C Quinton Byfield (2020, 2nd, LAK) part IV

[MuckOG]

DELETED

 

[Schmooley]

Nope I comment about a ton of prospects. This just happens to be the only thread where making any negative comment about a prospect who’s clearly struggling is met with Kings fans/Byfield fans resorting to name calling

I didnt see anyone calling you names. It seems like you care more about it than anyone is all. Carry on.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I didnt see anyone calling you names. It seems like you care more about it than anyone is all. Carry on.

Been called “pathetic” twice on the last page alone

 

[Herby]

Unfortunately, he's having the season he should have had last year this season. Hopefully he can do the Jack Hughes path but a year behind. Meaning he makes some strides next season in his D+3 and then becomes a 1st line type player in his D+4. Still extremely frustrating as a Kings fan to see just how lost he is when he had a half season of games in the AHL last year. The Kings have some really big issues with developing forwards (especially at the AHL level) and getting them ready for the NHL. Byfield, Turcotte, Vilardi, JAD, Kaliyev, Kupari have all spent atleast half a season in the AHL and only Kaliyev has grabbed an NHL spot and ran with it, the rest all looked pretty bad in the NHL.

I wouldn't write off Byfield, I think those that are doing that are being a bit premature, he has a lot of skill, size and skating, that is a recipe for potential stardom, but I also wouldn't completely excuse his play and say it doesn't matter like some here have. He has clearly not produced the type of results in two seasons you'd like from a #2OA. I think we will have a better read next season at about the half way point, if he has made strides to contributing he will be just fine, if he's still struggling then you really have to worry.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Unfortunately, he's having the season he should have had last year this season. Hopefully he can do the Jack Hughes path but a year behind. Meaning he makes some strides next season in his D+3 and then becomes a 1st line type player in his D+4. Still extremely frustrating as a Kings fan to see just how lost he is when he had a half season of games in the AHL last year. The Kings have some really big issues with developing forwards (especially at the AHL level) and getting them ready for the NHL. Byfield, Turcotte, Vilardi, JAD, Kaliyev, Kupari have all spent atleast half a season in the AHL and only Kaliyev has grabbed an NHL spot and ran with it, the rest all looked pretty bad in the NHL.

I wouldn't write off Byfield, I think those that are doing that are being a bit premature, he has a lot of skill, size and skating, that is a recipe for potential stardom, but I also wouldn't completely excuse his play and say it doesn't matter like some here have. He has clearly not produced the type of results in two seasons you'd like from a #2OA. I think we will have a better read next season at about the half way point, if he has made strides to contributing he will be just fine, if he's still struggling then you really have to worry.

As usual, this binary isn't helpful and no one is saying that.

We're seeing him slowly grow and overcome some of his criticisms night after night, that's all. It's pretty simply and doesn't need to be this stupidly contentious thing.

Re: the timing I do think a broken ankle followed by covid being a half-year setback should result in commensurately lower expectations. I'm generally happy with what I'm seeing out of him given context. I do think people are putting too much stock into his raw production rather than the process especially without context (no PP time especially). And in this thread I think it's clear who isn't watching him every night because they're parroting outdated and overwrought criticisms.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

That's not moving the goalposts because it's exactly what was worried about prior to the draft. What's moving the goalposts is mischaracterizing that concern as "he only scores on the rush and doesn't score in other ways." The concern was always that the majority of his goals were scored off of the rush, so a majority of his goals might not translate to the NHL. He still scored in other ways in the OHL and was expected to in the pros, so the fact that he has scored in other ways is not proof that the concern was unfounded or that he's improved and adjusted. You shouldn't just look at the ratio of non-rush-to-rush goals being higher now and conclude that he improved his non-rush scoring, not when his overall scoring is down, and it's down mostly because his rush scoring has been way down since turning pro. Again, that's what was worried might happen, so it's perfectly consistent with past discussions to be discussing it now.

Osprey. This is literally a verbatim quote that I am responding to:

"With Byfield I think the issues are different. My problem with him as a junior player was the lack of zone control and only creating off the rush. He was also what I call a "heads down" hockey player. Byfield would skate himself into a corner to get locked up and lose the puck if he couldn't put it on the net. He would make a play to someone that wasn't in a position to do anything. "

If you want to complain about what you thought, fine, but changing the words of a direct quote is poor form.

