C Oliver Moore - University of Minnesota , NCAA (2023, 19th, CHI)

[GermanSpitfire]

I'm willing to move past disagreements I've had with you, but if you are going to then try to throw "gotcha" arguments at me that deliberately conceal what I've said, I'm not going to continue to argue with someone that is so dishonest and is only out there to score victories in internet arguments as opposed to having honest debates about these topics.

I literally admitted I changed my mind on Moore from May of 2022 to November of 22.


Guess what? Players evolve or sometimes you watch a player more and your opinion of how they play evolves.

And guess what? Since November, my opinion of him has since evolved. What I posted is my current opinion. My opinion will probably continue to evolve.

Sorry, but you don't get to choose for me how my opinions on Oliver Moore evolve, and there's no gotcha that occurred.

And really, if you've watched a lot of Oliver Moore, you'd understand that he's one of those players thats hard to get a good feel for. He has a lot of attributes, but they don't ever all seem to come together to the degree you'd think they should. What's the reason for that? It could be many things. Simon Edvinsson was viewed in that way in his draft. People laughed at the hockey sense questions after he started his D+1 very well, and then his D+2 was kind of uneven, and maybe some of those questions were always valid and people jumped the gun on shutting them down, so the point is that there's nothing wrong with changing opinions. If you follow draft prospects and it seems like you do, you'd understand this shit is hard and players are sometimes all over the place from game to game or season to season. It's easy to see one thing one time, and then something else the next time.

I could very easily come back at you against some of your opinions, but I'm not looking to play any gotcha games against you and I'm not going to be disrespectful enough to say you don't know what to look for. You have your opinions. I have my opinions. I'm willing to be respectful of you where I disagree with what you say. I've given you an amnesty, but it doesn't mean I'm going to waste my time arguing with someone constantly that I see is just here to score gotcha victories against me and is deliberately being disrespectful towards me for no purpose. So really, this is the last chance. You do this again, and I'm done arguing with you for good.

Love this response, the bolded in particular.

It’s so, so important in prospect evaluation to not become stubborn to an opinion you once had of a player. Changing your opinion is never a bad thing.

 

[Guadana]

Hey man, don't let the fact that English isn't your first language stop you, this is a great post.

Real, honest effort and I didn't have any trouble understanding any of it. Thank you for some good analysis.

Thanks for your words,it's very pleasant.Moore is very interesting to analyze because he has some obvious advantages and some sneaky issues he covers/compensate pretty greatly. It should be interesting to watch how he will develop his game and how he will translate it. I believe Chicago should develop forechecking winger in him to make Bedard’s life easier.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Thanks for your words,it's very pleasant.Moore is very interesting to analyze because he has some obvious advantages and some sneaky issues he covers/compensate pretty greatly. It should be interesting to watch how he will develop his game and how he will translate it. I believe Chicago should develop forechecking winger in him to make Bedard’s life easier.

We need more posts like yours, not less, on this forum.

I am not good at learning languages because I am afraid of making a mistake. You are doing the right thing...you are not afraid to try.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I agree with that for the most part. I don’t think Moore is a center. But, if you put him on the same line as either Perreault, Smith, or Leonard, I think you might see a bit more playmaking ability.

I like Ryan Fine and Danny Nelson, but they aren’t guys who are super dangerous in the offensive zone. I felt like Moore never really had much chemistry with any linemate he was given.

I do think he’s a bit of a steal at 19. He has some amazing tools and is already a defensively responsible player. Is he a center? Probably not a first line center. But he has the skating and defensive game. You most likely get more value from picking him rather than picking Barlow, Honzek, But, Wood, etc.

That's fair. Nelson is decent, but nothing great. Brings the complimentary elements, but doesn't really drive play or have very high end skill. Fine is an okay junior player, but didn't get drafted for a reason. The counter point to that would be that he was on a line with Hagens and Eiserman for a bunch, and wasn't able to succeed there either, so they moved him off that line. So that's kind of similar to being on that top line. It may all just be a coincidence, and I'm not saying it's determinative about what Moore will become, but it makes you think why he hasn't stuck or made it work with other top players yet.

I think he's a fine pick at 19. I just feel like we saw him fairly drop in the latter part of the season. Everyone became enamored with the skating in the early and middle part of the season, and thought "wow, maybe he's the next Stuetzle", but then as the season unfolded and he struggled to gel with any line-mates (great, middling, bad), I thought some of the flaws in his game started coming out more and being nitpicked more. Maybe he'll overcome those and prove people wrong, but as Smith rose in the second half of the season and Leonard did too (theoretically Perreault also kind of did, although we know small skilled players always fall on draft-day), Moore kind of earned a little bit of a slide the last couple months of the season for the kind of reasons mentioned.

