Prospect Info: C/RW Matthew Savoie, 9th Overall, 2022 NHL Draft - Traded to Moose Jaw 1/4/24

[TheMistyStranger]

Eichel who ... was run out of town

Well THAT'S some revisionist history

 

[Dirty Dog]

Yes, I proved my point worse.

Me - Show me a player that developed past their potential that wasn't a first round pick

You - You dont kniow man! I am not even gonna bother to rebut because its a waste of time

Every person who doesn't know what they are talking about comes back with this.

Oh and I left out Eichel who never reached his potential here and then was run out of town to win a stanley cup elsewhere.

You are pumping up a team that missed the playoffs 15 years in a row as great at developing talent.

One, why in the world do you think anyone is talking about the past 15 years? When people refer to this team when it comes to developing talent, in refers to this regime. No one is talking about Tim Murray for this conversation but you. It is pretty much assumed that is irrelevant to the point

Two, like I said, your list is so bad it speaks for itself. Your list to argue they aren’t good at developing talent is Bjork, Bryson, Pekar, Davidson, Asplund, and laaksonen! LAAKSONEN!!! BJORK!!!!! Good lord. That looks like an extremely sarcastic list someone put together to poke fun of a different list. It just shows a complete misunderstanding of expectations for prospects and developing talent. Look at the development of their recent first and second rounders the past few years and you’ll see a very impressive hit rate. Sorry they’d didnt develop a third rounder from 7 years ago…LAAKSONEN!!!!

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Peterka, Samuelsson, UPL, Rousek, Kozak...

Tage thompson

 

[Dirty Dog]

Tage thompson

Quinn, Kulich, and Rosen’s development have all been universally praised.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Tage thompson

Quinn, Kulich, and Rosen’s development have all been universally praised.

They're all 1st rders and they're "supposed to develop" per post #1745.

 

[toddkaz]

One, why in the world do you think anyone is talking about the past 15 years? When people refer to this team when it comes to developing talent, in refers to this regime. No one is talking about Tim Murray for this conversation but you. It is pretty much assumed that is irrelevant to the point

Two, like I said, your list is so bad it speaks for itself. Your list to argue they aren’t good at developing talent is Bjork, Bryson, Pekar, Davidson, Asplund, and laaksonen! LAAKSONEN!!! BJORK!!!!! Good lord. That looks like an extremely sarcastic list someone put together to poke fun of a different list. It just shows a complete misunderstanding of expectations for prospects and developing talent. Look at the development of their recent first and second rounders the past few years and you’ll see a very impressive hit rate. Sorry they’d didnt develop a third rounder from 7 years ago…LAAKSONEN!!!!

Are you ok? You seem to be raging.

So what you are saying is they didn't develop any talent between rounds 3-7 and players who were developed were first round draft picks that become NHL players.

Teams must be examining how the sabres develop players cause no first round players turn into stars on their own on other teams.

and picks round 3-7 other teams don't develop either. Oh wait other teams do have late round picks on their roster.

So in the end you are saying Sabres are really good at developing 1st round picks but if they aren't first round picks they were trash and werent going to develop anyways. Give me a break.

Is Cozens on your list of players developed? Cause he is going backwards too.

Montour is another that was tossed aside for less than what was traded for.


So you want to give Buffalo credit for 1st round players developing and all the other players that didnt develop dont count.

 

[CowbellConray]

Thompson has developed way past potential
Tuch became a ppg player here
Rousek has developed into an NHL role player
Peterka has been ahead of projections
Quinn was supposed to be carried by Rossi, not the other way around
Samuelson was a bottom 4 projection who is not a top 4 option
We’ve at least developed Levi and UPL to functional tenders, meanwhile we lose Portillo who is struggling as a pro
We have a plethora of prospects all developing well, all along traditional or accelerated timelines
Even players we’ve dealt do well: Eichel was great here, just not a timing and culture fit
Reinhart was developed here
McCabe was developed here

There are functional issues with our team, but player development is at worst average in this league

 

[toddkaz]

They're all 1st rders and they're "supposed to develop" per post #1745.