 

[nbwingsfan]

As usual, this binary isn't helpful and no one is saying that.

We're seeing him slowly grow and overcome some of his criticisms night after night, that's all. It's pretty simply and doesn't need to be this stupidly contentious thing.

Re: the timing I do think a broken ankle followed by covid being a half-year setback should result in commensurately lower expectations. I'm generally happy with what I'm seeing out of him given context. I do think people are putting too much stock into his raw production rather than the process especially without context (no PP time especially). And in this thread I think it's clear who isn't watching him every night because they're parroting outdated and overwrought criticisms.

This is exactly what I’ve been talking about…

You do know people can disagree with you yes?

You have your own fellow kings fans, who clearly watch him every night, saying they’re disappointed in him so far and your response is always something along the lines of “you’re wrong, you’re seeing him improve every night”.

Maybe they don’t see him improving every night, and see a guy who’s playing worse than an average 4th liner. Which at his age isn’t the end of the world, but to some may be a bit of a concern for a 2nd overall in his D+ 2

 

[funky]

Super young kid, broken ankle, Covid and playing 15 to 20 pounds light. Give the kid another year. He was very raw when introduced to the AHL and started to play really well after a dozen games. He will pick up the NHL in time. When he does and his body developed he will be a force. See glimpses of it every once in a while now.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Just have to be patient with Byfield.
I'll agree he's been a little disappointing
but he's still only 19.
he could still turn into what was expected of him when drafted.
I think next season we will see a much different Byfield

 

[Herby]

As usual, this binary isn't helpful and no one is saying that.

We're seeing him slowly grow and overcome some of his criticisms night after night, that's all. It's pretty simply and doesn't need to be this stupidly contentious thing.

Re: the timing I do think a broken ankle followed by covid being a half-year setback should result in commensurately lower expectations. I'm generally happy with what I'm seeing out of him given context. I do think people are putting too much stock into his raw production rather than the process especially without context (no PP time especially). And in this thread I think it's clear who isn't watching him every night because they're parroting outdated and overwrought criticisms.

Really? Go look at the Byfield threads on our board, there was a alot of outright denial that he was playing bad. A lot fo you guys had on some completely rose-colored glasses trying to excuse ANY of the blame from him and place ALL of it on others, which was not a fair description of the situation. Now ofcourse the usual excuses come in anytime a player struggles, I don't really believe in excuses and just judge on what I see.

You can both be a realist and say he is struggling now and also be optimistic that he will figure this out and be a difference maker in the future, this isn't a Turcotte situation where the tools aren't there, it's just a matter of getting him to figure out how to use the tools.

I'll be concerned if at this time next year he still hasn't figured it out, until then lets just take a wait and see approach.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This is exactly what I’ve been talking about…

You do know people can disagree with you yes?

You have your own fellow kings fans, who clearly watch him every night, saying they’re disappointed in him so far and your response is always something along the lines of “you’re wrong, you’re seeing him improve every night”.

Maybe they don’t see him improving every night, and see a guy who’s playing worse than an average 4th liner. Which at his age isn’t the end of the world, but to some may be a bit of a concern for a 2nd overall in his D+ 2

I don't think ANYONE will agree with that.

And, like Osprey, I'd appreciate you not using direct quotes when you're making up words to put in my mouth.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Really? Go look at the Byfield threads on our board, there was a alot of outright denial that he was playing bad. A lot fo you guys had on some completely rose-colored glasses trying to excuse ANY of the blame from him and place ALL of it on others, which was not a fair description of the situation. Now ofcourse the usual excuses come in anytime a player struggles, I don't really believe in excuses and just judge on what I see.

You can both be a realist and say he is struggling now and also be optimistic that he will figure this out and be a difference maker in the future, this isn't a Turcotte situation where the tools aren't there, it's just a matter of getting him to figure out how to use the tools.

I'll be concerned if at this time next year he still hasn't figured it out, until then lets just take a wait and see approach.

Nope, the boldfaced is outright bullshit, the same thing that happened there is happening here-and your inability to separate criticism from praise and your usual binaries are on full display in this thread. Which is ironic because in your second paragraph you're completely agreeing with the rest of us--there's a LOT of grey area here.

