Prospect Info: C/RW Matthew Savoie, 9th Overall, 2022 NHL Draft - Traded to Moose Jaw 1/4/24

[Snippit]

It's easy. If he looks good in camp he gets a 9 game trial. If he still looks good, you keep playing him to Christmas and if he starts slowing down, send him back to the WJC and then the Ice for the rest of the season (before he plays 40 games so he doesn't accrue a season towards FA).

One advantage of keeping Savoie and Kulich down an extra year? You slide their ELC so that it ends exactly when Jeff Skinner's contract expires.

 

[Selanne00008]

i'm torn. He turned 19 recently, so it's young for his size yes.

I think it really depends on how camp goes. IFKYK kind of deal.
He's 5'9", could be 5'10" when all said and done. Brad Marchand is 5'9", Caufield 5'7".

 

[Der Jaeger]

You're trying to make a joke, but the funny thing is your right. He absolutely needs to hold our prospects at lower developmental levels longer, until they are better developed and more NHL ready. In the meantime he needs to spend some assets, including cash on real NHL players to support the core that IS ready for the NHL.

There are are couple posters on this board who know what level of youth hockey I coach at, and the type of coaches I get my training from. Believe me, I’m not about rushing any prospect.

But at some point, you can’t keep a player from a level. Savoie is fast approaching that point.

He on the exact same timeline as Sam Reinhart, if we’re interested in comparing players and rushing prospects. And Savoie has done a lot more in his D+1 year than Reinhart.

 

[PatLaFontaineASMR]

You're trying to make a joke, but the funny thing is your right. He absolutely needs to hold our prospects at lower developmental levels longer, until they are better developed and more NHL ready. In the meantime he needs to spend some assets, including cash on real NHL players to support the core that IS ready for the NHL.

It's hard to develop your game when you already mastered the level your playing at. Savoie isn't gonna learn anything new tearing it up against teenagers for another year.

 

[beerme1]

I'm the farthest from someone who talks about jumping up (or over) a level. And I think he's really close to ready and wouldn't be surprised if he has a spot on the Sabres next year. I've watched most of his games since December and what he's doing now is very much pro game stuff - give and goes, center lane drives with and without the puck, using his burst to create ice for himself and others - and he's doing it while being the Ice best shutdown option. They're not using the Ostapchuk line for that, they're not using Geekie for that... they're using Savoie for it and he's chewing up his opposite number defensively almost every night.

You don't say. So here we are with yet another example of a kid who can't go where he should.
I understand the league rights etc. but there should be exceptions to the rule. Someone mentioned a covid exception. Is that a thing?

 

[Ehran]

You don't say. So here we are with yet another example of a kid who can't go where he should.
I understand the league rights etc. but there should be exceptions to the rule. Someone mentioned a covid exception. Is that a thing?

So back when the CHL shut down for a year due to COVID there were exemptions granted so that players under 20 could play in the AHL.

Players that have played in major juniors FOR FOUR SEASONS can under normal circumstances get exemptions to play in the AHL even if they haven't quite hit 20 years old yet.

Some players, and I believe Savoie qualifies, would have played 4 seasons in major juniors IF the CHL hadn't shut down for COVID. Savoie would be eligible for the AHL under normal circumstances.

EDIT: When the CHL / WHL shut down for the '20-21 season, Savoie went to the USHL since he wasn't even 18 then. He started with the Winnipeg Ice in the '19-20 season, so if things had been normal he would be finishing up his 4th major junior season this spring.
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The thinking is that it's unfair to these players to block them from going pro (and thus earning money) as they normally could, because their employer shut down. And since exemptions were already granted during COVID shut downs that additional ones should be granted this summer as well.

I think many normal companies would file suit for these exemptions to be granted but the NHL, CHL, etc., (and the good-old-boys hockey networks) have always had each other's backs for so long, the NHL would frown on a team trying to force exemptions.

So, and this is just my personal opinion, some affected player will file suit this summer and force the situation. And I would think they would have a very good case.

So, are exemptions a thing? No, not really. Although the precedent was set when exemptions were granted during COVID, in my opinion.

We'll see what happens.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Would Savoie be allowed to stay in Buffalo, go to the WJCs and if not NHL ready go to Rochester once he turns 20 in January? Not ideal since that would mean he isn't ready for a full time NHL gig but I would think half a season in the AHL and 3 months with the Sabres+WJC would be better then him spending an entire season in the WHL again

 

[Chainshot]

Would Savoie be allowed to stay in Buffalo, go to the WJCs and if not NHL ready go to Rochester once he turns 20 in January? Not ideal since that would mean he isn't ready for a full time NHL gig but I would think half a season in the AHL and 3 months with the Sabres+WJC would be better then him spending an entire season in the WHL again

I like the outside the box thinking, but the rule is that the player has to be 20 by Dec. 31st of the season in question, not just 20. I like @HOOats line of thinking, that they use an arbitrator to show that he's put in the required seasons since he would have been playing in the WHL if not for COVID shuttering the league.

