C Quinton Byfield (2020, 2nd, LAK) part IV

[Random Comment]

So stutzle has been 39 points in 36 games stutzle since he came into the league eh? JFC this place

The posters point is that he probably isn’t where he is today if he was drafted by the kings because he wouldn’t have been given the ice time or opportunities to develop into the player he currently is. That’s very much a fair take

Byfield was always seen as more of a project than Stutzle. That was fact from day 1. Stutzle wouldn’t have followed the same path if drafted by LA, end of story. To be curious whether Stutzle would even crack the lineup is hilarious.

I can’t mind read the mind of OP - if they wanted to wonder if Stutzle would be a point per game player right now is one question, but not the one they were asking.

 

[Pavels Dog]

HFboards has spoken.

He's 14th in points from that draft this season. Sure, his tools and upside probably land him above some of the guys ahead, but you also have Rossi, Reichel, Drysdale, Holtz etc. behind him..

 

[ponder]

That may be true, but Thompson was a late 1st and Wheeler was a 5th overall without all that much talent taken behind him.
Right now Byfield may not go top 10 in a re-draft.

I mean, they were all first round picks forwards with amazing size and skill, but raw games, on draft day. Tage, in his 24 year old season and before, wasn't doing much at the NHL level, broke out in his 25 year old season, and is now a borderline superstar in his 26 year old season. Wheeler first played in the NHL in his 22 year old season, was immediately solid but not great, hit 50+ points for the first time in his 25 year old season (with 64), and just kinda gradually improved from there, hitting his peak in his 31 and 32 year old season. My point is, if you judge players like this (huge forwards, incredible tools, but raw games when young) based on NHL production in their early 20s, you're often going to get it really wrong.

As for "right now Byfield may not go top 10 in a re-draft", I'm sure that's true for some people, but I'll bet you it wouldn't be true for most NHL GMs. IMO, the only guy from the 2020 draft who's a no-brainer pick over Byfield right now is Stutzle. Certainly you can argue for guys like Raymond, Laf, Lundell, Drysdale, Sanderson, Jarvis, Perfetti, Mercer, Guhle, Schneider, Quinn, Reichel, etc. over Byfield, they're all safer picks, but I can see the argument for Byfield over any of those guys too. Depends on your risk tolerance, and how much you believe in Byfield's abilities. Some will put him outside the top 10, some will put him as high as 2nd, I'd guess most NHL GMs would have him somewhere in the middle (think 4-8ish), but it's very much a guess.

 

[Random Comment]

I mean, they were all first round picks forwards with amazing size and skill, but raw games, on draft day. Tage, in his 24 year old season and before, wasn't doing much at the NHL level, broke out in his 25 year old season, and is now a borderline superstar in his 26 year old season. Wheeler first played in the NHL in his 22 year old season, was immediately solid but not great, hit 50+ points for the first time in his 25 year old season (with 64), and just kinda gradually improved from there, hitting his peak in his 31 and 32 year old season. My point is, if you judge players like this (huge forwards, incredible tools, but raw games when young) based on NHL production in their early 20s, you're often going to get it really wrong.

As for "right now Byfield may not go top 10 in a re-draft", I'm sure that's true for some people, but I'll bet you it wouldn't be true for most NHL GMs. IMO, the only guy from the 2020 draft who's a no-brainer pick over Byfield right now is Stutzle. Certainly you can argue for guys like Raymond, Laf, Lundell, Drysdale, Sanderson, Jarvis, Perfetti, Mercer, Guhle, Schneider, Quinn, Reichel, etc. over Byfield, they're all safer picks, but I can see the argument for Byfield over any of those guys too. Depends on your risk tolerance, and how much you believe in Byfield's abilities. Some will put him outside the top 10, some will put him as high as 2nd, I'd guess most NHL GMs would have him somewhere in the middle (think 4-8ish), but it's very much a guess.

Byfield was always picked on potential. And that hasn’t changed since the draft. If you watch the games he’s played, you see glimpses of why he was drafted so high. His board play sometimes is ridiculous. The goal he scored on Pp where he got puck in front of net and backed up into slot with spin shot was wicked.

Would Stutzle go ahead of him in redraft? Yes. Does that mean Byfield can’t develop to be as good as Stutzle or maybe better in years to come ? No. Byfield still has huge potential and I myself would not redraft him outside of top 5, let alone top 10. Not yet at least!

