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C/LW Pavel Zacha - Sarnia Sting, OHL (2015, 6th, NJD)

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WhiskeyYourTheDevils said:
I have a hard time believing a guy who couldn't break ppg in the OHL has a higher ceiling than guys like Strome and Marner.

If Zacha is so good offensively, then why did he only manage 16 goals in 37 games? Especially with his relative advantage in size, speed, and strength.

If he had elite offensive potential, he should've dominated the competition. How many elite offensive players in the NHL scored at .9 ppg in major junior in their draft year? Not many.
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Are you honestly drawing a conclusion from a 37 game sample size in which the guy was in and out of the lineup due to injuries and suspensions?

The guy moved to a new country, had to adjust to a new league/gamestyle, played on a team with limited offensive talent. This was his first season in the OHL where both Marner and Strome had already played 1 season.

I also didnt say he would be the best offensive player. I said he had the upside to be the best player after the top 2 (Alot more to the game of hockey besides just scoring).

Good scouts project what a prospect is going to be 5-7 years from draft day, not who's the best player right that moment.
 
HenriquesJawLine said:
giphy.gif
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Obviously this was scored after the whistle had blow 10 seconds earlier or else people would have skated toward him when he had the puck.
 
weems said:
Are you honestly drawing a conclusion from a 37 game sample size in which the guy was in and out of the lineup due to injuries and suspensions?

The guy moved to a new country, had to adjust to a new league/gamestyle, played on a team with limited offensive talent. This was his first season in the OHL where both Marner and Strome had already played 1 season.

I also didnt say he would be the best offensive player. I said he had the upside to be the best player after the top 2 (Alot more to the game of hockey besides just scoring).

Good scouts project what a prospect is going to be 5-7 years from draft day, not who's the best player right that moment.
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In order to be the best player from a draft (sans McEichel), you typically have to be a fairly prolific scorer. I don't see a ton of upside in Zacha honestly. He's got very low bust potential, but his upside is low. He's got the tools to be a physically dominant NHLer, but I don't see enough scoring upside to rate him above those I mentioned.
 
WhiskeyYourTheDevils said:
In order to be the best player from a draft (sans McEichel), you typically have to be a fairly prolific scorer. I don't see a ton of upside in Zacha honestly. He's got very low bust potential, but his upside is low. He's got the tools to be a physically dominant NHLer, but I don't see enough scoring upside to rate him above those I mentioned.
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His upside is definitely not low.

He's huge, is a very good skater, has good hands, has arguably the best shot in the draft, Good finishing ability and is extremely physical.

But I guess if all you're basing this on is a 37 game sample size then sure.

Try watching these videos from the U-18's and tell me this is a kid who has "low upside".

https://vimeo.com/125823986 (2:02 mark)
https://vimeo.com/125994320 (2:42 mark)
https://vimeo.com/125637086 (0:49 mark)
https://vimeo.com/125394619 (1:28 mark absolute beauty)
 
WhiskeyYourTheDevils said:
In order to be the best player from a draft (sans McEichel), you typically have to be a fairly prolific scorer. I don't see a ton of upside in Zacha honestly. He's got very low bust potential, but his upside is low. He's got the tools to be a physically dominant NHLer, but I don't see enough scoring upside to rate him above those I mentioned.
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But he wasn't the top player outside of McEichel. That's why he went sixth.

Nobody has him rated above Marner, Strome or Hanifin.

I don't think your argument is very strong, but you may end up right. I just think a kid coming to a new country and having to deal with that and injuries makes 34 points in 37 games great, especially when you see how good he can look.
 
I could understand someone bringing up his hockeysense or his lack of scoring but its almost always been universally agreed upon that his ceiling is massive.

"Pavel Zacha is an offensively dynamic center with the size, speed, and skill to make a significant impact on the game. He can play physical, but is at his best when using his high-end offensive abilities, such as his shot, stickhandling, and footspeed, to generate numbers in the opposition's end of the ice. All-in-all, Zacha is a lethal weapon that can be depended upon to create, and finish, dangerous scoring chances whenever he is on the ice."

That doesnt sound like a player with "low upside".
 
cheeeko said:
But he wasn't the top player outside of McEichel. That's why he went sixth.

Nobody has him rated above Marner, Strome or Hanifin.

