C Nico Hischier - Halifax Mooseheads, QMJHL (2017, 1st, NJD) II

[NHL Dude 120]

The top 9 next year is probably looking something like...

Lindblom-Giroux-Voracek
Konecny-Couturier-Schenn
Filppula-2ndOverall-Simmonds

...so if he could come in, and play C immediately, he would be playing with quality players for sure.

Tbh in this situation its not really that bad of a way to ease either in. Simmonds isnt a scrub and filppula could be a good mentor to him.

 

[Rebels57]

Tbh in this situation its not really that bad of a way to ease either in. Simmonds isnt a scrub and filppula could be a good mentor to him.

Filppula and Simmonds displayed some good chemistry after Val joined the team at the end of last season as well. They had Jordan Weal on the LW, who potted 8 goals in 23 games playing mostly with that duo. You could have Hischier or Patrick on LW with Val at Center or vice versa and it could still be a really good 3rd line.

 

[NHL Dude 120]

Filppula and Simmonds displayed some good chemistry after Val joined the team at the end of last season as well. They had Jordan Weal on the LW, who potted 8 goals in 23 games playing mostly with that duo. You could have Hischier or Patrick on LW with Val at Center or vice versa and it could still be a really good 3rd line.

Thanks I don't watch the Flyers much, my only point im making is Hischer won't be playing with scrubs so its ok to keep him on the 3rd line.

 

[BurntToast]

Since many Flyers fans are on the page. I will say he reminds me of Simon Gagné.

 

[Curufinwe]

I'd take Gagne without all the injuries, even though he ended up a LW.

 

[Tripod]

Since many Flyers fans are on the page. I will say he reminds me of Simon Gagné.

We would take that all day long if he fell to #2 and we took him.

But I do see him being a C in the future.

 

[Cyborg LeClair]

Since many Flyers fans are on the page. I will say he reminds me of Simon Gagné.

I would love to add the purest shooter Peter Forsberg has ever seen

 

[Grant McCagg]

Here is a free look at Hischier's profile for one night only...gives you a good idea why Recrutes has him ranked #1. Proud to say I was the first scout to rank Hico #1 back in November..took a lot of heat for it at the time but stuck to my guns.:

https://recrutes.ca/profile/nico-hischier/

 

[MeanMugging91]

Here is a free look at Hischier's profile for one night only...gives you a good idea why Recrutes has him ranked #1. Proud to say I was the first scout to rank Hico #1 back in November..took a lot of heat for it at the time but stuck to my guns.:

https://recrutes.ca/profile/nico-hischier/

well done. Nice little read for sure. I know if I had a top two pick I'd be licking my chops. It definitely sounds like he has the attitude a coach would absolutely love.

 

[RememberTheName]

On Patrick:

"He's a big centerman with scoring touch, a play-making touch, but also is very responsible away from the puck, which is nice to see," Castron told NJ Advance Media. "A lot of times in juniors, you get players who are only concentrating on getting points and putting up points. He's a very well-rounded player at a young age."

"He's got the blood line," Castron said. "So he's got some nice people to lean on for hockey advice. He's definitely a very, very skilled offensive player."



On Hischier:

"He was on a bit of a weaker team that probably wasn't expected to do much, and he was a big reason why they were able to make the playoffs," Castron said. "He's another player who really does compete on both sides of the puck. He's maybe a little more dynamic in the way he scores and sets up plays."

"He just plays the game with so much intensity and brings a high-end skill level with him," Castron said. "He's one of those kids, he wants the puck in pressure situations and he wants to make a difference, and the majority of the time, he does make a difference."


Small sample, maybe my own bias, but that sounds like he leans Hischier.

Some stuff that was from the Devils board from Devils head scout David Castron. He seems to value skilled players highly, and seems to value Hischier greatly here. Sounds like he favor him a little bit right now with the stuff he is saying about him

 

[zharkenby]

Agree that he sounds higher on Nico... I really want the devils to take him but I doubt it will happen.

 

[JA]

Here is a free look at Hischier's profile for one night only...gives you a good idea why Recrutes has him ranked #1. Proud to say I was the first scout to rank Hico #1 back in November..took a lot of heat for it at the time but stuck to my guns.:

https://recrutes.ca/profile/nico-hischier/

Well, not entirely. You backed off of ranking Nico #1 very quickly because of a few lean games in December and dropped him back down to #3.

 

[BruinLVGA]

Shots fired...

 

[Blender]

I'm going to assume by 'stuck to my guns', he meant that he defended his opinion and provided his rationale for his ranking. Not that he blindly left Hischier as #1 in perpetuity after putting him there.

 

[Aceboogie]

Well, not entirely. You backed off of ranking Nico #1 very quickly because of a few lean games in December and dropped him back down to #3.

