C Quinton Byfield (2020, 2nd, LAK) part IV

[ORRFForever]

Brutal tonight...I'm just going to assume that was one of his worst games a pro...

They have to do something with the kid. Why put him thru this?

 

[Baaaaaaaaaaaaah]

He was never a top 2 on my board, but I still want to see him succeed. However, I think it's time to start sounding the alarms. Whether it's his usage or it's Byfield himself, they have to do something or his confidence will take years to recover.

 

[ORRFForever]

He was never a top 2 on my board, but I still want to see him succeed. However, I think it's time to start sounding the alarms. Whether it's his usage or it's Byfield himself, they have to do something or his confidence will take years to recover.

He lost a year to Covid. What's the point of having him in L.A. (losing another year) when he could be developing in the AHL? I can't wrap my mind around this.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Brutal tonight...I'm just going to assume that was one of his worst games a pro...

Bar none his worst, starting to get slightly worse each game. Whether he's in his own head or what, this isn't the same dude who looked so good in his debut this season vs. the Avs, or the guy who was the best player on the ice before breaking his ankle...

My guess is they're trying to let him play thru it (AKA no one on the Kings knows what the f*** to do with forward prospects) but tonight was pretty bad.

 

[Herby]

He lost a year to Covid. What's the point of having him in L.A. (losing another year) when he could be developing in the AHL? I can't wrap my mind around this.

He had 45 AHL games the last two years before coming up to the Kings this year and it's pretty apparent that he gained nothing in that league to prepare him for the NHL. The Kings have a serious issue transitioning forwards from the AHL to the NHL, so it's not only a Byfield issue, almost everyone who comes up from Ontario to LA is an offensive black hole. The Kings 4 first round picks from 2017-2020 who all spent significant time in the AHL have played 82 combined games this season in the NHL and have 7 goals and 8 assists. These are players taken 2, 5, 11 and 18 overall in the draft, that stat is so ugly it's almost unbelievable, the only one who hasn't been awful offensively is Kaliyev, a player who kind of relies on one extraordinary skill and didn't need a ton of development.

If Byfield goes back to Ontario for the rest of this season and is this same player again next season as he has been this season it's not only a big problem for the Kings team next season in the immediate but you risk him busting, the history of guys taken that high with three years of nothing at the NHL level does not bode well. Now, yes the same thing could happen if he stays in the NHL, but for players such as him fighting through it at the NHL level has been proven better for development, especially for a team like the Kings.

 

[ORRFForever]

He had 45 AHL games the last two years before coming up to the Kings this year and it's pretty apparent that he gained nothing in that league to prepare him for the NHL. The Kings have a serious issue transitioning forwards from the AHL to the NHL, so it's not only a Byfield issue, almost everyone who comes up from Ontario to LA is an offensive black hole. The Kings 4 first round picks from 2017-2020 who all spent significant time in the AHL have played 82 combined games this season in the NHL and have 7 goals and 8 assists. These are players taken 2, 5, 11 and 18 overall in the draft, that stat is so ugly it's almost unbelievable, the only one who hasn't been awful offensively is Kaliyev, a player who kind of relies on one extraordinary skill and didn't need a ton of development.

If Byfield goes back to Ontario for the rest of this season and is this same player again next season as he has been this season it's not only a big problem for the Kings team next season in the immediate but you risk him busting, the history of guys taken that high with three years of nothing at the NHL level does not bode well. Now, yes the same thing could happen if he stays in the NHL, but for players such as him fighting through it at the NHL level has been proven better for development, especially for a team like the Kings.

But why did they rush him in the first place? If they were just going to keep him on the 3rd or 4th line, there was no upside to having him in L.A..

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

But why did they rush him in the first place? If they were just going to keep him on the 3rd or 4th line, there was no upside to having him in L.A..

If we had answers to that we probably wouldn't be the worst offense in the league for the last 15 or so years, heh.

 

[Herby]

But why did they rush him in the first place? If they were just going to keep him on the 3rd or 4th line, there was no upside to having him in L.A..

They didn't rush him. Most 1--2 picks end up in the NHL at 18, whether they are ready to successfully play a top 6 role or not. And most of those players end up turning out fine, a recent example is Jack Hughes. QB ended up riding busses in the AHL at 18, an unusual path that was only available to a CHL player due to Covid. NJ could have had Hughes in the AHL but never sent him down despite his early massive struggles. Right or wrong, most teams prefer to have their super high picks in the NHL.

