C/LW Cole Perfetti - Saginaw Spirit, OHL (2020, 10th, WPG)

[Zaddy]

Yikes.

He wrote a really long post clearly detailing why he has the opinion he has, and the best you can come up with is "yikes"? Refute his argument with a similarly detailed post. Should be easy enough of his post is really that bad no?

hard to take any of this seriously... definitely getting the cram this loose , very unsubstantiated opinionated "analysis" crammed down one's throat feeling

It's a discussion forum. Personally I'd love to see more posts like his. Most people just write a few sentences when discussing a prospect, not really breaking down why they feel a certain way about a player. The clearer people are the better. You can respect someone's post even if you don't agree with it.

And lets not act like there aren't some concerns about Rossi, or that highly regarded players can't fail to live up to expectations. It happens all the time, with players who are seen as more "can't miss" than Rossi.

 

[goldenbladz1]

Rossi abslutely plays like a skilled grinder. Crosby does the same thing but hes bigger and stronger so he can get away with it. I dont have Rossi at 14 by any stretch but if people arent concerned about his upside then I wonder whether they watch him much at all. The guy loves drawing a defender in down low, protecting the puck with his body and then dishing. I just dont see the puck protection aspect of his game working in the NHL at his size. I picture him going into a corner with Shea Weber and I dont see it working at all. Then you look at the skating and I dont think it has that gear to skate around Weber when the puck protection thing doesnt work.

I still think he should be a top 7 pick. Hes probably the second most polished prospect in the draft. Its a safe pick that youll get a useful NHLer. But his upside is absolutely questionable based on how he plays offensively. Perfettis upside blows him away, but Rssi is the safer pick. If I'm detroit I swing for the high upside because without winning the lottery they need a star from somewhere. With Rossi you get a solid player, but I doubt a star player based on his upside. With Perfetti you have the chance to get a star level talent, its just riskier.

But for the record, guys who put up points in the OHL definitely do become grinders in the NHL sometimes. Maybe not 120 but there hasnt been a lot of years with a stacked team like ROssis in his draft year playing in that bad of a conference either

That last sentence reminds of Dave Bolland for the Hawks in London 2005-2006 in 57 games 57G 73A 130 points and was the perfect pest grinder for the Hawks.

 

[bert]

Rossi abslutely plays like a skilled grinder. Crosby does the same thing but hes bigger and stronger so he can get away with it. I dont have Rossi at 14 by any stretch but if people arent concerned about his upside then I wonder whether they watch him much at all. The guy loves drawing a defender in down low, protecting the puck with his body and then dishing. I just dont see the puck protection aspect of his game working in the NHL at his size. I picture him going into a corner with Shea Weber and I dont see it working at all. Then you look at the skating and I dont think it has that gear to skate around Weber when the puck protection thing doesnt work.

I still think he should be a top 7 pick. Hes probably the second most polished prospect in the draft. Its a safe pick that youll get a useful NHLer. But his upside is absolutely questionable based on how he plays offensively. Perfettis upside blows him away, but Rssi is the safer pick. If I'm detroit I swing for the high upside because without winning the lottery they need a star from somewhere. With Rossi you get a solid player, but I doubt a star player based on his upside. With Perfetti you have the chance to get a star level talent, its just riskier.

But for the record, guys who put up points in the OHL definitely do become grinders in the NHL sometimes. Maybe not 120 but there hasnt been a lot of years with a stacked team like ROssis in his draft year playing in that bad of a conference either

I have watched Rossi alot the last two years, I have the same concerns about his offense translating to the next level. I think its a guarantee he is an NHL player and absolutely a top 10 pick he will also play center and is a terrific defensive player. However I am not sure if he is going to be able to beat NHL d men consistently outside of his puck skills and vision. Personally I couldnt take him over Quinn after watching 20+ games this year. Quinn's the real deal btw he is more dynamic than simply a goal scorer but thats another discussion all together.

