C Marco Rossi - Ottawa 67’s, OHL (2020 Draft)

[Kalv]

I remember when I compared Puljujärvi to Pääjärvi in his draft year. Everyone was like "how dare you?" to me as well. People think these guys can't bust but they do.

Good point. Both were amazing in the WJC`s before draft as well.
What was the reasons for them to bust?

 

[jc17]

I know this maybe a hot take but I see Rossi to more likely be viewed as a bust than almost any of the other top rated guys. It's not that I think he will be a bad player but honestly his ceiling might not be nearly as high as people are projecting, which means he could be perceived as disappointing.

I like Rossi but I agree with what you're saying. He scored a ton so people are probably expecting some dynamic high scoring player, when in reality he could be a really good 2-way 50-60 point player and people would call him a bust. Kind of the Sam Reinhart effect in Buffalo.

Personally I see him as a guy that, when looking back on this draft in a few years, has little to no shot of being considered a top 3 player from this draft, but a pretty high chance being in the top 10.

 

[Tetsuo]

I like Rossi but I agree with what you're saying. He scored a ton so people are probably expecting some dynamic high scoring player, when in reality he could be a really good 2-way 50-60 point player and people would call him a bust. Kind of the Sam Reinhart effect in Buffalo.

Personally I see him as a guy that, when looking back on this draft in a few years, has little to no shot of being considered a top 3 player from this draft, but a pretty high chance being in the top 10.

Sam Reinhart is an excellent comparable for Rossi for me. He's more ready than his peers (physically, mentally, etc) so he scored at a pretty insane clip, but his actual upside is actually really close to how people perceive Lundell. I'm really happy to have a player like them on my team, but I'm not sure if it's worth taking the risk on a sure thing and missing out on a more raw, but higher upside player like Perfetti or Raymond. In short, I think it is a risk to take Rossi or Lundell higher than say 9th or 10th overall, but it quickly becomes a homerun pick outside the top 10.

 

[jc17]

Sam Reinhart is an excellent comparable for Rossi for me. He's more ready than his peers (physically, mentally, etc) so he scored at a pretty insane clip, but his actual upside is actually really close to how people perceive Lundell. I'm really happy to have a player like them on my team, but I'm not sure if it's worth taking the risk on a sure thing and missing out on a more raw, but higher upside player like Perfetti or Raymond. In short, I think it is a risk to take Rossi or Lundell higher than say 9th or 10th overall, but it quickly becomes a homerun pick outside the top 10.

Ultimately in terms of the strategy, I think either way can be argued. You could also look at it and say, if you have a top 10 pick you have to get a contributor, whereas even after 15 the picks are always a toss-up anyway, so you might as well swing big.

I think it also depends on the type of player. For me Rossi has enough offensive upside that I'd be comfortable taking him fairly high, compared to guys like Virtanen and Ritchie that really haven't shown the same level of production.

 

[bsu]

Sam Reinhart is an excellent comparable for Rossi for me. He's more ready than his peers (physically, mentally, etc) so he scored at a pretty insane clip, but his actual upside is actually really close to how people perceive Lundell. I'm really happy to have a player like them on my team, but I'm not sure if it's worth taking the risk on a sure thing and missing out on a more raw, but higher upside player like Perfetti or Raymond. In short, I think it is a risk to take Rossi or Lundell higher than say 9th or 10th overall, but it quickly becomes a homerun pick outside the top 10.

Rossi has drive that Reinhardt does not

 

[ijuka]

I'm not sure if it's worth taking the risk on a sure thing and missing out on a more raw, but higher upside player like Perfetti or Raymond.

So basically boom and bust prospects are the safe picks and it's a risk to pick a safe pick because you might miss out on a boom and bust prospect booming? Interesting perspective.

By the way, equating Rossi's scoring with Reinhart's is like equating a 60 point NHL player with a point per game player.

 

[Whileee]

I'm hoping that Rossi falls to the Jets at #10. He would probably be a good fit with a couple of their skilled forwards - Laine, Ehlers, Connor, Wheeler on the second line (behind Scheifele).

 

[Artorius Horus T]

I know this maybe a hot take but I see Rossi to more likely be viewed as a bust than almost any of the other top rated guys. It's not that I think he will be a bad player but honestly his ceiling might not be nearly as high as people are projecting, which means he could be perceived as disappointing.