We've said a lot of the same things in this thread and they're both quantified AND visible to the eye test--for example, that Byfield plays a LOT better with some players than with others (and for VERY clear and oblivious reasons, as well).. Somehow, some of you take that as "oh so NOTHING is his fault" and frankly that's a 'you' problem and not worth discussing at any length.

Hell, some of us are backing that up with stats AND visual evidence but the two or three of you that really want to pile on just go "oh so he's flawless, got it" and it's like arguing with f***ing 5 year olds who only deal in absolutes.

@nbwingsfan has been talking shit about Byfield since he was 14.5 years old, I don't expect that to in the face of any evidence, but I'm at least trying to have good faith conversation with others, and it just keeps getting met with the garbage youre spouting above.

You guys can have your circle-jerk Byfield sucks party all you want but don't be so surprised Pikachu when people present evidence that disagrees, and don't assume that because they disagree that they thing everything is perfect, either. He's a 19-year-old project who has missed time, no one should be surprised there are deficiencies in his game, no one should be surprised that his deployment/linemates have great affect on his results, no one should be surprised that he's slow-growing at this level as he did elsewhere.

 

[Herby]

How is it a lie? How many negative posts did you make about Byfield vs. negative posts about his linemates? You were spending every game thread trashing Brown and AA while never making a peep about the third member of that line, who was struggling just as bad. And anytime anyone pointed that out you swung back and accused me and others of "Placing all the blame on QB" when all we were doing was trying to balance blame instead of placing it all on 2 players when it was an equally bad showing my the trio.

I think it's stupid to hate on a player for no reason but I also think it's stupid to be overly optimistic about every prospect in the organization too, it is statistically unlikely that all prospects make it, but I think our fanbase is largely to optimistic and slow to realize when players development is showing cracks. I am optimistic when it warrants it and also pessimistic when it warrants it, which makes me a "hater" and a "stat watcher" to some of the awful posters on our board. Not saying that is the case here, but it also isn't the case that his development has been optimal and where it should be. It's unfair to call him a bust but it's not unfair to say there could be some areas of concern to keep an eye on.

 

[93LEAFS]

I feel skies the limit for his overall potential and his low is like a Jordan Staal. but we shall see
I drafted him 2nd overall in my league so even though Im not an LA fan I hope he figures it out soon and killlls it

His floor isn't Jordan Staal. Very few prospects have that floor. Players ceilings and floors are often dramatically overstated. I mean, who would have though Griffin Reinhart's floor was playing in Ireland at 27 and not leading his team in points without having a significant injury.

As for Byfield, I don't really see Superstar in him. He has tools that will make him an NHLer in a middle-six role in most scenarios, but I don't think he becomes a top 10 franchise C. His chance of being a bonafide first line player might actually be better suited on the wing where he can be a heavy forechecker using his speed and reach, and not tied down with all the responsibilities of a center.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Nope, the boldfaced is outright bullshit, the same thing that happened there is happening here-and your inability to separate criticism from praise and your usual binaries are on full display in this thread. Which is ironic because in your second paragraph you're completely agreeing with the rest of us--there's a LOT of grey area here.

We've said a lot of the same things in this thread and they're both quantified AND visible to the eye test--for example, that Byfield plays a LOT better with some players than with others (and for VERY clear and oblivious reasons, as well).. Somehow, some of you take that as "oh so NOTHING is his fault" and frankly that's a 'you' problem and not worth discussing at any length.

Hell, some of us are backing that up with stats AND visual evidence but the two or three of you that really want to pile on just go "oh so he's flawless, got it" and it's like arguing with f***ing 5 year olds who only deal in absolutes.

@nbwingsfan has been talking shit about Byfield since he was 14.5 years old, I don't expect that to in the face of any evidence, but I'm at least trying to have good faith conversation with others, and it just keeps getting met with the garbage youre spouting above.

You guys can have your circle-jerk Byfield sucks party all you want but don't be so surprised Pikachu when people present evidence that disagrees, and don't assume that because they disagree that they thing everything is perfect, either. He's a 19-year-old project who has missed time, no one should be surprised there are deficiencies in his game, no one should be surprised that his deployment/linemates have great affect on his results, no one should be surprised that he's slow-growing at this level as he did elsewhere.

