefully he turns into that perfect Cirelli type 3c for us. Fast, good both ways, really good pker, decent scorer. I think he could make the team after 1 year on the farm.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

Hopefully he turns into that perfect Cirelli type 3c for us. Fast, good both ways, really good pker, decent scorer. I think he could make the team after 1 year on the farm.

Yeah, that's what I'm hoping. I don't think he'll turn into a dynamic scorer or anything, but a 3c that's good at both ends would still be a great result.

Erik Haula is the comparison I like.

 

[McNurse]

Yeah, that's what I'm hoping. I don't think he'll turn into a dynamic scorer or anything, but a 3c that's good at both ends would still be a great result.

Erik Haula is the comparison I like.

If he could be like Haula I’d be very pleased, not every player needs to be a top 6 player. Having someone who is versatile and can play responsibly is important

 

[dustrock]

Haven't seen much of him this year, but IIRC he's been playing with Tippett and Perfetti. So if I had to guess, he's probably letting those two do their thing considering they're far more talented than he is offensively.

I'm not entirely worried about how he's developing in junior because we saw good things in training camp. A year or two in Bakersfield will be plenty of time for him to build up his offensive game.

Yeah, he's playing set-up man more often than not, PK, doing DZ faceoffs.

Think he could be a Marchant/Pisani type player for the Oilers down the road.