I think right now the Kings probably realize that the AHL was a mistake last year and it's not so much the potential upside to having him in the NHL it is the potential downside to having him go back to the Kings forward graveyard in Ontario and be lost again next season. He has been so lost that if the AHL were something they would consider for him he'd probably be there by now.

 

[ORRFForever]

If we had answers to that we probably wouldn't be the worst offense in the league for the last 15 or so years, heh.

Fair enough.

 

[93LEAFS]

He had 45 AHL games the last two years before coming up to the Kings this year and it's pretty apparent that he gained nothing in that league to prepare him for the NHL. The Kings have a serious issue transitioning forwards from the AHL to the NHL, so it's not only a Byfield issue, almost everyone who comes up from Ontario to LA is an offensive black hole. The Kings 4 first round picks from 2017-2020 who all spent significant time in the AHL have played 82 combined games this season in the NHL and have 7 goals and 8 assists. These are players taken 2, 5, 11 and 18 overall in the draft, that stat is so ugly it's almost unbelievable, the only one who hasn't been awful offensively is Kaliyev, a player who kind of relies on one extraordinary skill and didn't need a ton of development.

If Byfield goes back to Ontario for the rest of this season and is this same player again next season as he has been this season it's not only a big problem for the Kings team next season in the immediate but you risk him busting, the history of guys taken that high with three years of nothing at the NHL level does not bode well. Now, yes the same thing could happen if he stays in the NHL, but for players such as him fighting through it at the NHL level has been proven better for development, especially for a team like the Kings.

I read Ontario as the OHL for a second. I sometimes just completely blank and forget that there is an Ontario in California in the Inland Empire, where the King affiliate plays.

I'm not going to act like some expert on the Kings roster, but it might make sense to temporarily move him off center to a wing position on the middle-6. Fewer things you have to worry about, have a veteran center carry the load, and it enables him to play to some of his most obvious strengths which are his size, speed, and reach, where he can focus on the simple things such as forechecking hard, put defenceman on their heels on breakouts (as the center due to playing deep is oftentimes the last forward to break the zone), and win battles down low. Focus on the simple stuff to get his confidence back. Look, playing center in the NHL is no simple task, especially for a 19-year-old. The only guys who truly excelled at it as a teenager this past decade are McDavid, Matthews, and to a lesser extent Eichel (Eichel was a competent center in year one, but broke out as a star at 20). MacKinnon played year one as a winger, but was solid in year 2 as a center. Guys like Hischier, PLD, and Barkov were competent.

A lot of Byfield's best traits are similar to prime Blake Wheeler. Big, fast (especially for their size), with a long reach. Not sure I see Byfield reaching Wheeler level assist numbers (but no one thought Wheeler would at this point in his career or even at 24). Even if I was never as high on Byfield as some people on this board or the Kings front office. I'd have a very hard time seeing him at the minimum becoming an effective middle-six winger with obviously the potential for a lot more. He has a skill-set that even if he doesn't put up great numbers to find a long-time role as an effective NHLer.

 

[ORRFForever]

I'd have a very hard time seeing him at the minimum becoming an effective middle-six winger with obviously the potential for a lot more. He has a skill-set that even if he doesn't put up great numbers to find a long-time role as an effective NHLer.

Help me better understand your last 2 sentences, please.

 

[93LEAFS]

If we had answers to that we probably wouldn't be the worst offense in the league for the last 15 or so years, heh.

A fair amount of those 15 years was more a product of team strategy more than anything. Sutter had your entire team even with high-end offensive talent playing very low-event hockey, and I'm sure any fan base would gladly take the results you got under it.

They didn't rush him. Most 1--2 picks end up in the NHL at 18, whether they are ready to successfully play a top 6 role or not. And most of those players end up turning out fine, a recent example is Jack Hughes. QB ended up riding busses in the AHL at 18, an unusual path that was only available to a CHL player due to Covid. NJ could have had Hughes in the AHL but never sent him down despite his early massive struggles. Right or wrong, most teams prefer to have their super high picks in the NHL.

