Yep enough with the WJC dropped so and so's stock. It's pure BS. Same as it raising players stock. It's too short of a tournament to use in rankings. Maybe a tiny tiny raise/drop but you use the full season to judge a player not a couple games.
C Mitchell Marner - London Knights, OHL (2015, 4th, TOR) IV
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Atomos2
Registered User
"As he gets stronger he'll get faster" - Sheer speculation. But an admission he needs to get faster and the tournament showed that. Many at the tournament already have NHL speed. That's the comparison being made and why the tournament raises questions.
Wellwood had huge creativity and vision. Was a decent NHL player (played nearly 500 games) who might have been more had he conditioned himself better and not suffered some difficult injuries. Was a dominant Junior like Marner and a player that always relied on guile and great play making ability to survive. Marner comparison is totally correct in terms of what these types of players bring to the table. And if Marner gets banged around (likely) then he might have much the same career as Wellwood. You certainly at this point have no idea that this won't be true other than the blind hope he won't go much the same route.
You say its hard to top his production last year suggesting he hasn't improved this year and then say he has shown lots of improvement. Beyond the obvious contradiction you don't provide any evidence to back up anything. Just say he has improved and he will improve in the NHL. It's like you just saying it somehow makes it true. Seems obviously a case of what you want to be true rather than based on any sort of explanation as to why it is true.
We all want to defend our prospects and wishfully think they will become NHL stars. But I think any objective analysis of Marner's play at the WJT raised more concerns about his prospects of becoming a star than they confirmed he will definitely become one. Others, some younger, showed way more potential and in too many cases Marner was forced to the fringes of the play.
Last part of your post was simply an example of getting in a snit when someone say something you don't want to hear.
I don't worry about Marner's straight line speed. He's a smart player and he gets there when he needs to get there.
Impressed with his defensive ability and compete level in the five-on-three PK; broke up two sure goals against.
WTFMAN99
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2009
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It still makes me chuckle that despite being Canada's best player at the tournament he's still getting crapped on.
PWJunior
Stay safe!
It still makes me chuckle that people actually think he was the best player for Canada. He wasn't.
Apotheosis
Registered User
But he was... Consistently the best defensive forward, led the team in scoring despite horrible coaching and no chemistry, and was by far the most clutch player when it counted. Nobody on the team was comparable.
Skinnyjimmy08
WorldTraveler
- Mar 30, 2012
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I am surprised that people think his game was actually good on team Canada. . Sure AT TIMES he was but if those are considered good games for him then I really question his NHL potential. I was expecting way more from him the way he is talked about on here. Sure he is a good player, but I was underwhelmed tbh
But that was just a handful of games. .. I won't make a final judgement on him at all except only saying tjat myself, I was not overly impressed
But that was just a handful of games. .. I won't make a final judgement on him at all except only saying tjat myself, I was not overly impressed
Best player on a ****** team isn't anything to be proud of tbh.
Entire team looked like **** at times, Marner included. Think we need to just forget about the tournament entirely as there clearly was chemistry issues.
Entire team looked like **** at times, Marner included. Think we need to just forget about the tournament entirely as there clearly was chemistry issues.
He was one of, if not the the best, performer on Team Canada. Not sure what point you're trying to make... otherwise you'll be questioning the potential of every player on TC.
Skinnyjimmy08
WorldTraveler
- Mar 30, 2012
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I don't agree he was the best by any means.. good at times but I am just saying I wasn't impressed
Either way he looks good on tv when I watxh him in ohl and should be a dandy eventually!
Were you impressed with anybody? He was consistently one of the best performers on the team. Let's hear the other names you pull out of your hat.
UsernameWasTaken
Let's Go Hawks!
He tied Strome for the team lead in scoring, something I've noticed Leafs fans tend to forget.
Also, how was he "by far the most clutch player when it counted"? Because of the two third period goals in the quarterfinals? Because the penalty he took at the end of the period to negate a power play was decidedly "unclutch" of him.
People saying he had a bad tournament are just ridiculous. He was one of the best players, albeit on an underachieving team. But let's not exaggerate his play - it was very uneven and there were definitely bad moments mixed in with the good.
Skinnyjimmy08
WorldTraveler
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Were you impressed with anybody? He was consistently one of the best performers on the team. Let's hear the other names you pull out of your hat.