I didn’t even know who Byfield was before the end of his rookie zOHL season

And you talk about people making things up… please find one post from me prior. Just one. If you can then I’ll leave this thread entirely

 

[Osprey]

Osprey. This is literally a verbatim quote that I am responding to:

"With Byfield I think the issues are different. My problem with him as a junior player was the lack of zone control and only creating off the rush. He was also what I call a "heads down" hockey player. Byfield would skate himself into a corner to get locked up and lose the puck if he couldn't put it on the net. He would make a play to someone that wasn't in a position to do anything. "

If you want to complain about what you thought, fine, but changing the words of a direct quote is poor form.

I didn't realize that you were referencing an earlier post, but what I was responding to was you adding "That was the oft-parroted concern that most people ripped from the popular scouting video." That's not what the video or most people said around the time of the draft, so I stand by my correction. If you want to complain about what that one poster just said, fine, but you don't need to attribute it to others.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I don't think ANYONE will agree with that.

And, like Osprey, I'd appreciate you not using direct quotes when you're making up words to put in my mouth.

Dude the guy you responded to literally said this

 

[bsu]

Nope, the boldfaced is outright bullshit, the same thing that happened there is happening here-and your inability to separate criticism from praise and your usual binaries are on full display in this thread. Which is ironic because in your second paragraph you're completely agreeing with the rest of us--there's a LOT of grey area here.

We've said a lot of the same things in this thread and they're both quantified AND visible to the eye test--for example, that Byfield plays a LOT better with some players than with others (and for VERY clear and oblivious reasons, as well).. Somehow, some of you take that as "oh so NOTHING is his fault" and frankly that's a 'you' problem and not worth discussing at any length.

Hell, some of us are backing that up with stats AND visual evidence but the two or three of you that really want to pile on just go "oh so he's flawless, got it" and it's like arguing with f***ing 5 year olds who only deal in absolutes.

@nbwingsfan has been talking shit about Byfield since he was 14.5 years old, I don't expect that to in the face of any evidence, but I'm at least trying to have good faith conversation with others, and it just keeps getting met with the garbage youre spouting above.

You guys can have your circle-jerk Byfield sucks party all you want but don't be so surprised Pikachu when people present evidence that disagrees, and don't assume that because they disagree that they thing everything is perfect, either. He's a 19-year-old project who has missed time, no one should be surprised there are deficiencies in his game, no one should be surprised that his deployment/linemates have great affect on his results, no one should be surprised that he's slow-growing at this level as he did elsewhere.

Dude there's like 1 or 2 people in this thread that says Byfield sucks. You are so triggered by people saying he should be developing in AHL for some reason...... You blame everyone but the player himself. No one is saying he sucks or will be a bust we are saying he's not ready for the NHL RIGHT NOW and should be playing in the AHL where he can have the puck on his stick and play more than 9-10 minutes per game. He should be in the AHL playing all the PP minutes, and all the end game situations and maybe even throw him out there for a PK to get him some experience..... He has 4 points on the season you can't blame him linemates for that. If he was drafted #20 instead of #2 would you still want him playing the role he is now? Even if he went absolutely crazy and scored a hat trick next game... he would have 6 total points on the season.... I mean cmon don't blame his linemates they are producing and actually won you a couple games recently.

Why do you think anyone recommending a different development path is talking shit about him? So weird.

Say whatever you want about me being a Ducks fan but I'm not hating on the kid, I just don't think he is ready for the NHL and I think the Kings suck ass at developing forwards and this is just proving that.

I also say Drysdale should be in the AHL and he's a way way better NHL player than Byfield currently is.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

How is it a lie? How many negative posts did you make about Byfield vs. negative posts about his linemates? You were spending every game thread trashing Brown and AA while never making a peep about the third member of that line, who was struggling just as bad. And anytime anyone pointed that out you swung back and accused me and others of "Placing all the blame on QB" when all we were doing was trying to balance blame instead of placing it all on 2 players when it was an equally bad showing my the trio.

I think it's stupid to hate on a player for no reason but I also think it's stupid to be overly optimistic about every prospect in the organization too, it is statistically unlikely that all prospects make it, but I think our fanbase is largely to optimistic and slow to realize when players development is showing cracks. I am optimistic when it warrants it and also pessimistic when it warrants it, which makes me a "hater" and a "stat watcher" to some of the awful posters on our board. Not saying that is the case here, but it also isn't the case that his development has been optimal and where it should be. It's unfair to call him a bust but it's not unfair to say there could be some areas of concern to keep an eye on.