We hall have opinions, for me its Raymond, who is most likely going to bust.
Also, i think he falls to around 20 in this draft.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Not sure that I agree with the characterization of Rossi as a high-floor/low-ceiling prospect.

On one hand, he led the OHL in scoring as a really effective two-way center. If that translates, I think the ceiling is pretty damn high.

On the other hand, if he can't overcome his most serious flaws/concerns (size, some elements of his skating, center vs. wing), I'm not sure why the floor is necessarily any higher than players like Raymond or Perfetti.

Among Rossi/Perfetti/Raymond/Holtz, I'm not sure I view any player as more or less "safe" than the other, nor do I see any player as showing a clearly higher ceiling. I think you're just best off weighing the players' skills and weaknesses against each other.

 

[Tetsuo]

Ultimately in terms of the strategy, I think either way can be argued. You could also look at it and say, if you have a top 10 pick you have to get a contributor, whereas even after 15 the picks are always a toss-up anyway, so you might as well swing big.

I think it also depends on the type of player. For me Rossi has enough offensive upside that I'd be comfortable taking him fairly high, compared to guys like Virtanen and Ritchie that really haven't shown the same level of production.

I think that's fair, I'm a little more skeptical on his offensive upside so I'm not as apt to draft him as high. I think the margins between the crop of forwards after the consensus top 3 are pretty close.

Rossi has drive that Reinhardt does not

That's true, but Rossi has physical limitations that Reinhardt lacks.

So basically boom and bust prospects are the safe picks and it's a risk to pick a safe pick because you might miss out on a boom and bust prospect booming? Interesting perspective.

By the way, equating Rossi's scoring with Reinhart's is like equating a 60 point NHL player with a point per game player.

Would you rather have a chance at a player who outperforms their draft position (barring having a 1st OA) or someone who isn't as likely to really improve their long term value? Speaking as a Red Wings fan, there were more than a few who were pissed that we selected Rasmussen where we did back in the day, given who was available and their upside vs his. Ras is also a very driven player and if everything works out he will be a useful middle 6 piece. Even today, I would rather take the gamble on Vilardi's back issues (which weren't an issue on draft day) than Rasmussen.

We hall have opinions, for me its Raymond, who is most likely going to bust.
Also, i think he falls to around 20 in this draft.

That's the lowest I've seen Raymond on anyone's list but he does have some attitude problems that may discount him to some teams. Otherwise, I think he could seriously improve his stock the next month or so and maybe turn the tables again. It will be interesting to see play out.

Not sure that I agree with the characterization of Rossi as a high-floor/low-ceiling prospect.

On one hand, he led the OHL in scoring as a really effective two-way center. If that translates, I think the ceiling is pretty damn high.

On the other hand, if he can't overcome his most serious flaws/concerns (size, some elements of his skating, center vs. wing), I'm not sure why the floor is necessarily any higher than players like Raymond or Perfetti.

Among Rossi/Perfetti/Raymond/Holtz, I'm not sure I view any player as more or less "safe" than the other, nor do I see any player as showing a clearly higher ceiling. I think you're just best off weighing the players' skills and weaknesses against each other.

I see your point but I feel that Rossi's weaknesses push him at or near the bottom of the heap of that cluster of players. I simply don't see him translating his success in the OHL this past season to the NHL. I see his top end projection as being relatively less likely and his low end relatively more likely given his effort level and hockey IQ.

 

[57special]

Raymond has attitude issues?

 

[ijuka]

Good point. Both were amazing in the WJC`s before draft as well.
What was the reasons for them to bust?

Well the reason for Puljujärvi was a lack of hockey IQ.

Would you rather have a chance at a player who outperforms their draft position (barring having a 1st OA) or someone who isn't as likely to really improve their long term value? Speaking as a Red Wings fan, there were more than a few who were pissed that we selected Rasmussen where we did back in the day, given who was available and their upside vs his. Ras is also a very driven player and if everything works out he will be a useful middle 6 piece. Even today, I would rather take the gamble on Vilardi's back issues (which weren't an issue on draft day) than Rasmussen.

I'd rather have the player with the most expected value.

For example, let's say one player is 50% chance to be 50 and 50% chance to be 60. Another is 50% chance to be 0 and 50% chance to be 100. One's expected value is 55, one's 50.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I don’t even view Rossi as a player that is either incredibly low or high upside or incredibly high or low floor. I think he’s not the level of prospect that he is junior hockey player.

