C Marco Rossi - Ottawa 67’s, OHL (2020 Draft)

[Doanator]

That's like asking why Luke Glendening doesn't have a better chance to be a top line forward than Anthony Mantha.

"But Glendening tries so hard, he trains so hard, he is so dedicated!" Yeah, and? He's smaller, less skilled, not as strong, doesn't have the vision, and doesn't have the shot that Mantha has, even when Mantha had engagement and effort level question marks, he has something that character can't create.

If we look at Rossi, I personally think he lags behind Raymond or Perfetti in terms of hockey sense/IQ, his shot is lesser, his vision and playmaking is lesser, his skating is not markedly better or worse (depends on how you feel personally).

What you are banking on is that his two way or grinder mindset carries him, but I don't want a grinder mindset to be the differentiating quality in the top 4. Especially when someone that I have ranked higher, Perfetti, who doesn't carry character question marks like Merkley did when SJ drafted him, is available and carries the more important qualities that I am seeking.

Grinder? You are a bull.....er omg

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

There are examples of smaller guys having big impacts, but they all seem to be at wing. I can't think of a small 1C under 5ft10 actually. Are there any? Brayden Point is pretty damn tiny from what I've seen I guess.

For that reason though, I would rather take Perfetti and his amazing hockey IQ. He's most definitely a C in the NHL

You're in the minority of people who think Perfetti is a center instead of a winger at the pro level. His skills lend themselves more to being a dynamic winger than center.

Also, here's some sub 5'10" guys that were pretty good scorers in their primes.
Daniel Briere - 5'9", Approximately 1000 games, 700 points. Once he left Phoenix he was about a point per game performer in Buffalo and Philadelphia.
Steve Sullivan - 5'9", approximately 1000 games, 700 points. Once he left Chicago he was about a point per game performer for Nashville.

Both were centers. Both were effective, even in the dead puck era. In an earlier post someone mentioned a lot of the sub-5'10" players who are effective for their teams currently in the league.

Having watched Rossi, I'm confident he will be effective as a center in the NHL against the bigger players because he's so damn smart on the ice. Here's the draft dynasty and scouching videos that were posted earlier in this thread for a refresher.





Here's All about the jersey draft profile on him.
Marco Rossi: 2020 NHL Draft Prospect Profile; The Awesome Austrian Ace

Here's the last word on hockey scouting report.
Marco Rossi Scouting Report: 2020 NHL Draft #6 - Last Word on Hockey

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

So here's a hypothetical I'd like to ask my fellow posters here; IF Marco Rossi were 6'0" and everything else were the same, how does this effect your outlook on his career potential and draft position?

He'd go 2nd overall. Datsyuk/Giroux like player.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

So here's a hypothetical I'd like to ask my fellow posters here; IF Marco Rossi were 6'0" and everything else were the same, how does this effect your outlook on his career potential and draft position?

Definitely top five. There’s an argument for top 2-3, maybe 1.

 

[lilidk]

I think yes, you can call Rossi grinder, same you could called Datsyuk and Zetterberg. They both high skill grinders.

 

[bsu]

Crosby is a grinder, point is a grinder.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

How does he stack up compared to Monahan?

About a half foot shorter.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Historically there has only been one Austrian born hockey player to surpass 700 points. Could he be the next? It’s possible, but historical trends seem to suggest it is unlikely.

Yeah, and that guy's name wasn't Rossi, so there's basically no chance.

 

[jc17]

You are completely missing the point. I am not stating I know why its important or that I actually am sure it will be for Rossi, but I am saying that recent historical trends say it is. Just like there are trends with players from the London Knights compared to the Flint Firebirds or there are trends with Russian Forwards or Swedish defensemen, 5'10 seems to be the bar where height matters for players being able to play center in the NHL. Why? I don't know, but I think we'd all be stupid to ignore it. Should it mean Rossi should be a 5th rounder? Obviously thats not what I'm stating. I think it needs to be accounted for, and how much is anyone's own personal interpretation of the risks/benefits.

What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object? Rossi's height may be the immovable object but his production is the unstoppable force.

While there might be truth to "there aren't many top-10 pick worthy players players under 5'10" there's also truth to "there aren't many players who produce similarly to Rossi in juniors that wouldnt be worth taking top 10"

So if you can't ignore height as a factor, you certainly cant ignore production, and you have to choose which of those trends you think carries a greater value.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object? Rossi's height may be the immovable object but his production is the unstoppable force.

While there might be truth to "there aren't many top-10 pick worthy players players under 5'10" there's also truth to "there aren't many players who produce similarly to Rossi in juniors that wouldnt be worth taking top 10"

So if you can't ignore height as a factor, you certainly cant ignore production, and you have to choose which of those trends you think carries a greater value.

I never said though that there's a certain number that Rossi can't surpass because of his height. I also don't think there's a certain number a player must be ranked due to their production. There are counter-arguments for the positive and negative points someone would point out about trends.

I think we agree that ranking players is an assessment of how to judge and how much to weight positive and negative benefits and risks associated with each player.

If I was to give my take on those two aspects, I would say that I'm weighing the junior production variable less than the height variable. If Rossi had produced this way in a top-level professional league, I might be more convinced to weigh that more than the height variable. But keep in mind that OHL scoring this year was way up. I believe it was record-setting. Rossi also is pretty old for a first year draft eligible. I wouldn't hold that against him for the draft because he also produced last season, but with these statistics, its important to keep in mind that he's close to as old of a player as there is that qualifies for this type of statistic. And then there's the point that smaller junior players without elite skating tend to be effected less in junior hockey by the size/skating combination than in a league like the NHL.