So you're mad that I was trashing players playing poorly in a Game Day thread, rather than solely trashing Byfield?

I even said in this thread what I said there--I have different expectations for a 37 year old and 27 year old veterans than I do for a single-digit-game 19-year-old rookie. I even said yes, he has his own issues--but it's hard to work on those when your linemates are causing problems themselves. That doesn't absolve Byfield of anything--but it was pretty clear by the eye test and posted stats that there were much more effective combinations available on the roster that would allow him to grow and make mistakes that didn't involve also covering for two other idiots.

Imagine having to issue a disclaimer in every GDT post. "Wow, what a dumbass lazy turnover from Brown." Disclaimer: Byfield also did something wrong on that play.

Dude there's like 1 or 2 people in this thread that says Byfield sucks. You are so triggered by people saying he should be developing in AHL for some reason...... You blame everyone but the player himself. No one is saying he sucks or will be a bust we are saying he sucks in the NHL RIGHT NOW and should be playing in the AHL where he can have the puck on his stick and play more than 9-10 minutes per game. He should be in the AHL playing all the PP minutes, and all the end game situations and maybe even throw him out there for a PK to get him some experience..... He has 4 points on the season you can't blame him linemates for that. If he was drafted #20 instead of #2 would you still want him playing the role he is now?

Why do you think anyone recommending a different development path is talking shit about him? So weird.

Say whatever you want about me being a Ducks fan but I'm not hating on the kid, I just don't think he is ready for the NHL and I think the Kings suck ass at developing forwards and this is just proving that.

I also say Drysdale should be in the AHL and he's a way way better NHL player than Byfield currently is.

I'm not triggered at all by the thought that he should be developed in the AHL. I'm not sure if it's this one or our forum where I said I could agree with it. I recall very clearly though the org saying the didn't like the habits he was developing in the AHL and I could see that too. If I had my preference, he'd be playing more than 15 minutes a game and getting PP time in his current role in the NHL but I wouldn't be opposed to him doing it in the AHL right now either. I can easily see an argument for either. Edit: with respect to what you say about the minutes he should be playign in the AHL I wholeheartedly agree, I'd just personally prefer him doing that in the NHL. IE there's no reason he shouldn't be out there for PP, extra attacker, or OT. Maybe not constantly, but also not never.

The things I'm 'triggered' by are people chirping clearly outdated criticisms and doubling down on them when called out.

 

[bsu]

PS. is he going to continue to use a mini stick for the rest of his career? It's not wonder why he fumbles so many passes and loses so many pucks randomly.

 

[bsu]

So you're mad that I was trashing players playing poorly in a Game Day thread, rather than solely trashing Byfield?

I even said in this thread what I said there--I have different expectations for a 37 year old and 27 year old veterans than I do for a single-digit-game 19-year-old rookie. I even said yes, he has his own issues--but it's hard to work on those when your linemates are causing problems themselves. That doesn't absolve Byfield of anything--but it was pretty clear by the eye test and posted stats that there were much more effective combinations available on the roster that would allow him to grow and make mistakes that didn't involve also covering for two other idiots.

Imagine having to issue a disclaimer in every GDT post. "Wow, what a dumbass lazy turnover from Brown." Disclaimer: Byfield also did something wrong on that play.





I'm not triggered at all by the thought that he should be developed in the AHL. I'm not sure if it's this one or our forum where I said I could agree with it. I recall very clearly though the org saying the didn't like the habits he was developing in the AHL and I could see that too. If I had my preference, he'd be playing more than 15 minutes a game and getting PP time in his current role in the NHL but I wouldn't be opposed to him doing it in the AHL right now either. I can easily see an argument for either. Edit: with respect to what you say about the minutes he should be playign in the AHL I wholeheartedly agree, I'd just personally prefer him doing that in the NHL. IE there's no reason he shouldn't be out there for PP, extra attacker, or OT. Maybe not constantly, but also not never.

The things I'm 'triggered' by are people chirping clearly outdated criticisms and doubling down on them when called out.

Fair enough. Hopefully he figures it out soon even as a Ducks fan you never want to see a young player in over his head or thrown to the wolves when they aren't ready.... I think the Ducks are doing that now with Drysdale and his usage.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I didn't realize

Then you should have stopped there.