Yes, statistically speaking first round players make the NHL but when it comes down to it most 1st round picks Buffalo drafted never reached past their potential.

If you want to claim a team is great at developing talent then show me later round players that make the NHL.

 

[CowbellConray]

So what you are saying is they didn't develop any talent between rounds 3-7 and players who were developed were first round draft picks that become NHL players.

Teams must be examining how the sabres develop players cause no first round players turn into stars on their own on other teams.

and picks round 3-7 other teams don't develop either. Oh wait other teams do have late round picks on their roster.

So in the end you are saying Sabres are really good at developing 1st round picks but if they aren't first round picks they were trash and werent going to develop anyways. Give me a break.

Is Cozens on your list of players developed? Cause he is going backwards too.

Do we want to go player by player for the past 5 draft to determine efficiency? I’m happy to if you would like we can go into the nuance of each pick against each round.

For example, Bryson is technically a development success. Drafted as an overage, Has the 4th most games played from his draft year and draft round, will player 250+ games in the NHL. So his pick, in relation to those picked around him is a technical success you define it against comparable.

 

[toddkaz]

Thompson has developed way past potential
Tuch became a ppg player here
Rousek has developed into an NHL role player
Peterka has been ahead of projections
Quinn was supposed to be carried by Rossi, not the other way around
Samuelson was a bottom 4 projection who is not a top 4 option
We’ve at least developed Levi and UPL to functional tenders, meanwhile we lose Portillo who is struggling as a pro
We have a plethora of prospects all developing well, all along traditional or accelerated timelines
Even players we’ve dealt do well: Eichel was great here, just not a timing and culture fit
Reinhart was developed here
McCabe was developed here

There are functional issues with our team, but player development is at worst average in this league

Wait, so Levi has already developed into an NHL goalie? You are already giving Rousek a roster spot on the team? Yikes.

If you want to give credit for Tuch then Reinhart's best season was the first season after he left Buffalo. You want to take credit both ways.

Do we want to go player by player for the past 5 draft to determine efficiency? I’m happy to if you would like we can go into the nuance of each pick against each round.

For example, Bryson is technically a development success. Drafted as an overage, Has the 4th most games played from his draft year and draft round, will player 250+ games in the NHL. So his pick, in relation to those picked around him is a technical success you define it against comparable.

No, I am comparing the success rate of the Buffalo Sabres to other teams. There is nothing great about development going on here that doesn't go on with other teams and my point is there is no development with draft picks round 3-7 past the NHL average.

 

[Dirty Dog]

They're all 1st rders and they're "supposed to develop" per post #1745.

Anyone who thinks all first rounders are supposed to develop doesn’t have a good understanding of the draft

And anyone who is pointing to 3-7 rounders for this current regime doesn’t understand that those players have all just been drafted and it’s too soon to tell. But there’s a lot of positive development, just too soon though to state anything

 

[toddkaz]

Anyone who thinks all first rounders are supposed to develop doesn’t have a good understanding of the draft

And anyone who is pointing to 3-7 rounders for this current regime doesn’t understand that those players have all just been drafted and it’s too soon to tell. But there’s a lot of positive development, just too soon though to state anything

So basically your theory is

They developed because Buffalo developed them
They didn't develop well thats because they were late rounders and they weren't suppose to make the NHL anyways(Even though thats the whole point at being great at developing NHL talent)

Do you have statistics on Buffalo developing 1st round players better or more than other teams or are you just guessing???

I haven't seen you post 1 statistic that says Buffalo develops players more than any other NHL team.

Can you back up with what you are saying with any sort of statistics at all?

 

[CowbellConray]

Wait, so Levi has already developed into an NHL goalie? You are already giving Rousek a roster spot on the team? Yikes.

No, I am comparing the success rate of the Buffalo Sabres to other teams. There is nothing great about development going on here that doesn't go on with other teams and my point is there is no development with draft picks round 3-7 past the NHL average.

