C Oliver Moore - University of Minnesota , NCAA (2023, 19th, CHI)

[Rabid Ranger]

Blackbook says that about every center who isn't the archetype of 200 ft center + elite playmaking and vision. I think Fantilli and Moore are both centers. There are loads of centers in the NHL that aren't plus playmakers. I think they're more correct with Smith being unlikely to be a center, the 200 ft issue is more pivotal for centers in my mind. You can all be F1, F2, F3 in the offensive zone but the guy helping his D in his defensive zone has to have some strength and battle level, good defensive details, etc...

You keep saying this (about Smith) but the reality is NHL teams will give creative centers every opportunity to stick in the middle even if they are poor at faceoffs and/or the defensive side of the puck.

 

[Guadana]

I wasn`t writer here, because my lenguage isn`t as good as people can ask. But I like to make a dive in the draft and I think I did it pretty well. I said way before the previous draft, that Gauthier is top-5 pick, Slaf will be number one, that Edvinsson is top talent, Sanderson is top4-5(waited to be picked by Detroit), ranked Stuzle higher than Byfield, Quinn over Holtz. Etc. I made it mostly on the devils theard before because there were a lot of attention to draft in previous years and in home segment of internet.

Now my detroit buddies asked me who they should pick by their 9th pick between Moore and Dvorsky and who is mister Moore potentially, is he a potential Dylan Larkin 2.0? And I made breakdown of one game for him to explain what I`m thinking about him.

- game where he is playing with Leonard on the line

Start of the game, Moore is starting to forecheck opponent. He is seccessfull. But the problem is he open a lot of space in the center zone, he is starting to forecheck in a long distance away from the puck, opoonent could make a pass in the center zone and the next forward could make next pass to the board and they could have good opportunity for break away. At least they screwed. But it was not the great decision from Moore to start to forecheck in this position.

0-24 - 0-40 good shift, a lot of movement, hard work.

in the moment 0-30 he could turn around, make a pass on the blue line and than defenseman could cycle the puck to the open partner. Moore prefered to shoot. Anyway he has good shot and there were a good distance for it.

0-56 , he decided to make a shot, his partner on the net could make a rebound, goalie saw the moment.

He should continue to cycling the puck.

1-48 - 1-50. Now we can see who is playing center role in this line in the real. Leonard is driveng the net, using stickhandling and making good pass with nmanipulating of defenseman.

2-12 I have a question to Moore why he made so deep dive into the zone when there were serious opportunity to make a breakaway for opponents, anyway it was a bad play by his partner on the boards, I can understand the gamble of Moore because he had a lot of free space.

2-29. Stupid moment. Moore and his partner should change the zone, but Moore 1) prefer to continue the forecheck 2) he followed the opponent, but he should to cut the space and start to skate right into the net. After that they got scoring moment on their net

2-58 - 2-59 again he is starting to help too soon. His partner had a puck and should make a backhand pass into the center space. They losted the puck.

3-04 great forecheck

Now we talking about IQ. 4-00

He protected the puck and found his partner and made a smart cross ice pass in the open coridor for a shot. It`s not a bad move, it`s a good move, even if the pass wasn`t 100% clean and in the right direction.
But the opponents, who protect USNTDP player behinad the net, started to attack Moore. And Moore could easily make a pass behind the net, where his partner had an opportunity to make open pass for two USNTDP players with no secure.

4-45 - 4-50 great forecheck. 5-10 great baclcheck. They could easily have breakaway moment 3 on 2, but Moore saved the day. 5-15 great body work.

5-26 he and his partners made bad decisions, I see both tried to make a change, both made bad decisions.
And after that we see great PK shift.

8-33 we see a great moment where smart Leonard waiting and making a pass to full speed Moore who is creating scoring chance by his feet.
For this moment we can see a lot of backchecks, forecheck, speed, good 200 foot game.