I also don’t like the Tage comparisons. That story is wild and unique.

 

[surixon]

Still far too soon to say who should and shouldn't have been drafted where. We aren't even a full three years past that draft. Need to give it another 3 or so years.

 

[KapG]

Byfield was always seen as more of a project than Stutzle. That was fact from day 1. Stutzle wouldn’t have followed the same path if drafted by LA, end of story. To be curious whether Stutzle would even crack the lineup is hilarious.

I can’t mind read the mind of OP - if they wanted to wonder if Stutzle would be a point per game player right now is one question, but not the one they were asking.

All the evidence states otherwise but you keep on thinking that.

 

[DrSense]

All the evidence states otherwise but you keep on thinking that.

He was definitely considered more of a project.
- depth player on Canada's WJC team
- one of the youngest players in the draft, If he was born a month later he is a 2021 draftee. He is only like 8 week older than Kent Johnson and many of the other 2021 draftees like McTavish, Beniers, and Power - all were late '02s.
- great skills, but was still taking advantage of the man child nature of his stature in the O

The term project appeared in most of his prospect profiles. Byfield has always been more about projection than how good he is right now. It typically takes bigger guy a while to come into their own (Tage Thompson)

2020 NHL Draft Profile No. 2: Quinton Byfield

The 2020 draft has had an established front-runner in Alexis Lafrenier...

canucksarmy.com

 

[Osprey]

I still think that he should've stayed in the AHL for longer. His 3 points and -2 in 9 games since being called up aren't better than his 3 points and -1 in 8 games before being sent down. He may look a little better and more confident, but most Kings players have looked better and more confident since they got on this hot streak, so it's hard to tell if it's because of that, confirmation bias or the AHL stint. Either way, he was doing so well in the AHL that there was no reason to end it, IMO. I just don't understand why Kings management is so eager to fit him into the NHL (now at wing) instead of letting him be a top scorer (and center) where he could be.

 

[BringTheReign]

He was definitely considered more of a project.
- depth player on Canada's WJC team
- one of the youngest players in the draft, If he was born a month later he is a 2021 draftee. He is only like 8 week older than Kent Johnson and many of the other 2021 draftees like McTavish, Beniers, and Power - all were late '02s.
- great skills, but was still taking advantage of the man child nature of his stature in the O

The term project appeared in most of his prospect profiles. Byfield has always been more about projection than how good he is right now. It typically takes bigger guy a while to come into their own (Tage Thompson)

2020 NHL Draft Profile No. 2: Quinton Byfield

The 2020 draft has had an established front-runner in Alexis Lafrenier...

canucksarmy.com

Good post. Blake Wheeler is another recent example I can think of. Bigger guys like Getzlaf and Carter also didn't play their rookie years until 20 and 21 years old respectively. Byfield just turned 20 right before the season started. Joe Thornton is brought up a bit too, but I feel like you should always pump the brakes if your comparison is to a no doubt 1st ballot HHoFer.

I think we all hope he would've had a bigger impact by now, but he's got plenty of time to develop still. He's looking great on Kopi's wing currently.

 

[KapG]

He was definitely considered more of a project.
- depth player on Canada's WJC team
- one of the youngest players in the draft, If he was born a month later he is a 2021 draftee. He is only like 8 week older than Kent Johnson and many of the other 2021 draftees like McTavish, Beniers, and Power - all were late '02s.
- great skills, but was still taking advantage of the man child nature of his stature in the O

The term project appeared in most of his prospect profiles. Byfield has always been more about projection than how good he is right now. It typically takes bigger guy a while to come into their own (Tage Thompson)

2020 NHL Draft Profile No. 2: Quinton Byfield

The 2020 draft has had an established front-runner in Alexis Lafrenier...

canucksarmy.com

The point is there is zero evidence with the way the kings have handled all of their prospects the last decade to suggest the kings would have given stutzle top 6 minutes to start his career. That’s all I’m saying!

 

[Akrapovince]

The point is there is zero evidence with the way the kings have handled all of their prospects the last decade to suggest the kings would have given stutzle top 6 minutes to start his career. That’s all I’m saying!

Even in the unlikeliness that he was automatically inserted top six on a playoff team with a deep group of forwards, how much rope does he have before he’s sent down or sheltered to minimal ice time?