Cmon, don’t be obtuse in how I’m explaining my stance. Levi has been a development success, and is a functional tender at this point in time. Winning right now is different than development. He is a top young prospect trying to crack through the NHL barrier, that doesn’t mean he isn’t a development success. We’re splitting hairs if we are arguing functional against NHL starter

Rousek can play in the NHL. He was a 6th round pick who is a functional forward in the league. Just because we aren’t winning with him in the lineup doesn’t mean he isn’t worthy of a shot at a big club.

How is comparing Bryson against those around him not comparing the Sabres against other teams? I asked if you wanted to go through the last few drafts to directly compare against other teams and you said no. The Sabres have been great at cultivating young talent. Is that development? You can’t develop what you don’t have or procure. So do we give credit for the Sabres targeting and procuring players with potential?

Why is it important if we develop 3-7 round
Players well if we do really well with 1-2 round players? Is there a reason we can’t be average in one facet of development but great in 3 others? I’d like to understand what you define development as to really break down the stance

 

[Dirty Dog]

Are you ok? You seem to be raging.

Nice try, but lol

So what you are saying is they didn't develop any talent between rounds 3-7 and players who were developed were first round draft picks that become NHL players.

Adams first draft was in 2020, so for most of the late picks it is just too early to tell. But there’s a ton of positive development up and down these drafts. From home runs like peterka in the 2nd, to later rounders like neuchev and novikov already in the AhL

So in the end you are saying Sabres are really good at developing 1st round picks but if they aren't first round picks they were trash and werent going to develop anyways. Give me a break.

Something no one has ever said

Is Cozens on your list of players developed? Cause he is going backwards too.

Montour is another that was tossed aside for less than what was traded for.

You’re all over the place

So you want to give Buffalo credit for 1st round players developing and all the other players that didnt develop dont count.

Again, something no one has ever said. I think you’re making things up to argue with

No, I am comparing the success rate of the Buffalo Sabres to other teams.

Ummm, no you didn’t. You just Sabres are bad and other teams good. There is no depth to anything you say, much less comparing success rates

There is nothing great about development going on here that doesn't go on with other teams and my point is there is no development with draft picks round 3-7 past the NHL average.

How many late rounders do you think have made the NHL that have been drafted while Adams has been our GM? I don’t think you understand NHL drafting very well

 

[toddkaz]

Nice try, but lol



Adams first draft was in 2020, so for most of the late picks it is just too early to tell. But there’s a ton of positive development up and down these drafts. From home runs like peterka in the 2nd, to later rounders like neuchev and novikov already in the AhL



Something no one has ever said



You’re all over the place



Again, something no one has ever said. I think you’re making things up to argue with




Ummm, no you didn’t. You just Sabres are bad and other teams good. There is no depth to anything you say, much less comparing success rates



How many late rounders do you think have made the NHL that have been drafted while Adams has been our GM? I don’t think you understand NHL drafting very well

So you provided zero links to where Buffalo develops NHL players better than other teams. So basically you are just speaking our of your ass.

Teams like Tampa, Detroit, Colorado who draft and develop players past just the 1st round are ones that are great at developing players. I would even put St. Louis and Nashville in there. They get players outside the first round and develop them past expectations.

You are right again. Buffalo is so awesome at developing players we missed the playoffs 15 years in a row and our bottom 6 is a trainwreck. Awesome!

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Yes, statistically speaking first round players make the NHL but when it comes down to it most 1st round picks Buffalo drafted never reached past their potential.

If you want to claim a team is great at developing talent then show me later round players that make the NHL.

I think a better argument is not that Buffalo is developing players at a higher/better rate throughout the draft, but that they have been hitting on the higher picks at a better rate. You have to go back to Murray's Nylander pick for a flat out wasted 1st rd pick. Pretty much every 1st or 2nd rd pick since then has turned out really well, and "hit" at a much better rate than league average (around 70% for 1st rd picks, 25% for 2nd rd picks).