I don't think your argument is very strong, but you may end up right. I just think a kid coming to a new country and having to deal with that and injuries makes 34 points in 37 games great, especially when you see how good he can look.
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The guy I quoted does. Hence my response.
 
weems said:
I could understand someone bringing up his hockeysense or his lack of scoring but its almost always been universally agreed upon that his ceiling is massive.

"Pavel Zacha is an offensively dynamic center with the size, speed, and skill to make a significant impact on the game. He can play physical, but is at his best when using his high-end offensive abilities, such as his shot, stickhandling, and footspeed, to generate numbers in the opposition's end of the ice. All-in-all, Zacha is a lethal weapon that can be depended upon to create, and finish, dangerous scoring chances whenever he is on the ice."

That doesnt sound like a player with "low upside".
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IMO its hard to have a real high ceiling with sub par hockey IQ. There aren't a lot of top scorers that don't have above average IQ.
 
cheeeko said:
Well that's just incorrect! Doesn't detract from Zacha though
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Why is that "incorrect"?

Is it some kind of forgone conclusion that all of Hanifin, Marner and Strome will be better pro's than Zacha?
 
weems said:
Why is that "incorrect"?

Is it some kind of forgone conclusion that all of Hanifin, Marner and Strome will be better pro's than Zacha?
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It's incorrect to say he's rated above or on the same level as those players. Of course it's possible he becomes a better pro, but he's a tier below right now.

That could change as soon as next season though!
 
This guy is going to be a beast. Comparables for style of play would have to be Getzlaf (if C), Hossa (if W)

I also see him playing this coming year, due to his size, speed, and physicality - three major tools to enter the league

Now just wait for Kovalchuk to come back next season... :)
 
WhiskeyYourTheDevils said:
In order to be the best player from a draft (sans McEichel), you typically have to be a fairly prolific scorer. I don't see a ton of upside in Zacha honestly. He's got very low bust potential, but his upside is low. He's got the tools to be a physically dominant NHLer, but I don't see enough scoring upside to rate him above those I mentioned.
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I've watched every video and have read everything I could possibly find on Zacha since we drafted him and I cannot for the life of me understand how you think he doesn't have much upside. His combination of skill, shot and skating ability is just fantastic for a guy 6' 3" 210 pounds. His acceleration is great and he seems to get faster when he has the puck. I do worry about his offensive creativity in the offensive zone. Obviously he can't score all his goals off the rush. But I still think he could have Elias like production in the NHL, if everything breaks right for him. I do agree with you when you say he has very low bust potential, but I still think he has potential to be a top 20 point producer year in year out, if everything works out for him of course. I wish he could play in the AHL next season. I really hate that whole getting drafted out of the chl rule.
 
How similar is this guy's playing style to Tarasenko?
 
Adam Larsson said:
I've watched every video and have read everything I could possibly find on Zacha since we drafted him and I cannot for the life of me understand how you think he doesn't have much upside. His combination of skill, shot and skating ability is just fantastic for a guy 6' 3" 210 pounds. His acceleration is great and he seems to get faster when he has the puck. I do worry about his offensive creativity in the offensive zone. Obviously he can't score all his goals off the rush. But I still think he could have Elias like production in the NHL, if everything breaks right for him. I do agree with you when you say he has very low bust potential, but I still think he has potential to be a top 20 point producer year in year out, if everything works out for him of course. I wish he could play in the AHL next season. I really hate that whole getting drafted out of the chl rule.
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I see upside as being firmly linked to hockey IQ. Which is why I don't see a ton of upside with Zacha.

Look at the top scorers in the NHL. Not a lot of guys with average IQ in that group.
 
SMantzas said:
Kovalchuk, Neal
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Neal qualifies. Kovalchuk actually sees the ice pretty well for my money, as does Ovechkin. Nash is another guy who has pretty average IQ.

Point it, its not a large list. It's very tough to have too scoring potential with average IQ.

The list of big, skilled, athletic guys who end up as middle six players is much larger.
 
Zacha reminds me of a lesser Kovy/Ovy hybrid. No, I'm not saying he will ever be as good as either of those players. Not at all. But in playing style he reminds me of that. Big, fast, dynamic offensively with a rocket shot; but sometimes lacking defensively while making some questionable reads. Add the physicality that borders on illegal and that's what he reminds me of. Good news is that he seems committed to being better defensively and being a good player in all three zones.
 