Perfetti has the highest upside of the 3 of them but likely comes with the most risk, I think he could be a Marner/Kane level winger. Id take Perfetti above both Quinn and Rossi but they are all pretty close and likely comes down to team preference.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

That last sentence reminds of Dave Bolland for the Hawks in London 2005-2006 in 57 games 57G 73A 130 points and was the perfect pest grinder for the Hawks.

Those numbers are from Dave Bolland's D+2 year, though. That's the difference.

 

[Gargyn]

There is zero chance Rossi isn't taken in the top 10. Heck I will argue he will be gone by 4 or 5 by Detroit or Ottawa. If he falls to Ottawa at 5 that is who I want the Sens to take. I have him ahead of Perfetti for sure. If the Wings take Perfetti at 4, I would be running to the stage at 5 to grab Rossi.

Everyone is worried about Perfetti’s skating. What about Rossi’s muffin shot? He’s great on the power play and can be the quarterback but take away his pass and let him shoot. He won’t beat an NHL goalie with his shot. I don’t get the Rossi fanboys. Average skater and weak shot. Great passing and iq. I’d take Perfetti all day over him. Bookmark this if you need to but Perfetti will be a very good nhl player. Rossi won’t.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Everyone is worried about Perfetti’s skating. What about Rossi’s muffin shot? He’s great on the power play and can be the quarterback but take away his pass and let him shoot. He won’t beat an NHL goalie with his shot. I don’t get the Rossi fanboys. Average skater and weak shot. Great passing and iq. I’d take Perfetti all day over him. Bookmark this if you need to but Perfetti will be a very good nhl player. Rossi won’t.

Muffin shot? That's the first I've ever heard of Rossi having a crap shot. And as I've said on the Wings board, show me a scouting report from this year that states that Rossi is an AVERAGE skater.

Here's a highlight reel of Rossi's season. Most of his goals are from within 5 feet of the goal, but his snipes from the top of the circle, notably around the 2:30, 5:00, 10:10 and 13:40marks show the kid has a hell of a wrist shot.

 

[SensFactor]

Everyone is worried about Perfetti’s skating. What about Rossi’s muffin shot? He’s great on the power play and can be the quarterback but take away his pass and let him shoot. He won’t beat an NHL goalie with his shot. I don’t get the Rossi fanboys. Average skater and weak shot. Great passing and iq. I’d take Perfetti all day over him. Bookmark this if you need to but Perfetti will be a very good nhl player. Rossi won’t.

Muffin shot? I never heard of that one. He had nearly 40 goals in 56 games last year. Not bad for a "muffin shot". Perfetti's a very good prospect. Don't get it twisted. However, I don't see the same upside as Rossi. Rossi has better defensive awareness and better overall skating than Perfetti. I agree his skating can be better but I have Rossi ahead in every other category. I want you to bookmark this as well and we can revisit this post to see who is right. Both are NHLers, but I have my money on Rossi being better in the NHL.

 

[SensFactor]

Muffin shot? That's the first I've ever heard of Rossi having a crap shot. And as I've said on the Wings board, show me a scouting report from this year that states that Rossi is an AVERAGE skater.

Here's a highlight reel of Rossi's season. Most of his goals are from within 5 feet of the goal, but his snipes from the top of the circle, notably around the 2:30, 5:00, 10:10 and 13:40 marks show the kid has a hell of a wrist shot.

Completely agree with this. Not sure if people are watching Rossi closely enough. I would have him top 3 in the draft if he was a few inches taller.

 

[Michael Brand Eggs]

This is like some kind of contest to see who can exaggerate a prospect's weaknesses the most.

 

[NA Hockey]

Completely agree with this. Not sure if people are watching Rossi closely enough. I would have him top 3 in the draft if he was a few inches taller.

...and Perfetti would be top 3 if he were just a little faster.

Not sure why there is so much fighting and comparison about Rossi and Perfetti. Can it not be true that they are both excellent players and both should go in the top 8? Some people have one higher than the other but the bottom line is they are BOTH good and have earned their spots in the top 10. They both have the opportunity to be impact players in the future but no one knows for sure

 

[Hen Kolland]

Muffin shot? I never heard of that one. He had nearly 40 goals in 56 games last year. Not bad for a "muffin shot". Perfetti's a very good prospect. Don't get it twisted. However, I don't see the same upside as Rossi. Rossi has better defensive awareness and better overall skating than Perfetti. I agree his skating can be better but I have Rossi ahead in every other category. I want you to bookmark this as well and we can revisit this post to see who is right. Both are NHLers, but I have my money on Rossi being better in the NHL.