You, OTOH, are going too far the other way suggesting that Buffalo isn't doing anything well with those top picks. They are...they're picking the right players, at least since Botterill and after. Development might not be the cause, but selecting the best players is a big deal in and of itself. That 70% success rate for 1st rd picks is just for players that play even one single game. We have Mittelstadt, Cozens, Quinn, Rosen, and any/all of Savoie, Ostlund, and Kulich, and Benson as non 1OA picks that are or are likely to be much bigger impact players than just playing a single game.

 

[Dirty Dog]

So basically your theory is

They developed because Buffalo developed them
They didn't develop well thats because they were late rounders and they weren't suppose to make the NHL anyways(Even though thats the whole point at being great at developing NHL talent)

Do you have statistics on Buffalo developing 1st round players better or more than other teams or are you just guessing???

I haven't seen you post 1 statistic that says Buffalo develops players more than any other NHL team.

Can you back up with what you are saying with any sort of statistics at all?

Lol what statistics are you looking for? He has been here for four drafts, i don’t think you could come up with a statistic to judge success rate for first rounders, much less late rounders. It is too soon for any statistic to matter.

I don’t think you understand statistics either

Though we can all say their first rounders have enjoyed extremely positive development across the board. Here are his first rounders:

Quinn
Power
Rosen
Savoie
Ostlund
Kulich
Benson

Dude may end up with a 100% hit rate on seven straight first rounders. Which is absurdly successful.

So you provided zero links to where Buffalo develops NHL players better than other teams. So basically you are just speaking our of your ass.

Teams like Tampa, Detroit, Colorado who draft and develop players past just the 1st round are ones that are great at developing players. I would even put St. Louis and Nashville in there. They get players outside the first round and develop them past expectations.

You are right again. Buffalo is so awesome at developing players we missed the playoffs 15 years in a row and our bottom 6 is a trainwreck. Awesome!

I am starting to think you don’t even know the Sabres switched front offices less than four years ago.

And why do you keep rambling about links and statistics. You don’t provide any, and the time frame for these four drafts isn’t going to be addressed by any statistic worth anything

 

[toddkaz]

I think a better argument is not that Buffalo is developing players at a higher/better rate throughout the draft, but that they have been hitting on the higher picks at a better rate. You have to go back to Murray's Nylander pick for a flat out wasted 1st rd pick. Pretty much every 1st or 2nd rd pick since then has turned out really well, and "hit" at a much better rate than league average (around 70% for 1st rd picks, 25% for 2nd rd picks).

You, OTOH, are going too far the other way suggesting that Buffalo isn't doing anything well with those top picks. They are...they're picking the right players, at least since Botterill and after. Development might not be the cause, but selecting the best players is a big deal in and of itself. That 70% success rate for 1st rd picks is just for players that play even one single game. We have Mittelstadt, Cozens, Quinn, and any/all of Savoie, Ostlund, and Kulich as non 1OA picks that are or are likely to be much bigger impact players than just playing a single game.

I would agree with you there. I think some posters here have a false understanding between drafting players and developing players.

Drafting a first round talent who is expect to make the NHL is one thing.

Drafting 2-7 and finding players in other leagues and developing them into NHL players is what to me developing players means.

Lol what statistics are you looking for? He has been here for four drafts, i don’t think you could come up with a statistic to judge success rate for first rounders, much less late rounders. It is too soon for any statistic to matter.

I don’t think you understand statistics either

Though we can all say their first rounders have enjoyed extremely positive development across the board. Here are his first rounders:

Quinn
Power
Rosen
Savoie
Ostlund
Kulich
Benson

Dude may end up with a 100% hit rate on seven straight frost rounders. Which is absurdly successful.



I am starting to think you don’t even know the Sabres switched front offices less than four years ago.

And why do you keep rambling about links and statistics. You don’t provide any, and the time frame for these four drafts isn’t going to be addressed by any statistic worth anything

Its clear you don't know the difference between scouting/drafting players and developing players.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I would agree with you there. I think some posters here have a false understanding between drafting players and developing players.

Drafting a first round talent who is expect to make the NHL is one thing.

Drafting 2-7 and finding players in other leagues and developing them into NHL players is what to me developing players means.