8-40 - he made wrong decision. need to make a pass to partner on the board
9-47 - lack of puck skill and than - 9-53 he is compensate it by hard work and takeaway
11-40 11-44 we see the same situation in reverse - good forecheck but lost the puck because of puck skills
12-15 12-30 - lack of puck skills and creativity.
12-48 - good idea to make a pass, but again - hand-eye coordination
13-00 finally great play . made a pause and gave a good pass on the shot
13-05 13-09 - again puck skills
13-23 13-25 again if he could have better puck skills. great shot on rebound.
15-00 15-05 okay way to drive the play but it could be better with more control

Overall I like his game, he is forechecking beast, I don`t see an opportunity for bust(only injuries). He should be great third line player at least. And I think he will be great complimentary top-6 player, but I`m not finding a mind\iq to drive the play and create really good scoring opportunities. He isn`t driving the net a lot because his lack of puck skills turn him away. And I think he isn`t felling the pace of offense and can`t find the best opportunity to make situation more dangerous.
I don`t think that he is good answer for a team who is trying to find drive\playmaking force for top-6 line. I believe he could be great pick as complimentary forechecking player for hard minutes and helping your leader to save the puck in offensive zone or clean mistakes.

Sorry for bad english, hope you have a fun.

 

[keppel146]

Likely winger in the nhl, not center according to black book. Found that interesting.

This guy had the best FO win % at the U18 WC for players who took over 100+ draws, at 61%. I think there’s a good chance he plays Center.

 

[MMC]

Welcome to Chicago

 

[Dominance]

Chicago fans surely ecstatic, very possibly plugging the 1C and 2C holes for 15 years in one fell swoop.

Might not have elite potential, but with the elite speed and true 200-foot game Moore seems like an absolute guarantee to be a 2C or excellent 3C. My favourite player from the NTDP this year.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Very excited he fell to 19

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Pretty shocked he was there at #19

Figured he would either sneak into top 10 or be taken 10-14 range

Very happy with pick

 

[MichaelFarrell]

How does Chicago get Bedard and Moore??! What luck!

 

[vildurson]

Chicago fans surely ecstatic, very possibly plugging the 1C and 2C holes for 15 years in one fell swoop.

Might not have elite potential, but with the elite speed and true 200-foot game Moore seems like an absolute guarantee to be a 2C or excellent 3C. My favourite player from the NTDP this year.

They also have Nazar from last year to compete with Moore for second line center spot. Not a bad place to be.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Great draft for Chicago

 

[Dominance]

They also have Nazar from last year to compete with Moore for second line center spot. Not a bad place to be.

Tough to know what Nazar will be after this last season was basically a write-off. I also think Nazar is far better suited to the wing than Moore - you want that speed ranging over every inch of the ice.

As it happens, Nazar was also my favourite NTDP guy of his draft class - not best, but the guy I most enjoyed watching.

 

[Kevin Musto]

1C and 2C secured in one draft.

Plus Chicago already has Nazar.

 

[vildurson]

Tough to know what Nazar will be after this last season was basically a write-off. I also think Nazar is far better suited to the wing than Moore - you want that speed ranging over every inch of the ice.

As it happens, Nazar was also my favourite NTDP guy of his draft class - not best, but the guy I most enjoyed watching.

If I remember right, he(Nazar) had injury for start of the season which kinda washed his season.

For the note, I really liked both of these picks.

Moore is pretty damn good skater. I can see Moore centering a line where Nazar would be playing the complimentary winger role as well.

 

[AmericanDream]

Absolutely thrilled this kid is a Hawk. Was my hope for 19th overall for months and boom! Can't explain how excited I am for this pick.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don't see Moore sticking at center, especially not with the Hawks. 3 first round picks in a row are small centers. Not all are going to stick at center. Bedard is going to be given every chance to play center, so it's probably either Moore or Nazar that moves off center. I'm betting both.