This is my problem with his perpetual draft rankins hes rolled out this year. Updates it every few games in what seems to be knee jerk reactions. But when draft comes there will 1000 of permuations and combinations for his top 15 rankings and at least one combination will be right so he can say "aah I had him in this spot at one time". 100 misses but 1 success and that 1 success will be remembered or promoted

 

[JA]

I'm going to assume by 'stuck to my guns', he meant that he defended his opinion and provided his rationale for his ranking. Not that he blindly left Hischier as #1 in perpetuity after putting him there.

I remain puzzled by the decision to demote Hischier to #3 in December. His play never wavered. In fact, in his final game before the World Junior break, Hischier recorded 8 shots on goal against Cape Breton. It was pretty clear at the World Juniors and upon his return in January that his game had not changed since the November ranking was released.

The November ranking was released on November 18, 2016. At that point, Hischier had scored 34 points in 21 games (1.62 points per game) with the Mooseheads.

The December ranking was released on December 14, 2016. Between the November and December rankings, Hischier scored 14 points in 10 games (1.4 points per game).

It seems that a slightly-lower points-per-game average over a handful of games was enough for him to retract his November ranking of Hischier. Patrick didn't even have to play another game; instead, a few games in December were apparently enough for Grant to lose confidence in everything that Hischier had done up to that point.

Casey Mittelstadt also miraculously jumped up four spots after returning to Eden Prairie High School on November 14, 2016 from the USHL; Eden Prairie's season did not start until December 1, 2016, so Mittelstadt played no hockey in the second half of November. His play at the USHL level was only good enough for the #6 ranking in November, but it seems that four games' worth of Mittelstadt's play at the high school level in December was more impressive than Hischier's play during that span, enough so to overtake him in the Top 2.

https://www.mckeenshockey.com/prospects-blog/mckeens-2017-top-30-nhl-draft-rankings-nov-2016-swiss/

McKeen’s 2017 Top 30 NHL Draft Rankings (Nov-2016) – The Swiss Can’t Miss
By McKeen's Hockey On November 18, 2016 ·

...

Brandon center Nolan Patrick has battled injury this season, so through no fault of his own, he has dropped to number two in the rankings thanks to Hischier's scintillating play. Patrick will still have plenty of opportunities to reclaim his number one status once he gets back into the swing of things in the WHL .

...

1 Nico Hischier
2 Nolan Patrick
3 Michael Rasmussen
4 Timothy Liljegren
5 Klim Kostin
6 Casey Mittelstadt

...

https://www.mckeenshockey.com/prospects-blog/mckeens-2017-top-30-nhl-draft-rankings-dec-2016-makar-breaks/

McKeen’s 2017 Top 30 NHL Draft Rankings (Dec-2016) – Makar breaks
By McKeen's Hockey On December 14, 2016 ·

...

1 Nolan Patrick
2 Casey Mittelstadt
3 Nico Hischier
4 Michael Rasmussen
5 Elias Pettersson
6 Juuso Valimaki

...

https://www.nhl.com/news/2017-draft-prospect-casey-mittelstadt-earns-ushl-honor/c-283503524

2017 Draft: Casey Mittelstadt earns USHL honor
A-rated skater named Forward of the Week, has 12 points during five-game streak
NHL.com @NHL
November 7th, 2016

...

Mittelstadt will rejoin his team at Eden Prairie (Minn.) High School on Nov. 14 to begin preparation for the scholastic season that starts Dec. 1. Eden Prairie lost 5-3 to Wayzata in the 2015-16 Minnesota Class AA state championship game last season. He'll return to Green Bay when his high school season ends.

...

Eden Prairie High School Schedule (2016-17): http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/schedule/team_instance/2102508?subseason=317781

 

[RememberTheName]

I remain puzzled by the decision to demote Hischier to #3 in December.

The November ranking was released on November 18, 2016. At that point, Hischier had scored 34 points in 21 games (1.62 points per game) with the Mooseheads.

The December ranking was released on December 14, 2016. Between the November and December rankings, Hischier scored 14 points in 10 games (1.4 points per game).

It seems that a slightly-lower points-per-game average over a handful of games was enough for him to retract his November ranking of Hischier. Patrick didn't even have to play another game; instead, a few games in December were apparently enough for Grant to lose confidence in everything that Hischier had done up to that point.

Casey Mittelstadt also jumped up five spots over the course of three weeks and Elias Pettersson ten spots.

https://www.mckeenshockey.com/prospects-blog/mckeens-2017-top-30-nhl-draft-rankings-nov-2016-swiss/

https://www.mckeenshockey.com/prospects-blog/mckeens-2017-top-30-nhl-draft-rankings-dec-2016-makar-breaks/

Seems like it was a panic move to be honest. Saw that no one else had Hischier above Patrick, put him back on top. Though I don't see the reason that he dropped him to three though

 

[Blender]

I remain puzzled by the decision to demote Hischier to #3 in December.