Some will say the counter-argument to the size/skating argument for sticking at center is that the NHL is getting smaller and smaller each season, but I don't think that makes the requirements of the center position any easier. It's the hardest position to play for any skater. The league getting smaller probably makes it easier to hide players like Hughes, Caufield, Fensore, DeBrincat within your lineup and in certain situational aspects during a game, while still get production out of them that benefits the team.

It doesn't make it any easier for Rossi to win face-offs with a clear size disadvantage, to battle net-front from players significantly bigger than him, and then to get goal line to goal line with non-elite skating combined with below-average size. These parts of the game all matter, and there are still centers in the league that are 6'3, 6'4 220-225 pounds. I've yet to see much data that centers in the NHL are on average smaller and slower. The former is something that applies to Rossi and the latter tool area can't be used to mitigate his size, considering his skating for his size isn't elite either.

 

[Doanator]

I never said though that there's a certain number that Rossi can't surpass because of his height. I also don't think there's a certain number a player must be ranked due to their production. There are counter-arguments for the positive and negative points someone would point out about trends.

I think we agree that ranking players is an assessment of how to judge and how much to weight positive and negative benefits and risks associated with each player.

If I was to give my take on those two aspects, I would say that I'm weighing the junior production variable less than the height variable. If Rossi had produced this way in a top-level professional league, I might be more convinced to weigh that more than the height variable. But keep in mind that OHL scoring this year was way up. I believe it was record-setting. Rossi also is pretty old for a first year draft eligible. I wouldn't hold that against him for the draft because he also produced last season, but with these statistics, its important to keep in mind that he's close to as old of a player as there is that qualifies for this type of statistic. And then there's the point that smaller junior players without elite skating tend to be effected less in junior hockey by the size/skating combination than in a league like the NHL.

Some will say the counter-argument to the size/skating argument for sticking at center is that the NHL is getting smaller and smaller each season, but I don't think that makes the requirements of the center position any easier. It's the hardest position to play for any skater. The league getting smaller probably makes it easier to hide players like Hughes, Caufield, Fensore, DeBrincat within your lineup and in certain situational aspects during a game, while still get production out of them that benefits the team.

It doesn't make it any easier for Rossi to win face-offs with a clear size disadvantage, to battle net-front from players significantly bigger than him, and then to get goal line to goal line with non-elite skating combined with below-average size. These parts of the game all matter, and there are still centers in the league that are 6'3, 6'4 220-225 pounds. I've yet to see much data that centers in the NHL are on average smaller and slower. The former is something that applies to Rossi and the latter tool area can't be used to mitigate his size, considering his skating for his size isn't elite either.

My feeling is, he will be the positive surprise in this draft...

 

[HSF]

Historically there has only been one Austrian born hockey player to surpass 700 points. Could he be the next? It’s possible, but historical trends seem to suggest it is unlikely.

man I remember this same talk about Kopitar in his draft

3 Stanley cups later …..

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

How effective would he be at wing?

 

[Artorius Horus T]

How effective would he be at wing?

Not very. Considering he has played his entire hockey life as a center.
- i wouldn't even consider it, suggest it. It would be complete, utter, idiotic thing to do

 

[Hockey Know it all]

man I remember this same talk about Kopitar in his draft

3 Stanley cups later …..

lol,
Two Stanley cups later.

 

[SensFactor]

I really want Rossi on the Sens. Hopefully he's around at #5. However I think he's gone at #4 to the Red Wings. Only thing to do is hope Detroit changes their mind and takes Drysdale/Perfetti/Raymond.

 

[bsu]

Rossi seems like a Senator idk why hah

 

[HSF]

lol,
Two Stanley cups later.

Sorry 2*

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Not very. Considering he has played his entire hockey life as a center.
- i wouldn't even consider it, suggest it. It would be complete, utter, idiotic thing to do

he'd be a great winger too. help his center out while providing smart forechecking and backchecking.

It's very common for two high skill linemates to play a hybrid winger/center game together and i think is the future of the nhl from a tactics stand point.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I really want Rossi on the Sens. Hopefully he's around at #5. However I think he's gone at #4 to the Red Wings. Only thing to do is hope Detroit changes their mind and takes Drysdale/Perfetti/Raymond.

I don’t think he’d be in consideration for their pick at all

 

[SensFactor]

I don’t think he’d be in consideration for their pick at all

I do. One of Rossi/Raymond/Drysdale is going to the Wings. Who else would you put at #4? I'm leaning towards Rossi/Raymond as they picked up a great D prospect last year in Seider.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I do. One of Rossi/Raymond/Drysdale is going to the Wings. Who else would you put at #4? I'm leaning towards Rossi/Raymond as they picked up a great D prospect last year in Seider.

Much greater chance of Perfetti going to the wings than Rossi.

 

[lauraP]

With the way the game is now Height doesn't really matter that much. it's not the 80-90's where you have players like stevens lindros etc destroying guys on a nightly basis. i think it's blown way out of proportion. but if he fall to my sabres i won't be complaining at all.

 

[Kshahdoo]

With the way the game is now Height doesn't really matter that much. it's not the 80-90's where you have players like stevens lindros etc destroying guys on a nightly basis. i think it's blown way out of proportion. but if he fall to my sabres i won't be complaining at all.

Even in 80-90s there was that guy Theoren Fleury, who was 5'6. Had two 100 point seasons, btw.

It'll be funny, if Rossi becomes a better player, than Laf.

 

[Oddbob]

I really want Rossi on the Sens. Hopefully he's around at #5. However I think he's gone at #4 to the Red Wings. Only thing to do is hope Detroit changes their mind and takes Drysdale/Perfetti/Raymond.

Rumours are pretty high right now that Detroit is taking either Perfetti (more likely) or Sanderson.