People, myself included, have fallen in love with Stützle. Do we not remember all the defensive lapses, giveaways and growing pains he had prior to last year?

He was able to iron those growing pains out on the Senators. That would not fly on a competitive LA Kings team. If Fiala didn’t get that much rope, neither would a rookie Stützle.

 

[Conbon]

I still think that he should've stayed in the AHL for longer. His 3 points and -2 in 9 games since being called up aren't better than his 3 points and -1 in 8 games before being sent down. He may look a little better and more confident, but most Kings players have looked better and more confident since they got on this hot streak, so it's hard to tell if it's because of that, confirmation bias or the AHL stint. Either way, he was doing so well in the AHL that there was no reason to end it, IMO. I just don't understand why Kings management is so eager to make a bottom-six grinder out of him instead of letting him play and develop as a top-6 scorer.

Weird time for this comment considering he's been playing line 1 PP2 since he was called up

 

[JTeller97]

To me, the argument between Stutzle and QB is still the same. If both guys hit their absolute ceiling Byfield will be the more valuable player, with that said though Stutzle is a more sure bet to hit it as he's already a quality producer.

 

[KapG]

Even in the unlikeliness that he was automatically inserted top six on a playoff team with a deep group of forwards, how much rope does he have before he’s sent down or sheltered to minimal ice time?

People, myself included, have fallen in love with Stützle. Do we not remember all the defensive lapses, giveaways and growing pains he had prior to last year?

He was able to iron those growing pains out on the Senators. That would not fly on a competitive LA Kings team. If Fiala didn’t get that much rope, neither would a rookie Stützle.

Finally a non kings fan with some common sense. Thank you.

 

[Random Comment]

Finally a non kings fan with some common sense. Thank you.

R

Even in the unlikeliness that he was automatically inserted top six on a playoff team with a deep group of forwards, how much rope does he have before he’s sent down or sheltered to minimal ice time?

People, myself included, have fallen in love with Stützle. Do we not remember all the defensive lapses, giveaways and growing pains he had prior to last year?

He was able to iron those growing pains out on the Senators. That would not fly on a competitive LA Kings team. If Fiala didn’t get that much rope, neither would a rookie Stützle.

This is Stutzle’s 3rd full NHL season. He’s at 170 games now. Whether the first 50-100 games were played in the AHL ironing out his game is inconsequential to the fact he would be a point per game player for LA right now.

I’m curious, do you even watch Stutzle? Because it really doesn’t sound like it. Why are you trying to change the expectations of both players? This was always the projected case, that Byfield would take longer to grow into the potential he has.

Anyways this is a Byfield thread, so that’ll be my last comment on Stutzle for now.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

R

This is Stutzle’s 3rd full NHL season. He’s at 170 games now. Whether the first 50-100 games were played in the AHL ironing out his game is inconsequential to the fact he would be a point per game player for LA right now.

I’m curious, do you even watch Stutzle? Because it really doesn’t sound like it. Why are you trying to change the expectations of both players? This was always the projected case, that Byfield would take longer to grow into the potential he has.

Anyways this is a Byfield thread, so that’ll be my last comment on Stutzle for now.

I’m not sure why people are taking the position that people are somehow demeaning Stutzle. This is solely about how the Kings handle their own young forwards. Mark Yannetti was on a podcast this summer laughing at Ottawa (Stutzle) and Detroit (Raymond) for how they just let the players run wild without responsibility in comparison to the Kings’ system of forcing their young forwards to learn Defensive responsibility in the AHL and lower in the lineup.

The Kings’ stubborn, cookie-cutter approach with the young forward prospects has been a source of frustration for many Kings fans, which is why people are saying Stutzle would not have gotten the same opportunity on the Kings. It has nothing to do with Stutzle personally and everything to do with a fairly extensive history under this Kings management team. Can anyone prove that he wouldn’t have for sure? Of course not. The track record is a pretty good indication of how they would have handled Stutzle, however.

 

[KapG]

R

This is Stutzle’s 3rd full NHL season. He’s at 170 games now. Whether the first 50-100 games were played in the AHL ironing out his game is inconsequential to the fact he would be a point per game player for LA right now.

I’m curious, do you even watch Stutzle? Because it really doesn’t sound like it. Why are you trying to change the expectations of both players? This was always the projected case, that Byfield would take longer to grow into the potential he has.