The November ranking was released on November 18, 2016. At that point, Hischier had scored 34 points in 21 games (1.62 points per game) with the Mooseheads.

The December ranking was released on December 14, 2016. Between the November and December rankings, Hischier scored 14 points in 10 games (1.4 points per game).

It seems that a slightly-lower points-per-game average over a handful of games was enough for him to retract his November ranking of Hischier. Patrick didn't even have to play another game; instead, a few games in December were apparently enough for Grant to lose confidence in everything that Hischier had done up to that point.

Casey Mittelstadt also jumped up five spots over the course of three weeks after returning to Eden Prairie High School on November 14, 2016.

https://www.mckeenshockey.com/prospects-blog/mckeens-2017-top-30-nhl-draft-rankings-nov-2016-swiss/

https://www.mckeenshockey.com/prospects-blog/mckeens-2017-top-30-nhl-draft-rankings-dec-2016-makar-breaks/

Another strawman, how typical. Arguing whether he was right to move him to #3 or not isn't relevant to you claiming that he called Hischier at #1 and kept him there the entire time. That isn't what he said.

 

[JA]

Another strawman, how typical. Arguing whether he was right to move him to #3 or not isn't relevant to you claiming that he called Hischier at #1 and kept him there the entire time. That isn't what he said.

He claimed to have "stuck to his guns," which implies that he had enough conviction to defend his decision to rank Hischier #1.

He didn't even have enough conviction to feel justified keeping him there above a player who had not played in over two months and whose pedigree had not changed. When pressed about Hischier's play, he questioned the legitimacy of his own ranking: "who's to say he was #1?" He did not stick to his guns. He undermined and disputed his own opinion, which suggests that not even he believed his words. How could he face the adversity of others' opinions when his wasn't even stable? How did he "stick to his guns" when he was critical of his own ranking?

He did not defend his opinion -- he abandoned it and then denounced it.

I'm going to assume by 'stuck to my guns', he meant that he defended his opinion and provided his rationale for his ranking. Not that he blindly left Hischier as #1 in perpetuity after putting him there.

He offered no defense of his decision to rank him #1. He was not ready to defend his opinion. Within a matter of a few games his entire case appeared to crumble from his perspective. Hence, Hischier fell two spots below a player who had logged zero games by that point since early October, and one who had logged just four at the high school level between the two monthly rankings. One does not "stick to their guns" if they are prepared to bend so easily and take a drastically different stance at the next moment. He ranked him #1 on a whim and then second-guessed himself. That's not "sticking to his guns."

stick to your guns

to continue to have your beliefs or continue with a plan of action, even if other people disagree with you:
Despite harsh criticism, she's sticking to her guns on this issue.

(Definition of “stick to your guns” from the Cambridge Advanced Learner’s Dictionary & Thesaurus © Cambridge University Press)

 

[Edmonton East]

Posted the below in response to a mainboard thread where the poll was 95% to 5% MacKinnon over Nico in respective draft year performance. Thread is now locked naturally, but I still see the Nico vs MacK comparisons being thrown around and I don't think the consensus that it's MacKinnon by a mile is fair at all (as a better prospect).

"MacKinnon team GF 347 in 68 games
Nico team GF 229 in 68 games

And people think you can compare the two's production and reach a definitive answer? Get out of here.

Let's roughly adjust for player GP and team GF.

MacKinnon: (347/68)*44 GP = 224.51 GF opportunity
Nico: (229/68)*57 GP = 191.96 GF opportunity

% of team goals scored = PlayerG/GF opportunity approximation
Mack: 14.3%
Nico: 19.8%

% of goals influenced = PlayerP/GF opportunity approximation
Mack: 33.4%
Nico: 44.8%

Again, I really, really don't think this poll should be this lopsided and I think it's impossible to compare the two given the circumstances."

 

[93LEAFS]

Posted the below in response to a mainboard thread where the poll was 95% to 5% MacKinnon over Nico in respective draft year performance. Thread is now locked naturally, but I still see the Nico vs MacK comparisons being thrown around and I don't think the consensus that it's MacKinnon by a mile is fair at all (as a better prospect).

"MacKinnon team GF 347 in 68 games
Nico team GF 229 in 68 games

And people think you can compare the two's production and reach a definitive answer? Get out of here.

Let's roughly adjust for player GP and team GF.

MacKinnon: (347/68)*44 GP = 224.51 GF opportunity
Nico: (229/68)*57 GP = 191.96 GF opportunity

% of team goals scored = PlayerG/GF opportunity approximation
Mack: 14.3%
Nico: 19.8%

% of goals influenced = PlayerP/GF opportunity approximation
Mack: 33.4%
Nico: 44.8%

Again, I really, really don't think this poll should be this lopsided and I think it's impossible to compare the two given the circumstances."