He also doesn't play like a center. I know people love the idea of a guy that's as fast as he is and has such a good motor playing center. He can cover so much of the ice very quickly, but isn't the center supposed to be cerebral and make his teammates better? I'm not saying Moore is exceptionally dumb, but I've always felt like he's just not an overly cerebral player or a driver. He pushes the other team back because of his speed, but he doesn't use his teammates well and doesn't have the raw offensive upside to dominate a game 1 on 1. What I can't get past with Moore is that it seems like he's one of those players that struggles to play well with other good players, and that's usually a bad indicator.

Still think he has his value in the NHL, but I don't see Moore as some big steal at 19. He went around where he should've.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I don't see Moore sticking at center, especially not with the Hawks. 3 first round picks in a row are small centers. Not all are going to stick at center. Bedard is going to be given every chance to play center, so it's probably either Moore or Nazar that moves off center. I'm betting both.

He also doesn't play like a center. I know people love the idea of a guy that's as fast as he is and has such a good motor playing center. He can cover so much of the ice very quickly, but isn't the center supposed to be cerebral and make his teammates better? I'm not saying Moore is exceptionally dumb, but I've always felt like he's just not an overly cerebral player or a driver. He pushes the other team back because of his speed, but he doesn't use his teammates well and doesn't have the raw offensive upside to dominate a game 1 on 1. What I can't get past with Moore is that it seems like he's one of those players that struggles to play well with other good players, and that's usually a bad indicator.

Still think he has his value in the NHL, but I don't see Moore as some big steal at 19. He went around where he should've.

The fact that Pavel is low on Moore is probably the best sign that he's going to be a very good player.

 

[CraigBillington]

The fact that Pavel is low on Moore is probably the best sign that he's going to be a very good player.

You confused me until I remembered I have him blocked

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The fact that Pavel is low on Moore is probably the best sign that he's going to be a very good player.

I've giving an amnesty for all that I've had differences with over the years now that I'm back, yourself included. If you want to decline that, that's up to you.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I've giving an amnesty for all that I've had differences with over the years now that I'm back, yourself included. If you want to decline that, that's up to you.

Amnesty for what? Defending myself from your false allegations during the summer WJC? Allegations that I proved were false (with detailed receipts). But instead of admitting your mistake, you decided blocked me instead.

I have nothing personal against you, I respect the level of passion and dedication you have for following prospects. Your "fact based" informational posts can be informative, so I hope you don't take what I'm about to say as a personal attack. But you're just flat out bad at evaluating talent, especially for someone who obviously dedicates so much of himself to the prospect forum.

There's proof of that in this very thread:

Here is your take on Moore from last May:

I don’t think his skating is ridiculous. I think his motor is, which makes the skating play up. I think his straight ahead speed and pivots are around average, but his feet are always moving.

Overall, I think Moore is a player that NHL teams will like more than fans. Teams want solid contributors with their draft picks. They often will opt for that over potential. Moore will be a second or third liner. Potentially a center, although I’d say winger is more likely. He’ll be able to play in any situation. Nothing flashy, but the motor and IQ are really good and there’s not much wrong with his game.

And now today:

I know people love the idea of a guy that's as fast as he is and has such a good motor playing center. He can cover so much of the ice very quickly, but isn't the center supposed to be cerebral and make his teammates better? I'm not saying Moore is exceptionally dumb, but I've always felt like he's just not an overly cerebral player or a driver. He pushes the other team back because of his speed, but he doesn't use his teammates well and doesn't have the raw offensive upside to dominate a game 1 on 1.

In only 1 year, you went from saying Moore is an "average skater" with "really good IQ" to saying that while he's not exceptionally dumb, he lacks the IQ to be an effective center, even though he's can skate like the wind.

There's nothing wrong with being wrong, but you have to know that when you consistently say stuff like this it's going to have an impact on your reputation. People are going to think you either don't watch these guys (which I don't think is true), or you don't understand what to watch for. Either way, doesn't lead to reliable opinions.