Its clear you don't know the difference between scouting/drafting players and developing players.

Ohhhh, you want to play that game? They developed a first line center in Tage Thompson out of their ass. Has any other team during this time frame developed a first line center from a player like that, that they inherited?

Oh wait, they also did it with Mitts! A different player they inherited that has blossomed under them.


Buddy, your arguments aren’t good. Show me another team that pulled two top 6 centers out of nowhere

That’s what you call, damn good development.

 

[toddkaz]

Ohhhh, you want to play that game? They developed a first line center in Tage Thompson out of their ass. Has any other team during this time frame developed a first line center from a player like that, that they inherited?

Oh wait, they also did it with Mitts! A different player they inherited that has blossomed under them.


Buddy, your arguments aren’t good. Show me another team that pulled two top 6 centers out of nowhere

That’s what you call, damn good development.

Oh yes that game where I mentioned players from rounds 2-7 since the beginning of my posts and you said they were trash and weren't NHL players anyways(Which defeats the whole development schtick you been pushing)

Then you mention 1st round players and I ask you to tell me what non first round players they developed.

You know like how Tampa, Detroit, Nashville, Colorado does it.

And then you started raging with exclamation marks and emojis.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

Oh yes that game where I mentioned players from rounds 2-7 since the beginning of my posts and you said they were trash and weren't NHL players anyways(Which defeats the whole development schtick you been pushing)

Then you mention 1st round players and I ask you to tell me what non first round players they developed.

You know like how Tampa, Detroit, Nashville, Colorado does it.

And then you started raging with exclamation marks and emojis.

What players were drafted in the past four years are playing on those teams right now?

So therefore you cannot use Kuch and Point for Tampa, Josi for Nashville, Lidstrom and Federov and Datsyuk and Zetterberg for Detroit or whatever for Colorado.

You can only use players from the last four years to make your point for your criticism of Adams and the Sabres development to be valid.

So… go!

 

[Dirty Dog]

Oh yes that game where I mentioned players from rounds 2-7 since the beginning of my posts and you said they were trash and weren't NHL players anyways(Which defeats the whole development schtick you been pushing)

Then you mention 1st round players and I ask you to tell me what non first round players they developed.

You know like how Tampa, Detroit, Nashville, Colorado does it.

And then you started raging with exclamation marks and emojis.

No one has raged against you, please don’t start being a victim.

I have said repeatedly that looking at success rates of 3-7 rounders in only the last 4 years would be a silly thing to do. But the Sabres appear to be on their way to have some good hits and there is a ton of positive development. You haven’t seemed to able to grasp this no matter how many people explain this to you.

 

[CowbellConray]

Oh yes that game where I mentioned players from rounds 2-7 since the beginning of my posts and you said they were trash and weren't NHL players anyways(Which defeats the whole development schtick you been pushing)

Then you mention 1st round players and I ask you to tell me what non first round players they developed.

You know like how Tampa, Detroit, Nashville, Colorado does it.

And then you started raging with exclamation marks and emojis.

I mean, you did say round 3-7 development is important, then call out the lightning who agave two impact 3rd rounders on their team, drafted since 2014: Point and Cirelli. And, they have ZERO players on their team in impact roles drafted in the 4th round or later in the last 13 years…. They had Colton, who they traded, and Palat, from 12 years ago.

Detroit has one guy on their team from rounds 4-7 right now, Soderblum, and that’s IT. They have signed talent, but aren’t a good reference to development.

Nashville has Parsinen from the past 7 drafts rounds 3-7 and that’s it

Colorado has zero players drafted from rounds 3-7 on their team currently

So what point are you trying to compare to with these teams? None of them currently draft and develop late round talent

In fact, the Lightning and Colorado are BUILT on first and second round picks, and really built on top 5 picks.

 

[Dirty Dog]

If anything, our hits alone in Kulich (late first) and Peterka (2nd rounder) are impressive at this point being four years into a team’s front office tenure

 

[Chainshot]

Back on topic folks.