 

[Bendium]

You don't say. So here we are with yet another example of a kid who can't go where he should.
I understand the league rights etc. but there should be exceptions to the rule. Someone mentioned a covid exception. Is that a thing?

The easiest way around this is to stop drafting in the top 15.

 

[Bendium]

There are are couple posters on this board who know what level of youth hockey I coach at, and the type of coaches I get my training from. Believe me, I’m not about rushing any prospect.

But at some point, you can’t keep a player from a level. Savoie is fast approaching that point.

He on the exact same timeline as Sam Reinhart, if we’re interested in comparing players and rushing prospects. And Savoie has done a lot more in his D+1 year than Reinhart.

I agree he may be ready to move on from the CHL, but we disagree that the NHL is the right place for a 5'9" 180 lb 19 year old.

If they can get a waiver to get him to the AHL, I will applaud that all day long.

Also, the consideration isn't just Savoie, it is also the rest of the NHL club that is trying to improve their winning percentage, would be better helped having a Vet possession/ penalty killer type in that 3rd-4th line winger spot instead of an undersized newbie you have to protect.

 

[truthbluth]

I agree he may be ready to move on from the CHL, but we disagree that the NHL is the right place for a 5'9" 180 lb 19 year old.

If they can get a waiver to get him to the AHL, I will applaud that all day long.

Also, the consideration isn't just Savoie, it is also the rest of the NHL club that is trying to improve their winning percentage, would be better helped having a Vet possession/ penalty killer type in that 3rd-4th line winger spot instead of an undersized newbie you have to protect.

This continues to be a weird argument, based in hypotheticals as if a specific philosophy alone should dictate roster decisions, but, I’d trust a 5’9” 180lb 19 year old in the NHL at least as much as a 6’1” 185lb (Quinn’s measurements) 20 year old to be physically ready for the NHL. Savoie isn’t exactly slight. I’d trust Chain more than me on this, but I don’t typically see him getting worked over along the boards. He has the correct build for a short player and I believe he’d hold up fine if the coaches and management, who are in lockstep, think he’s ready and more likely to contribute to team success than some 4th line plug, which they may or may not.

 

[Jim Bob]

I agree he may be ready to move on from the CHL, but we disagree that the NHL is the right place for a 5'9" 180 lb 19 year old.

If they can get a waiver to get him to the AHL, I will applaud that all day long.

Also, the consideration isn't just Savoie, it is also the rest of the NHL club that is trying to improve their winning percentage, would be better helped having a Vet possession/ penalty killer type in that 3rd-4th line winger spot instead of an undersized newbie you have to protect.

If you go by the listed height and weight on their team's websites, Savoie is 6 lbs heavier and one inch shorter than Kulich this season.

If you look at the measurables, Savoie is not significantly smaller than Kulich, Rosen, or Kisakov. I think he would be just as "pro ready" next season as those three were this year. And most likely more so.

 

[Bendium]

This continues to be a weird argument, based in hypotheticals as if a specific philosophy alone should dictate roster decisions, but, I’d trust a 5’9” 180lb 19 year old in the NHL at least as much as a 6’1” 185lb (Quinn’s measurements) 20 year old to be physically ready for the NHL. Savoie isn’t exactly slight. I’d trust Chain more than me on this, but I don’t typically see him getting worked over along the boards. He has the correct build for a short player and I believe he’d hold up fine if the coaches and management, who are in lockstep, think he’s ready and more likely to contribute to team success than some 4th line plug, which they may or may not.

Your right in that he does have the right build for a shorter player. He is stocky, not slight. That said, as far as him not getting worked over along the boards, the CHL is not a physical league, and Savoie is not giving up 20-30 lbs on the players around him like he would in the NHL.

Also, I am on record that I didn't think Quinn was ready this year either and should have spent another year in the AHL getting stronger and learning to play more effectively against men. The playoffs last year showed that. His point totals came from his NHL level shot, but that was the only part of his game that was NHL ready, and they should have waited another year to get other parts of his game ready for the jump.

 

[DapperCam]

If he needs to play against adults and not teenagers can he go to Europe? Matthews went to play in the Swiss league.

 

[Jim Bob]

If he needs to play against adults and not teenagers can he go to Europe? Matthews went to play in the Swiss league.