Okay, there are a couple of issues at play.

Firstly, players who primarily benefit from playing on high-scoring offenses are players who are complimentary in a role, not the primary scorers. The other is, it completely ignores ice-time, which players good players on bad teams tend to get more of because they stack one-line.

The other key aspect of Mackinnon's jr career this overlooks is his performance in the playoffs and memorial cup.

I don't think Hischier would challenge MacKinnon in the opinion of people who actually scouted the QMJHL at that period or by looking at his numbers.

There is a correlation between the ability to score at the junior level and the ability to score at the NHL level. I have yet to see someone prove that percentage of gf% matters significantly when projecting to the next level.

 

[Edmonton East]

Okay, there are a couple of issues at play.

Firstly, players who primarily benefit from playing on high-scoring offenses are players who are complimentary in a role, not the primary scorers. The other is, it completely ignores ice-time, which players good players on bad teams tend to get more of because they stack one-line.

The other key aspect of Mackinnon's jr career this overlooks is his performance in the playoffs and memorial cup.

I don't think Hischier would challenge MacKinnon in the opinion of people who actually scouted the QMJHL at that period or by looking at his numbers.

There is a correlation between the ability to score at the junior level and the ability to score at the NHL level. I have yet to see someone prove that percentage of gf% matters significantly when projecting to the next level.

To address your minutes comment, agreed. But that isn't cut and dry either because then you get into the argument of diminishing return. Ie if player A is being ridden into the ground at 24 minutes a night, he isn't at optimal performance. But figuring out an adjustment for that would be subjective due to several variables.

And the first part discussing complimentary vs primary is subjective and doesn't make sense. But you've been consistently anti-Nico so I suppose that's why you said it. Rest of post is fair.

 

[93LEAFS]

To address your minutes comment, agreed. But that isn't cut and dry either because then you get into the argument of diminishing return. Ie if player A is being ridden into the ground at 24 minutes a night, he isn't at optimal performance. But figuring out an adjustment for that would be subjective due to several variables.

And the first part discussing complimentary vs primary is subjective and doesn't make sense. But you've been consistently anti-Nico so I suppose that's why you said it. Rest of post is fair.

I'm not anti-Nico, but I do think people are overhyping him at this point. Mackinnon is pretty clearly the better prospect. Its not being anti-Nico saying this draft is weak and that he isn't as great a prospect at MacKinnon or Drouin.

Secondary scorers percentage of points tends to stay relative when they change teams, that doesn't tend to be true for players who drive offense like Mackinnon and Hischier. It affects someone like Martin Frk for example more than high-level scorers.

I get it, you are Devils fan and want to convince yourself he's a clear franchise talent, your free to do so. But, don't expect everyone to agree with you when there are tons of things to point to that make him look like a 5th to 10th overall guy in most draft years.

For example, guys like A. Nylander accounted for more offense than Tkachuk and Dubois last year (with both having higher percentages than Mackinnon). I don't think any of them were better prospects than Mackinnon. In this case, actually having a high-end teammate may have hurt MacKinnon in this metric because Drouin was capable of putting up big numbers without him. Mackinnon actually accounted for less of teams offense as a 2nd-year player than he did as a rookie if you divide his ppg by his teams gpg.

 

[Patmac40]

Not a chance I'd take Nico over Nate based on their draft years especially with Nate's performance in the playoffs and Memorial Cup. I'd still take Nico first overall this year.

 

[Edmonton East]

I get it, you are Devils fan and want to convince yourself he's a clear franchise talent, your free to do so. But, don't expect everyone to agree with you when there are tons of things to point to that make him look like a 5th to 10th overall guy in most draft years.

For example, guys like A. Nylander accounted for more offense than Tkachuk and Dubois last year (with both having higher percentages than Mackinnon). I don't think any of them were better prospects than Mackinnon. In this case, actually having a high-end teammate may have hurt MacKinnon in this metric because Drouin was capable of putting up big numbers without him. Mackinnon actually accounted for less of teams offense as a 2nd-year player than he did as a rookie if you divide his ppg by his teams gpg.

No, I don't think he is a clear franchise talent. I don't think Patrick is either. So we can knock off that nonsense. My post was pretty straightforward. How are people concluding MacKinnon was a better prospect by a mile when the team makeup was so different? And when Hischier was the clear cut sole driver of his team in his first NA season? I don't get it. The majority of people seem to keep trying to compare production between the two, completely ignoring the fact that one played on a team that scored over 100 more goals. It's silly.

I actually don't even know why I'm trying to make this point on this site. I should know better. Canadian born jr player Vs Swiss born jr player that has only played in NA 1 year. But yea, I'm sure that poll being 95% to 5% had nothing to do with that.