Don't get it twisted? How can someone not get it twisted when you come to the conclusion that Rossi is ahead in every category? I just don't see a conceivable way that you can say Rossi's upside is higher than Perfetti's. I just flat out don't f***ing get it.

The only area that I see Rossi undeniably ahead of Perfetti is in the refinement of defensive play. There is a debate that can be had in every other category. But if your drop dead point of prospect analysis is a trait that most teams can find in UDFA's or can sign for $1 million in free agency any given year, then certainly, put your money where your mouth is and take Rossi at #3.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

...and Perfetti would be top 3 if he were just a little faster.

Not sure why there is so much fighting and comparison about Rossi and Perfetti. Can it not be true that they are both excellent players and both should go in the top 8? Some people have one higher than the other but the bottom line is they are BOTH good and have earned their spots in the top 10. They both have the opportunity to be impact players in the future but no one knows for sure

It's weird cuz they have very similar levels of hockey IQ and pretty much the same thing they need to work on to ensure that they become dominant NHL players.

There's a reason that both of them as draft eligibles were two of the best players in the entire CHL. In almost every category neither trails the other by much. They aren't that far apart even if there are valid reasons to prefer one over the other.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Rossi's shot is inconsistent. I've seen him let off some powerful wrist shots, but other times his shot will look weak and easily stoppable (muffin quality).

It's not like Quinn's, where he'll get good power on it no matter what position his body is in.

 

[Gargyn]

Rossi's shot is inconsistent. I've seen him let off some powerful wrist shots, but other times his shot will look weak and easily stoppable (muffin quality).

It's not like Quinn's, where he'll get good power on it no matter what position his body is in.

I’ve never even seen this “powerful” shot of Rossi’s. He won’t score against an NHL goalie too often from above the circles let’s just say. And getting in right with how small he is won’t be easy either. I just don’t see Rossi being highly effective in the NHL. I’m cheering for all these kids so I hope I’m wrong. He seems like an awesome kid who loves to play so I wish him the best.

 

[Zaddy]

Muffin shot? That's the first I've ever heard of Rossi having a crap shot. And as I've said on the Wings board, show me a scouting report from this year that states that Rossi is an AVERAGE skater.

Here's a highlight reel of Rossi's season. Most of his goals are from within 5 feet of the goal, but his snipes from the top of the circle, notably around the 2:30, 5:00, 10:10 and 13:40marks show the kid has a hell of a wrist shot.

HockeyProspect have his skating rated as 5 on a 3-9 scale where 3 is "poor", 4 is "below average" and 5 is "average".

This quote also labels him as an average skater:

"To me he’s a great junior player. I know everyone loves him but he’ll need to be a winger in the NHL and I agree that he’s smart but he’s not very dynamic. He’s only 5’8” and is an average skater. Put him on North Bay and he’d be a 2nd round pick. He’s way down my list. He abused Kingston and North Bay but was very ordinary against the good teams in the West" - NHL Scout, May 2020

 

[newfy]

Muffin shot? That's the first I've ever heard of Rossi having a crap shot. And as I've said on the Wings board, show me a scouting report from this year that states that Rossi is an AVERAGE skater.

Here's a highlight reel of Rossi's season. Most of his goals are from within 5 feet of the goal, but his snipes from the top of the circle, notably around the 2:30, 5:00, 10:10 and 13:40marks show the kid has a hell of a wrist shot.