You've been intellectually honest enough at times to admit fault. But I've also seen you double and triple down on bad takes (which sometimes come across as homer-ish), and then lash out at others who don't agree with you.

 

[HawksDub89]

The fact that Pavel is low on Moore is probably the best sign that he's going to be a very good player.

My thoughts exactly lol

Amnesty for what? Defending myself from your false allegations during the summer WJC? Allegations that I proved were false (with detailed receipts). But instead of admitting your mistake, you decided blocked me instead.

I have nothing personal against you, I respect the level of passion and dedication you have for following prospects. Your "fact based" informational posts can be informative, so I hope you don't take what I'm about to say as a personal attack. But you're just flat out bad at evaluating talent, especially for someone who obviously dedicates so much of himself to the prospect forum.

There's proof of that in this very thread:

Here is your take on Moore from last May:

And now today:

In only 1 year, you went from saying Moore is an "average skater" with "really good IQ" to saying that while he's not exceptionally dumb, he lacks the IQ to be an effective center, even though he's can skate like the wind.

There's nothing wrong with being wrong, but you have to know that when you consistently say stuff like this it's going to have an impact on your reputation. People are going to think you either don't watch these guys (which I don't think is true), or you don't understand what to watch for. Either way, doesn't lead to reliable opinions.

You've been intellectually honest enough at times to admit fault. But I've also seen you double and triple down on bad takes (which sometimes come across as homer-ish), and then lash out at others who don't agree with you.

Yikes…

This is what the kids call “bringing the receipts”

Well done

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Amnesty for what? Defending myself from your false allegations during the summer WJC? Allegations that I proved were false (with detailed receipts). But instead of admitting your mistake, you decided blocked me instead.

I have nothing personal against you, I respect the level of passion and dedication you have for following prospects. Your "fact based" informational posts can be informative, so I hope you don't take what I'm about to say as a personal attack. But you're just flat out bad at evaluating talent, especially for someone who obviously dedicates so much of himself to the prospect forum.

There's proof of that in this very thread:

Here is your take on Moore from last May:

And now today:

In only 1 year, you went from saying Moore is an "average skater" with "really good IQ" to saying that while he's not exceptionally dumb, he lacks the IQ to be an effective center, even though he's can skate like the wind.

There's nothing wrong with being wrong, but you have to know that when you consistently say stuff like this it's going to have an impact on your reputation. People are going to think you either don't watch these guys (which I don't think is true), or you don't understand what to watch for. Either way, doesn't lead to reliable opinions.

You've been intellectually honest enough at times to admit fault. But I've also seen you double and triple down on bad takes (which sometimes come across as homer-ish), and then lash out at others who don't agree with you.

I'm willing to move past disagreements I've had with you, but if you are going to then try to throw "gotcha" arguments at me that deliberately conceal what I've said, I'm not going to continue to argue with someone that is so dishonest and is only out there to score victories in internet arguments as opposed to having honest debates about these topics.

I literally admitted I changed my mind on Moore from May of 2022 to November of 22.

I was definitely wrong about his speed watching more of him now.

I don’t love his offensive ability. I don’t see more than low end second line potential. His ceiling may even be more high end third line potential. Between hands, passing, shooting, hockey sense, I don’t see offensive components that look better than NHL average.

The skating/motor is ridiculous, and it’ll make him a valuable NHL’er, but he may be no more than Tyler Motte. I would absolutely not take this guy first round, but I think a team will.

Guess what? Players evolve or sometimes you watch a player more and your opinion of how they play evolves.

And guess what? Since November, my opinion of him has since evolved. What I posted is my current opinion. My opinion will probably continue to evolve.

Sorry, but you don't get to choose for me how my opinions on Oliver Moore evolve, and there's no gotcha that occurred.