 

[foggyvisor]

Is he Gilbert Brulé?

 

[Artorius Horus T]

This thread is about an amazing austrian two-way center, who has tons of skill to give, high hockey IQ
and wins most of the face-offs to boot.

Yet, 75% of the posts are about his height and will he play as a center or not in the NHL...
and few comparing him to mediocre players, just because

A short recap.

D-1 season : 29 goals, 36 assists, 65 points +51 | 1.25 ppg | won 55% of his face-offs | 447 face-off wins
D-season : 39 goals, 81 assists, 120 points +69 | 2.18 ppg | won 59% of his face-offs | 687 face-off wins

The number's do not lie, but they do not tell the whole story either.
Its how he plays, is the most impressive part of him.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

This thread is about an amazing austrian two-way center, who has tons of skill to give, high hockey IQ
and wins most of the face-offs to boot.

Yet, 75% of the posts are about his height and will he play as a center or not in the NHL...
and few comparing him to mediocre players, just because

Fact remains, how many sub 5'10 centers are solid top 6 centers? If he moves to wing I can see him being absolutely lethal, but how successful as a C? big ass points or not.

I think there is something special about Rossi, but the concerns are extremely justified.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Fact remains, how many sub 5'10 centers are solid top 6 centers? If he moves to wing I can see him being absolutely lethal, but how successful as a C? big ass points or not.

I think there is something special about Rossi, but the concerns are extremely justified.

Literally the best player in the eastern conference this postseason is a center that was last officially measured under 5-10.

 

[ijuka]

Fact remains, how many sub 5'10 centers are solid top 6 centers?

How many of those potential top 6 centers under 5'10" who ended up not making it in NHL had similar performance to Rossi's in CHL?

Literally the best player in the eastern conference this postseason is a center that was last officially measured under 5-10.

While that's true, let's remember that if he was 0.5 inches shorter he wouldn't even be a top 6 center in NHL.

 

[bert]

Literally the best player in the eastern conference this postseason is a center that was last officially measured under 5-10.

Who is more noticable in an NHL game than Rossi is in an OHL game. At some point people gotta use the eye test as well as looking at statistics.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Who is more noticable in an NHL game than Rossi is in an OHL game. At some point people gotta use the eye test as well as looking at statistics.

Same could be said of every other prospect in the top 10.

 

[bert]

Same could be said of every other prospect in the top 10.

Not really no, Rossi always gets his points but he isnt a noticable play driver from game to game.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Not really no, Rossi always gets his points but he isnt a noticable play driver from game to game.

He's extremely noticeable to me in the games I've watched...maybe you notice different things than me.

My point is, you can't compare him to arguably the best player in the NHL and not compare the others. No one looks as good in their leagues as Point has in these playoffs.

 

[bert]

He's extremely noticeable to me in the games I've watched...maybe you notice different things than me.

My point is, you can't compare him to arguably the best player in the NHL and not compare the others. No one looks as good in their leagues as Point has in these playoffs.

I guess were seeing different things, I like Rossi alot but dont like the Point comparison personally. Lafreniere, Byfield, Quinn and Perfetti are more noticable game in game out from what I observed. Rossi is incredible effective though, you dont have to be pushing the play all the time to help your team win. He makes alot of subtle plays. Points motor and puck carrying ability is very different from the way Rossi creates offense.

Claude Giroux is a much better comparison for Rossi in my estimation.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I guess were seeing different things, I like Rossi alot but dont like the Point comparison personally. Lafreniere, Byfield, Quinn and Perfetti are more noticable game in game out from what I observed. Rossi is incredible effective though, you dont have to be pushing the play all the time to help your team win. He makes alot of subtle plays. Points motor and puck carrying ability is very different from the way Rossi creates offense.

Claude Giroux is a much better comparison for Rossi in my estimation.

No one was comparing him, just noting that centers can succeed if they are shorter than 6 feet tall.

You starting trotting out this "noticability" factor that no one but you uses to evaluate prospects, which is confusing but whatever. We get it, he's not your favorite prospect...

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Former NHLers and Ottawa area native Serge Payer? Is that his agent? Rossi definitely has a ton of Ottawa ties developing.