PS. is he going to continue to use a mini stick for the rest of his career? It's not wonder why he fumbles so many passes and loses so many pucks randomly.

Yeah it's becoming very, VERY apparent this is going to be a problem at the NHL level. He got away with it because of in-tight dangles even in the AHL, but for a guy with his wingspan/size to handicap himself with this at the NHL level, you see the issues arising with it already, including his constant hunch.

You would imagine they've had this conversation, but then again, this is the org who refuses to play their bluechippers on the AHL power play, so who even knows anymore

Edit: re your Drysdale comparison that's a really good point. He looked absolutely nails when he started, and is hitting a bit of a wall right now. I think the question is always what happens when they hit that wall--it's easy to say maybe they should have spent more time in the AHL but maybe they woudl have just hit it lateR? Hard to say. I Think in his case at least he's high-IQ enough that he'll work it out. IMO with Byfield I think his physical attributes allow him to take shortcuts in the AHL and all other levels that he can't do vs. the biggest, fastest, best checkers in the world.

 

[93LEAFS]

PS. is he going to continue to use a mini stick for the rest of his career? It's not wonder why he fumbles so many passes and loses so many pucks randomly.

Matthews uses a small stick relative to his size/wing-span, because he likes the quick release and in tight control to change angles it gives him, at the expense of his one-time/slap shot. Plus, we don't really know the exact aspects of Byfields stick. If he's using a ridiculously low flex with a low kick-point that can make passes very hard to receive and doesn't have that much to do with the overall size of the stick. For example, Kessel used a stick like that, and many players said it was outright unusable for them, but worked for him.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Matthews uses a small stick relative to his size/wing-span, because he likes the quick release and in tight control to change angles it gives him, at the expense of his one-time/slap shot. Plus, we don't really know the exact aspects of Byfields stick. If he's using a ridiculously low flex with a low kick-point that can make passes very hard to receive and doesn't have that much to do with the overall size of the stick. For example, Kessel used a stick like that, and many players said it was outright unusable for them, but worked for him.

I think @bsu and I agree it's that damn sher wood composite that's causing problems

Honestly I never even noticed that with Matthews, it doesn't really look oddly sized, maybe because of how he uses it. You're right we don't know much about Byfield's hardware but it sure looks funny and when he's fumbling the puck it looks downright stupid.



Can see his SO attempt at 4:20ish and the front view at 4:40ish shows you how short it is.

But 100% generally agree with you that this is usually just a player preference thing and who the hell am I to judge. But I know more than one of us is like--what the heck

 

[BamBam1031]

So you're mad that I was trashing players playing poorly in a Game Day thread, rather than solely trashing Byfield?

I even said in this thread what I said there--I have different expectations for a 37 year old and 27 year old veterans than I do for a single-digit-game 19-year-old rookie. I even said yes, he has his own issues--but it's hard to work on those when your linemates are causing problems themselves. That doesn't absolve Byfield of anything--but it was pretty clear by the eye test and posted stats that there were much more effective combinations available on the roster that would allow him to grow and make mistakes that didn't involve also covering for two other idiots.

Imagine having to issue a disclaimer in every GDT post. "Wow, what a dumbass lazy turnover from Brown." Disclaimer: Byfield also did something wrong on that play.





I'm not triggered at all by the thought that he should be developed in the AHL. I'm not sure if it's this one or our forum where I said I could agree with it. I recall very clearly though the org saying the didn't like the habits he was developing in the AHL and I could see that too. If I had my preference, he'd be playing more than 15 minutes a game and getting PP time in his current role in the NHL but I wouldn't be opposed to him doing it in the AHL right now either. I can easily see an argument for either. Edit: with respect to what you say about the minutes he should be playign in the AHL I wholeheartedly agree, I'd just personally prefer him doing that in the NHL. IE there's no reason he shouldn't be out there for PP, extra attacker, or OT. Maybe not constantly, but also not never.

The things I'm 'triggered' by are people chirping clearly outdated criticisms and doubling down on them when called out.

Seems to me like you get triggered every time you leave your echo chamber. Let people post as they like. Freedom of speech, eh? Like people have to post your way or it's the highway. There's a toxic binary for you.