And really, if you've watched a lot of Oliver Moore, you'd understand that he's one of those players thats hard to get a good feel for. He has a lot of attributes, but they don't ever all seem to come together to the degree you'd think they should. What's the reason for that? It could be many things. Simon Edvinsson was viewed in that way in his draft. People laughed at the hockey sense questions after he started his D+1 very well, and then his D+2 was kind of uneven, and maybe some of those questions were always valid and people jumped the gun on shutting them down, so the point is that there's nothing wrong with changing opinions. If you follow draft prospects and it seems like you do, you'd understand this shit is hard and players are sometimes all over the place from game to game or season to season. It's easy to see one thing one time, and then something else the next time.

I could very easily come back at you against some of your opinions, but I'm not looking to play any gotcha games against you and I'm not going to be disrespectful enough to say you don't know what to look for. You have your opinions. I have my opinions. I'm willing to be respectful of you where I disagree with what you say. I've given you an amnesty, but it doesn't mean I'm going to waste my time arguing with someone constantly that I see is just here to score gotcha victories against me and is deliberately being disrespectful towards me for no purpose. So really, this is the last chance. You do this again, and I'm done arguing with you for good.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Oliver Moore is a center. He will grow his game into his elite skating.

 

[MichaelFarrell]

I don't see Moore sticking at center, especially not with the Hawks. 3 first round picks in a row are small centers. Not all are going to stick at center. Bedard is going to be given every chance to play center, so it's probably either Moore or Nazar that moves off center. I'm betting both.

He also doesn't play like a center. I know people love the idea of a guy that's as fast as he is and has such a good motor playing center. He can cover so much of the ice very quickly, but isn't the center supposed to be cerebral and make his teammates better? I'm not saying Moore is exceptionally dumb, but I've always felt like he's just not an overly cerebral player or a driver. He pushes the other team back because of his speed, but he doesn't use his teammates well and doesn't have the raw offensive upside to dominate a game 1 on 1. What I can't get past with Moore is that it seems like he's one of those players that struggles to play well with other good players, and that's usually a bad indicator.

Still think he has his value in the NHL, but I don't see Moore as some big steal at 19. He went around where he should've.

I agree with that for the most part. I don’t think Moore is a center. But, if you put him on the same line as either Perreault, Smith, or Leonard, I think you might see a bit more playmaking ability.

I like Ryan Fine and Danny Nelson, but they aren’t guys who are super dangerous in the offensive zone. I felt like Moore never really had much chemistry with any linemate he was given.

I do think he’s a bit of a steal at 19. He has some amazing tools and is already a defensively responsible player. Is he a center? Probably not a first line center. But he has the skating and defensive game. You most likely get more value from picking him rather than picking Barlow, Honzek, But, Wood, etc.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

My thoughts exactly lol



Yikes…

This is what the kids call “bringing the receipts”

Well done

Did you even know who Oliver Moore was before last week?

Given that you weren't able to sift through what I've previously said and fell for his concealments of posts I've made, you seem to be the exact type of audience the dishonest "gotcha" arguments are meant for. Well done for being part of such a "special" group!

 

[TheGreenTBer]

I wasn`t writer here, because my lenguage isn`t as good as people can ask. But I like to make a dive in the draft and I think I did it pretty well. I said way before the previous draft, that Gauthier is top-5 pick, Slaf will be number one, that Edvinsson is top talent, Sanderson is top4-5(waited to be picked by Detroit), ranked Stuzle higher than Byfield, Quinn over Holtz. Etc. I made it mostly on the devils theard before because there were a lot of attention to draft in previous years and in home segment of internet.

Now my detroit buddies asked me who they should pick by their 9th pick between Moore and Dvorsky and who is mister Moore potentially, is he a potential Dylan Larkin 2.0? And I made breakdown of one game for him to explain what I`m thinking about him.