Anyways this is a Byfield thread, so that’ll be my last comment on Stutzle for now.

You still don’t get it do you? Lord almighty…

Have a good day lol

 

[Random Comment]

I’m not sure why people are taking the position that people are somehow demeaning Stutzle. This is solely about how the Kings handle their own young forwards. Mark Yannetti was on a podcast this summer laughing at Ottawa (Stutzle) and Detroit (Raymond) for how they just let the players run wild without responsibility in comparison to the Kings’ system of forcing their young forwards to learn Defensive responsibility in the AHL and lower in the lineup.

The Kings’ stubborn, cookie-cutter approach with the young forward prospects has been a source of frustration for many Kings fans, which is why people are saying Stutzle would not have gotten the same opportunity on the Kings. It has nothing to do with Stutzle personally and everything to do with a fairly extensive history under this Kings management team. Can anyone prove that he wouldn’t have for sure? Of course not. The track record is a pretty good indication of how they would have handled Stutzle, howev

I’m not sure why people are taking the position that people are somehow demeaning Stutzle. This is solely about how the Kings handle their own young forwards. Mark Yannetti was on a podcast this summer laughing at Ottawa (Stutzle) and Detroit (Raymond) for how they just let the players run wild without responsibility in comparison to the Kings’ system of forcing their young forwards to learn Defensive responsibility in the AHL and lower in the lineup.

The Kings’ stubborn, cookie-cutter approach with the young forward prospects has been a source of frustration for many Kings fans, which is why people are saying Stutzle would not have gotten the same opportunity on the Kings. It has nothing to do with Stutzle personally and everything to do with a fairly extensive history under this Kings management team. Can anyone prove that he wouldn’t have for sure? Of course not. The track record is a pretty good indication of how they would have handled Stutzle, however.

Please explain to me what Quinton Byfield has done to deserve more ice time and opportunity over the last few seasons?

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Please explain to me what Quinton Byfield has done to deserve more ice time and opportunity over the last few seasons?

Please explain to me when he has been given the rope to do so? It’s almost as if you didn’t read what I wrote.

 

[Ghetty Green]

Agree, it might have taken Stutzle's a bit more time to crack LAs lineup, but more like half a season of being the best player in the AHL by far, before he was elevated. The fact by last year he was one of the most impactful players on the ice every night (on a bad team) demonstrates he'd be clearly in LAs top 6 by now, if not their #1 center. For context, this season LA is a much higher scoring team than Ottawa (32 more goals so far) but Stutzle is still scoring more per game than any Kings player. The guy is a terror.

The bigger question is whether injuries would have derailed Stutzle as much as Byfield. Probably not, but he certainly wouldn't be where he is now on a 90 point pace if multiple injuries that had him miss significant time over the last few years. Byfield deserves a reasonable pass on his progress so far because of that.

The one thing I'll point out that MIGHT apply to Byfield, is Stutzle actually really took off for Ottawa when they moved him to center. They tried to shield him a bit early on playing on the wing (he hadn't been a full time center to that point anyway), but he was not nearly as effective given he didn't have the puck as much. Once he moved to center, his possession, impact and scoring took off. I heard Byfield was moved to the wing, and while he plays a different game than Stutzle that won't see him handle the puck as much perhaps, I think you do want to see the puck on his stick more, and not just put him on the wing as a finisher. That said, it's certainly better for him to be a scoring winger getting 16 minutes per night, than a bottom 6 center getting 8 minutes (Stutzle was never used that little, even when he struggled).

Sens fans have overtaken Habs fans In terms of overrating their own players

 

[Akrapovince]

R

This is Stutzle’s 3rd full NHL season. He’s at 170 games now. Whether the first 50-100 games were played in the AHL ironing out his game is inconsequential to the fact he would be a point per game player for LA right now.

I’m curious, do you even watch Stutzle? Because it really doesn’t sound like it. Why are you trying to change the expectations of both players? This was always the projected case, that Byfield would take longer to grow into the potential he has.

Anyways this is a Byfield thread, so that’ll be my last comment on Stutzle for now.

Yes, and he’s benefited greatly from being thrusted into a top six spot and taking the reins at centre.

He would not have made the top six over Danault or Kopitar, and we have seen his struggles as a winger.

Fiala has played how many games? How many points has Fiala produced? Because he is currently in the dog house. Stützle would not be an exception as a rookie or even now currently.