 

[Goldenhands]

Oliver Moore is a swiss knife, he can play center, but I think he might be more offensively productive on the wing. He is going to be the motor on his line no matter if its on the wing or down the middle.

 

[HawksDub89]

Did you even know who Oliver Moore was before last week?

Given that you weren't able to sift through what I've previously said and fell for his concealments of posts I've made, you seem to be the exact type of audience the dishonest "gotcha" arguments are meant for. Well done for being part of such a "special" group!

Likely fallers for the 2023 draft

Are you a really good player under 5'11"? Welcome to the slide of Draft Day Prejudice!

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Darkstar]

Oliver Moore is a center. He will grow his game into his elite skating.

His playmaking will have to develop more to be a 2nd line center. Otherwise, he'll end up a 3rd line center or a winger. He's going to a good program and he's a very hard worker, so there's no reason to believe he can't evolve his offensive game, at this point.

 

[majormajor]

You don't have to be that good at playmaking to play center in the NHL. In my experience, the guys that coaches give up on at center and slide to wing are the ones that can't defend. Meanwhile centers that don't make a lot of plays are often paired with strong playmaking wings.

Off the top of my head, I can think of Bennett centering Huberdeau or Tkachuk, or Jenner or previously Monahan centering Gaudreau. Oliver Moore is at least as good a playmaker as those guys and actually much better in transitioning through the neutral zone than any of them.

 

[snipes]

Love this response, the bolded in particular.

It’s so, so important in prospect evaluation to not become stubborn to an opinion you once had of a player. Changing your opinion is never a bad thing.

It’s that way in life as well. Applies as a universal maxim.

Being willing to accept new information, challenge your old beliefs, and adapt your conclusions based on analyzing new information inputs is the mark of intellectual humility.

 

[Breakers]

Snipe Show in his first game
Looks the defender off
I didnt know if they were going to do it, but he is with snuggerud, and they look good.
They've had a couple shifts of long possessions and good cycles.

 

[CallMeShaft]

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Who was the other forward on his line besides Snuggerud.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Who was the other forward on his line besides Snuggerud.

Looks like Mason Nevers

 

[Breakers]

His speed just backs defenses right off having to respect it

 

[Breakers]

3 guys chasing and staring right at him........ backhand sauce

 

[William H Bonney]

The skating is always mesmerizing. Glad to see him having a strong start to his NCAA career. While Cooley leaving was a huge blow to Minnesota's championship aspirations, it's the best thing that could have happened for Moore's development.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

The skating is always mesmerizing. Glad to see him having a strong start to his NCAA career. While Cooley leaving was a huge blow to Minnesota's championship aspirations, it's the best thing that could have happened for Moore's development.

I'd make that trade.

 

[Boonk]

Bedard and Moore up the middle is going to be so frustrating for defenders to deal with when Chicago comes up on the schedule in the future. Bedard is just going to be shooting and creating offense every time he has the puck on his line, and the next line will have Moore speeding through and around the ice pincering defenders and setting up plays at will. Once Chicago drafts and signs some wingers worth a damn, good luck to everyone lol.

 

[MTU34]

Bedard and Moore up the middle is going to be so frustrating for defenders to deal with when Chicago comes up on the schedule in the future. Bedard is just going to be shooting and creating offense every time he has the puck on his line, and the next line will have Moore speeding through and around the ice pincering defenders and setting up plays at will. Once Chicago drafts and signs some wingers worth a damn, good luck to everyone lol.

If Bedard and Moore are the top 6 centers then Reichel and Nazar are likely on their wings

 

[wetcoast]

If Bedard and Moore are the top 6 centers then Reichel and Nazar are likely on their wings

Plus they have 4 first round picks over the next 2 drafts, could go as well as the last rebuild in the Windy City.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Plus they have 4 first round picks over the next 2 drafts, could go as well as the last rebuild in the Windy City.

Need to just stay the course. No rush jobs hopefully

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

If Bedard and Moore are the top 6 centers then Reichel and Nazar are likely on their wings

Can’t have two top 6 centers sub 6’0. Moore will be on the wing.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Can’t have two top 6 centers sub 6’0. Moore will be on the wing.

What was his faceoffs today?

 

[Mrfenn92]

Can’t have two top 6 centers sub 6’0. Moore will be on the wing.

He’s a center

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He’s a center

Besides the point.