- game where he is playing with Leonard on the line

View attachment 720020View attachment 720035
Start of the game, Moore is starting to forecheck opponent. He is seccessfull. But the problem is he open a lot of space in the center zone, he is starting to forecheck in a long distance away from the puck, opoonent could make a pass in the center zone and the next forward could make next pass to the board and they could have good opportunity for break away. At least they screwed. But it was not the great decision from Moore to start to forecheck in this position.

0-24 - 0-40 good shift, a lot of movement, hard work.
View attachment 720022
in the moment 0-30 he could turn around, make a pass on the blue line and than defenseman could cycle the puck to the open partner. Moore prefered to shoot. Anyway he has good shot and there were a good distance for it.

0-56 , he decided to make a shot, his partner on the net could make a rebound, goalie saw the moment. View attachment 720024
He should continue to cycling the puck.

View attachment 720026
1-48 - 1-50. Now we can see who is playing center role in this line in the real. Leonard is driveng the net, using stickhandling and making good pass with nmanipulating of defenseman.

View attachment 720027
2-12 I have a question to Moore why he made so deep dive into the zone when there were serious opportunity to make a breakaway for opponents, anyway it was a bad play by his partner on the boards, I can understand the gamble of Moore because he had a lot of free space.

View attachment 720031
2-29. Stupid moment. Moore and his partner should change the zone, but Moore 1) prefer to continue the forecheck 2) he followed the opponent, but he should to cut the space and start to skate right into the net. After that they got scoring moment on their net

View attachment 720034
2-58 - 2-59 again he is starting to help too soon. His partner had a puck and should make a backhand pass into the center space. They losted the puck.

3-04 great forecheck

Now we talking about IQ. 4-00
View attachment 720036View attachment 720037
He protected the puck and found his partner and made a smart cross ice pass in the open coridor for a shot. It`s not a bad move, it`s a good move, even if the pass wasn`t 100% clean and in the right direction.
But the opponents, who protect USNTDP player behinad the net, started to attack Moore. And Moore could easily make a pass behind the net, where his partner had an opportunity to make open pass for two USNTDP players with no secure.
View attachment 720039

4-45 - 4-50 great forecheck. 5-10 great baclcheck. They could easily have breakaway moment 3 on 2, but Moore saved the day. 5-15 great body work.

5-26 he and his partners made bad decisions, I see both tried to make a change, both made bad decisions.
And after that we see great PK shift.

8-33 we see a great moment where smart Leonard waiting and making a pass to full speed Moore who is creating scoring chance by his feet.
For this moment we can see a lot of backchecks, forecheck, speed, good 200 foot game.

8-40 - he made wrong decision. need to make a pass to partner on the board
9-47 - lack of puck skill and than - 9-53 he is compensate it by hard work and takeaway
11-40 11-44 we see the same situation in reverse - good forecheck but lost the puck because of puck skills
12-15 12-30 - lack of puck skills and creativity.
12-48 - good idea to make a pass, but again - hand-eye coordination
13-00 finally great play . made a pause and gave a good pass on the shot
13-05 13-09 - again puck skills
13-23 13-25 again if he could have better puck skills. great shot on rebound.
15-00 15-05 okay way to drive the play but it could be better with more control

Overall I like his game, he is forechecking beast, I don`t see an opportunity for bust(only injuries). He should be great third line player at least. And I think he will be great complimentary top-6 player, but I`m not finding a mind\iq to drive the play and create really good scoring opportunities. He isn`t driving the net a lot because his lack of puck skills turn him away. And I think he isn`t felling the pace of offense and can`t find the best opportunity to make situation more dangerous.
I don`t think that he is good answer for a team who is trying to find drive\playmaking force for top-6 line. I believe he could be great pick as complimentary forechecking player for hard minutes and helping your leader to save the puck in offensive zone or clean mistakes.

Sorry for bad english, hope you have a fun.

Hey man, don't let the fact that English isn't your first language stop you, this is a great post.

Real, honest effort and I didn't have any trouble understanding any of it. Thank you for some good analysis.