I think right now the Kings probably realize that the AHL was a mistake last year and it's not so much the potential upside to having him in the NHL it is the potential downside to having him go back to the Kings forward graveyard in Ontario and be lost again next season. He has been so lost that if the AHL were something they would consider for him he'd probably be there by now.

I think these last 2 years might show to some of all the people who hope their top prospects could play in the AHL instead of being required to go back to the CHL give some second thought to it. The only previous examples of this that we had were the guys who got to play due to using the loan exemption (Honka, Sandin, A. Nylander), and the results in the case of the 2 guys we can judge with some retrospect in Honka and Nylander aren't exactly promising examples. We also had the NHLers who went back down in the 04/05 season but most of those guys were already established NHLers at 18 (Nathan Horton, Bergeron. and Brent Burns). Although, unlike the loan/lockout guys it will be almost impossible to isolate the effects since the pandemic also caused a ton of issues related to prospect development.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

I’m not willing to blame it on the pandemic. My personal opinion based on body language and what I have seen on the ice is Byfield is waiting for it to happen for him. He doesn’t attack the zone. He doesn’t play like a guy who thinks he is the big dick in the locker room. (Maybe he’s not.). He has the tools I just don’t think he has any heart or balls.

 

[bsu]

I said before the draft and before the Kings got him that he gave me real Etem vibes...



They both used their size, speed, and hands to score in transition a lot in juniors... but I don't see offensive IQ needed to be an elite player. It's still really early and it wouldn't surprise me if I'm wrong and he turns into a superstar. I just don't see it myself.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

A fair amount of those 15 years was more a product of team strategy more than anything. Sutter had your entire team even with high-end offensive talent playing very low-event hockey, and I'm sure any fan base would gladly take the results you got under it.

Oh I agree, but a quick look at the high-end offensive prospects the Kings have drafted and developed during that time period is very revealing.

Kings are money with d-men, character guys/NHL middle sixers, and goalie whispering. I have high confidence that when they draft someone, they'll place him in the NHL somehow, almost no matter what the round (see Nic Dowd, Matt Roy, and so on). However, they are absolute dog shit with scoring forwards, and as such, maybe more of a 'project' like Byfield was too ambitious for them.

And yes it's been mostly the same staffing since 2008, even if with slightly different visions. You know me, I'm the eternal optimist, and I feel like it still needs a year or two to play out, but if you look at the past, it's easy to see why we're worried that the development team in particular is in over their heads with talented forwards. I half-joked we need to find a team good at drafting forwards and just start a pipeline trading them d-men.

 

[Osprey]

It seems like all that he's been doing lately is turning the puck over. Almost as soon as the puck is on his stick, it's off of it again and going in the other direction. It's very discouraging.

 

[ORRFForever]

but I don't see offensive IQ needed to be an elite player. It's still really early and it wouldn't surprise me if I'm wrong and he turns into a superstar. I just don't see it myself.

I am worried you are right.

 

[tomd]

LA should only draft defensemen and then trade them for good forwards...

 

[Fatass]

I am worried you are right.

LA would be wise to trade Byfield right now (or at the 2022 draft) while he's still got decent value. He just looks like he's not going to measure up. Yes, he's got some physical tools, but he looks totally lost out there! Move him now and there's still a good return coming back.

 

[ORRFForever]

LA would be wise to trade Byfield right now (or at the 2022 draft) while he's still got decent value. He just looks like he's not going to measure up. Yes, he's got some physical tools, but he looks totally lost out there! Move him now and there's still a good return coming back.

It's funny...

There is talk the Rangers are moving LAF - according to the Ranger's forum.

***********************************************************************************

Now for something positive...

1) He's only 19;
2) He played well in the AHL.

I hope LA knows what they are doing because I'd have him in the AHL so fast it would make his head spin.

 

[ORRFForever]

Yeah, yeah, yeah... an assist. It's a PP assist but beggars cannot be choosers.

 

[bsu]

Scored a goal

 

[ORRFForever]

Scored a goal

TWO !!!!!!

I'm doing my taxes, not paying attention to the game and... QB has 2 goals and an assist. Nice

 

[Dominance]

His speed is so deceptive it’s hilarious to watch. Same or slower stride speed than those around him and pulling away so easily.

Odds he gets more then the 11 minutes he’s been averaging this year after tonight’s performance?

 

[ORRFForever]

17 more games like this to finish the season and we'll be talking Calder.