It would depend on the contract he signed with the Ice.

That is the thing that most people forget. Players in the CHL sign contracts with their teams. That is why the AHL rules exist. Just like Europeans that have contracts with their club teams that restrict movement, players in Major Juniors have contracts that affect player movement.

Matthews did not play Major Junior and was free to sign with a European team for his draft year season.

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

I may be in the minority here, but I still hold that the long-term development of Quinn, and especially JJP would have been better served with them both in the AHL this last year. We are accelerating development to fill needs, and it hurts development. I do not want to see Savoie in the NHL next season. If that means Juniors, so be it. AHL the season after, and then we see where we are at. But 2 years juniors, and 2 years AHL is not at all slowing down the development of an undersized forward. Its right on target to be pushing for a NHL spot in year 5.

Your one size fits all doesn’t work for somebody with Savoie’s talent. His skill level is off the charts.

 

[Chainshot]

Interesting roster talk, can we steer more toward Savoie or use the quote function to shift things into the roster or general prospects threads?

If he needs to play against adults and not teenagers can he go to Europe? Matthews went to play in the Swiss league.

There is the difference in how the game is played in various European leagues and there is also the culture shock of going overseas to live to consider. It isn't necessarily a "need" IMO that he play against adults, maybe it's something they consider, but it probably is more that if he doesn't make the team and if they don't apply to have the 5th season counted from his USHL participation in the COVID year, that he goes back to the Ice. And a small piece of it would also be Hockey Canada's reaction - do they hold it against him for not staying home - when it comes to U20 selection if he was to leave the CHL for some other destination not in the NHL?

 

[elchud]

Savoie makes sense if Olofsson is out and I hope he is out. If Okposo is out, add a veteran winger with some punch or a center. Bjugstad Compher Acciari Hathaway Gaudrea Monahan Haula there are options. Why does 75% of the roster need to be 25 or younger?

 

[elchud]

I do tentatively predict that Savoie will be on the Sabres next season, taking Olofssons spot. Mitts/Krebs/Savoie should be a really good line, unless they mess it up and put Greenway with Krebs and Savoie.

 

[Chainshot]

Some interesting debate points regarding the roster and direction for a lot more than just Savoie, so those posts are now over in the Roster Thread (Roster thread: Get To Work).

 

[Der Jaeger]

I agree he may be ready to move on from the CHL, but we disagree that the NHL is the right place for a 5'9" 180 lb 19 year old.

If they can get a waiver to get him to the AHL, I will applaud that all day long.

Also, the consideration isn't just Savoie, it is also the rest of the NHL club that is trying to improve their winning percentage, would be better helped having a Vet possession/ penalty killer type in that 3rd-4th line winger spot instead of an undersized newbie you have to protect.

Your points on size are 180 out from how the NHL is trending. Smaller players are making a bigger impact because of their talents. Kent Johnson, who I saw in person last month, is 170 pounds soaking wet. But he's very skilled and skates well.

The days of the 3rd and 4th line grinders are going away. Every USA Hockey and Hockey Canada trend show it. Boston, Tampa, and Toronto are gearing up for war, but in 3-5 years, those types of 3rd and 4th lines are going to get skated around, pylon style.

 

[Selanne00008]

If you go by the listed height and weight on their team's websites, Savoie is 6 lbs heavier and one inch shorter than Kulich this season.

If you look at the measurables, Savoie is not significantly smaller than Kulich, Rosen, or Kisakov. I think he would be just as "pro ready" next season as those three were this year. And most likely more so.

One could even argue they'd rather have the inch shorter, 6 pound heavier built Savoie than Kulich's frame..

Could be 187 lbs. 6 months from now as well.

 

[Jim Bob]

One could even argue they'd rather have the inch shorter, 6 pound heavier built Savoie than Kulich's frame..

Could be 187 lbs. 6 months from now as well.

How each guy shows up at camp will be a factor in where they play next season.

 

[Chainshot]

How each guy shows up at camp will be a factor in where they play next season.

I'm hopeful for Savoie having the full summer to train without restrictions due to injury recovery like last year.

 

[Bendium]

Your points on size are 180 out from how the NHL is trending. Smaller players are making a bigger impact because of their talents. Kent Johnson, who I saw in person last month, is 170 pounds soaking wet. But he's very skilled and skates well.

The days of the 3rd and 4th line grinders are going away. Every USA Hockey and Hockey Canada trend show it. Boston, Tampa, and Toronto are gearing up for war, but in 3-5 years, those types of 3rd and 4th lines are going to get skated around, pylon style.

I believe that will be a phase, when the few teams holding onto larger more physical teams keep winning the cup. It will swing back.