TheUnseenHand said:
Zacha reminds me of a lesser Kovy/Ovy hybrid. No, I'm not saying he will ever be as good as either of those players. Not at all. But in playing style he reminds me of that. Big, fast, dynamic offensively with a rocket shot; but sometimes lacking defensively while making some questionable reads. Add the physicality that borders on illegal and that's what he reminds me of. Good news is that he seems committed to being better defensively and being a good player in all three zones.
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Was thinking the exact same thing. The good thing is he fits the new mold of players coming to NewJersey the next couple of years either through draft, trades or signings. Imagine if we were able to learn him how to play the boards, the defensive side he would be a very good player in this league for a long time.
 
When Kovalchuk came over in the trade, I always wondered what it would be like if the Devils had the chance to draft a guy with amazing physical tools and try to mold him into a complete player from day one.

With Zacha, we have that opportunity.

I also question his hockey IQ, but his enthusiasm (on top of the robust skill-set) and his repeated emphasis on two-way play in interviews gives me a lot of hope. If he plays like a second-rate Kovy/Ovy in the offensive zone and like a third-rate Kopitar in the defensive zone, I will be very happy.
 
The Zacha has terrible hockeysense thing is drastically overblown.

Sure he isnt Toews, Bergeron etc but his hockeysense and decision making isnt so awful that it will hold his elite skillset back.

Actually his decision making drastically improved from the start of the season to the end. Nki who's one of the best draft guys on this site said he feels his early trouble with decision making had more to do with transition to a new league/style of game than a inherent lack of hockeysense.

Go watch that U 18 Canada vs Czech game.

Not only was he easily the best player on the ice but he showed numerous times his defensive ability along with great decisions with the puck (mostly in his own zone).

I dont think he'll ever be a PPG elite scorer but he should be close to a 30/35 guy in his prime that is extremely physical and plays a strong 200ft game. Everything I've read about the kid says he's a very hard worker off the ice and a great teammate.

Think David Backes but more explosive.
 
weems said:
The Zacha has terrible hockeysense thing is drastically overblown.

Sure he isnt Toews, Bergeron etc but his hockeysense and decision making isnt so awful that it will hold his elite skillset back.

Actually his decision making drastically improved from the start of the season to the end. Nki who's one of the best draft guys on this site said he feels his early trouble with decision making had more to do with transition to a new league/style of game than a inherent lack of hockeysense.

Go watch that U 18 Canada vs Czech game.

Not only was he easily the best player on the ice but he showed numerous times his defensive ability along with great decisions with the puck (mostly in his own zone).

I dont think he'll ever be a PPG elite scorer but he should be close to a 30/35 guy in his prime that is extremely physical and plays a strong 200ft game. Everything I've read about the kid says he's a very hard worker off the ice and a great teammate.

Think David Backes but more explosive.
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Are those games available to re-watch?
 
weems said:
The Zacha has terrible hockeysense thing is drastically overblown.
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I don't think anyone has made that argument. All I've seen is people saying he has average hockey sense.

Sure he isnt Toews, Bergeron etc but his hockeysense and decision making isnt so awful that it will hold his elite skillset back.

Actually his decision making drastically improved from the start of the season to the end. Nki who's one of the best draft guys on this site said he feels his early trouble with decision making had more to do with transition to a new league/style of game than a inherent lack of hockeysense.
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When he's got time and space, he can make great plays. From what I've seen, he has a hard time getting his head up immediately. With how fast the NHL game is, that would be my mine concern - his ability to process at full speed.

Go watch that U 18 Canada vs Czech game.

Not only was he easily the best player on the ice but he showed numerous times his defensive ability along with great decisions with the puck (mostly in his own zone).

I dont think he'll ever be a PPG elite scorer but he should be close to a 30/35 guy in his prime that is extremely physical and plays a strong 200ft game. Everything I've read about the kid says he's a very hard worker off the ice and a great teammate.

Think David Backes but more explosive.
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I wouldn't be shocked if he hit 30 goals a few times in his career. I expect him to be a solid middle 6 guy who can pot 20 goals while providing solid 2 way and physical play. A valuable player for sure, but as a Devils fan, I'm still not sure if that's the guy I take at 6 with a few of the guys on the board at the time
 
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