Unsure why you are taking such offense to this. It's just my opinion. I knew coming into a leaf prospect thread and giving my opinion would cause a commotion haha... everyone doesn't have to like his game. I've seen him on tv many times in junior and thought he was deadly. I just thought he was underwhelming on team Canada is all
TheLeastOfTheBunch
Franchise Centre
It makes me chuckle how serious some people take the WJCs. A 5-7 game tournament, played on international ice, with random teammates from across the country is apparently enough to throw out the window what Marner has shown in the OHL in his draft and draft+1 seasons so far.
Not trying to talk down on these particular posters, a lot of people from different sports out there put way too much stock in international tourneys over what players show with their domestic clubs.
Not trying to talk down on these particular posters, a lot of people from different sports out there put way too much stock in international tourneys over what players show with their domestic clubs.
I'm not taking offence at all. You came in here saying you question Marner's NHL potential based on his play in the WJC and I responded by asking you who you were impressed with. . . because it was clear to me and many others that Marner was one of the top performers on the team.
Apotheosis
Registered User
Still a lead even if tied. They tied for the lead, hence they're both first. No need to argue dumb semantics.
Because in the most important game for Canada in the entire tournament, he scored twice and nearly tied the game all by himself. That's the definition of clutch. And do you mean the penalty that shouldn't have been a penalty? The one where the Finn player punched him twice and didn't get reprimanded at all, yet when Marner punches back once he gets a penalty?
I don't disagree. He started off the tournament VERY slow. You could tell the nerves were getting to him. He was trying to do too much, and it didn't help that his line mates were never on the same wavelength as him. Regardless, he improved as the tournament went on, and I do believe he was the best forward on the team, which doesn't mean much considering the gongshow that the team was. But still the best.
UsernameWasTaken
Let's Go Hawks!
It was an obvious penalty and it was a stupid, undisciplined thing to do at a terrible time.
You complain about Marner's linemates (something I notice people doing a lot) - but you don't mention the fact he seemed completely unable to make basic adjustments to his play.
The lengthy shifts certainly did not help - but that's more the fault of the coach for allowing that to happen.
His tourny was far from perfect, but he was one of the few (along with Strome, Konecny, Barzal and Crouse) who showed flashes and played well. The team was a mess and underachieved, so he clearly could of played better, but I don't think he did anything to damage his stock and performed on par with most 4th overall picks who played at 18.
WTFMAN99
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2009
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People also forget that only a bad angle goal by Strome in the Swiss game is the only thing that kept Dylan with Marner in the scoring race on a bad Team Canada.
Brayden Point was awful and how much can really be said for Queenville or Perlini? Not a whole hell of a lot. Coupled that with being physically under developed I actually feel great about Marner going forward. If he works his core and leg strength he should be a beauty.
I won't boast or stand up for a lot of Leafy things, but our prospects get criminally underrated/bashed on HF. Some Leaf fans take it to the extreme the opposite way, but I don't feel bad in saying I feel like Marner is looking damned good.
UsernameWasTaken
Let's Go Hawks!
How are people forgetting that? Are you suggesting it shouldn't count? Should Marner's points total be reduced because he only registered two points 5v5 and they were against Denmark?
Also, I don't know how you can complain about other people bashing Leafs prospects - you had less than charitable things to say about other prospects during the tournament. You don't seem any different than the people you are complaining about.
There's nothing about Marner's tournament that should make Leafs fans feel anything less than great about Marner. It was a small sample size and he was one of the best players on an incompetently coached team - there were things about his play that he himself could have improved on. But with better coaching I also think he would have produced better results.
Finnish your Czech
J'aime Les offres hostiles
I think the WJCs are an important (but nowhere near the be-all and end-all) tool for measuring how good CHL players are because it's the first time you see them play against high-end competition.
Marner was good at times, but was also poor to bad at times, which is not what we were expecting from him. A player of his pedigree has to dominate a tournament like this, so yes his stock decreased.
However when you take into context the performance of his team -- almost the whole team played poorly. Do you significantly lower the stock of every single player on the team? No, that's not fair. There was clearly a chemistry issue.
Marner was one of the best players on the Canadian team, which is what he was expected to do, so I'd say that helps him in terms of not taking a significant hit to his stock.
Marner was good at times, but was also poor to bad at times, which is not what we were expecting from him. A player of his pedigree has to dominate a tournament like this, so yes his stock decreased.
However when you take into context the performance of his team -- almost the whole team played poorly. Do you significantly lower the stock of every single player on the team? No, that's not fair. There was clearly a chemistry issue.
Marner was one of the best players on the Canadian team, which is what he was expected to do, so I'd say that helps him in terms of not taking a significant hit to his stock.
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