The point is, Stützle has benefited greatly from being on Ottawa, and of course he has taken the opportunity and ran with it. I don’t think he would’ve been able to force his way to his success now on the Kings. Inversely, I’m not saying Byfield would be as good as Stützle on the Senators.

The whole point is, Byfield has been a victim of circumstance in LA. He hasn’t been given much rope. It doesn’t matter that he was projected and drafted as a prospect, because his development has been far from ideal for factors that are out of his control.

Some of these issues are LA’s fault, some of them is LA being too damn good to have been selecting 2nd overall.

He was drafted as a project, Stützle is dominant, he hasn’t had a chance in LA, Stützle’s development wouldn’t have been the best there either. All these things can be true at once.

 

[Osprey]

Weird time for this comment considering he's been playing line 1 PP2 since he was called up

You're right. That was an outdated criticism, though I assume that this usage will last only until players return from injury, at which point he may find himself on the 3rd line again. I just don't really understand moving him around the lineup and putting him on wing just to keep him in the NHL when he could be the top center and putting up a PPG in the AHL. It feels like trying to force him to be an NHL player.

 

[Random Comment]

Yes, and he’s benefited greatly from being thrusted into a top six spot and taking the reins at centre.

He would not have made the top six over Danault or Kopitar, and we have seen his struggles as a winger.

Fiala has played how many games? How many points has Fiala produced? Because he is currently in the dog house. Stützle would not be an exception as a rookie or even now currently.

The point is, Stützle has benefited greatly from being on Ottawa, and of course he has taken the opportunity and ran with it. I don’t think he would’ve been able to force his way to his success now on the Kings. Inversely, I’m not saying Byfield would be as good as Stützle on the Senators.

The whole point is, Byfield has been a victim of circumstance in LA. He hasn’t been given much rope. It doesn’t matter that he was projected and drafted as a prospect, because his development has been far from ideal for factors that are out of his control.

Some of these issues are LA’s fault, some of them is LA being too damn good to have been selecting 2nd overall.

He was drafted as a project, Stützle is dominant, he hasn’t had a chance in LA, Stützle’s development wouldn’t have been the best there either. All these things can be true at once.

Your original post was questioning whether Stutzle would even be in LA’s lineup. Nobody is questioning whether his development would be different. But given all the information we have - Stutzle would likely have been floating around the top two lines still, at close to ppg.

Now that Byfield seems to be getting those top two line winger spots, let’s see what he does with it? He’s been given the leash he needs, and now it’s time he forces LA to keep him there. I very well believe he can do that.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Don't think Stu would gave gotten top 6 minutes off the bat. But he would have forced himself on it pretty quickly. He is a get you of your seat offensive player and works hard defensively as well. Süperstar level talent.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Please explain to me what Quinton Byfield has done to deserve more ice time and opportunity over the last few seasons?

Sure, I'll say it one last time since a few Stutzle fans are convincing themselves of something we have ZERO evidence for.

Vilardi at 23 was our leading goal scorer (and leading scorer in aggregrate until about game 20) until the other night's shenanigans by Fiala/Kempe and he can't/couldn't get off the 3rd line.

Kaliyev is still our leading PP goal scorer despite being on IR and he still can't get off the 4th line.

Fagemo was called up to play in the top six, scored a goal and an assist, and was immediately benched when Arvidsson returned the next game.

Even Grundstrom scored in 3 consecutive games and was 80% CF% and was benched when Athanasiou returned.


There's nothing in LA now or recently that suggest Stutzle would have been moved any higher any faster and that's not a knock on TS, it's an ongoing complaint and commentary about LA's handling of youth. Anyone 23 and under is by and large relegated to depth minutes unless there are injuries. Byfield only got promoted initially because of Fiala's demotion and injuries/illnesses to Arvidsson and Moore--and he's been sticking less because of raw production and more because he's 'playing hockey the right way'.

I wish people would just believe LA fans on this rather than taking it as some sort of knock on Stutzle or attempt to narrow the current achievement gap.

Don't think Stu would gave gotten top 6 minutes off the bat. But he would have forced himself on it pretty quickly. He is a get you of your seat offensive player and works hard defensively as well. Süperstar level talent.

Fiala is a superstar level talent and he keeps getting demoted to the third line for similar issues.

Not going to belabor the point any further.