The post below mine shows a couple instances of him being considered average. I think this kinda qualifies as well "He doesn’t have huge pop in his skating but he’s smart and agile." from Mackenzies draft ranking. To me that reads that his top speed is pretty meh but his hockey sense and shiftiness in his skating help make up for it. Hes not a great skater, hes a solid enough skater that it shouldnt stop him from playing in the NHL, but it might stop him from being a stud. When he doesnt have that step on bigger, stronger dmen and he no longer has that strength advantage it'll be interesting to see what happens. Perfetti's quote from the same article "doesn’t have blinding straight-line, beat-you-to-the-outside speed, but it’s a testament to his elite hockey sense, creativity and goal-scoring ability that he still cracked TSN’s Top 5."

Both guys are solid on their edges and shifty without high end top speed. I would consider that average skating theyre just smart and shifty enough to make up for it in other ways. The difference is there seems to be a lot more potential gains in skating for Perfetti over Rossi at this point in time so its a safer bet to say he'll be the better skater at the next level given what their bodies are like right now.

Both guys have the skating to be solid NHL players but are definitely not above average.

HockeyProspect have his skating rated as 5 on a 3-9 scale where 3 is "poor", 4 is "below average" and 5 is "average".

This quote also labels him as an average skater:

"To me he’s a great junior player. I know everyone loves him but he’ll need to be a winger in the NHL and I agree that he’s smart but he’s not very dynamic. He’s only 5’8” and is an average skater. Put him on North Bay and he’d be a 2nd round pick. He’s way down my list. He abused Kingston and North Bay but was very ordinary against the good teams in the West" - NHL Scout, May 2020

 

[jc17]

HockeyProspect have his skating rated as 5 on a 3-9 scale where 3 is "poor", 4 is "below average" and 5 is "average".

This quote also labels him as an average skater:

Put him on North Bay and he’d be a 2nd round pick. He’s way down my list. He abused Kingston and North Bay but was very ordinary against the good teams in the West" - NHL Scout, May 2020

What I dont like about this quote is he put up 30 more points than the next best scorer. He definitely benefited from playing with good linemates, and on a team with depth to open up opportunities, but this isn't a Petan/Esposito situation where a few overages carried a draft eligible.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

HockeyProspect have his skating rated as 5 on a 3-9 scale where 3 is "poor", 4 is "below average" and 5 is "average".

This quote also labels him as an average skater:

"To me he’s a great junior player. I know everyone loves him but he’ll need to be a winger in the NHL and I agree that he’s smart but he’s not very dynamic. He’s only 5’8” and is an average skater. Put him on North Bay and he’d be a 2nd round pick. He’s way down my list. He abused Kingston and North Bay but was very ordinary against the good teams in the West" - NHL Scout, May 2020

Regarding that scout's quote, can you link to it?
I've been searching that scouting quote and I'm unable to find a source other than it being passed around other message boards and reddit in very much the same way. And honestly, anyone saying that Rossi would be a second rounder is kind of suspect to me.

I'd agree that Rossi's speed is average to slightly above average. His agility and east-west movement is what stands out as excellent to me. When averaging between the two I'd list him as an above average skater. He won't blow your doors off but he'll get the puck into the offensive zone, draw defenders to the half wall, evade them and dish a pass to the open man without making it look super flashy. I really like his puck distribution. It's very Zetterberg-esque.

When comparing Perfetti, he's got good edges but not great. He (Perfetti) relies more on stickwork to evade opponents than Rossi and it looks really impressive in the highlight reels. Both are very adept at getting through the defense using their toolsets. I think both will find a way to make this work for them at the next level with those toolsets.

Also, here's a few reports on Rossi discussing his skating with links.
Marco Rossi Scouting Report: 2020 NHL Draft #6 - Last Word on Hockey
"Rossi is an excellent skater, with very good speed and acceleration. He combines that with outstanding agility and edgework. He can take defenders wide and then cut to the net. His ability to make quick cuts also makes him extremely dangerous in one-on-one situations."

2020 Draft Profile: C Marco Rossi - The Draft Analyst
"Rossi is a consistent breakaway threat, but he also contributes in other areas thanks to a high-end motor, strong balance on the puck and an acute grasp of how plays will unfold before him."

https://thehockeywriters.com/marco-rossi-2020-nhl-draft-prospect-profile/
"His awareness and vision are off the charts. But then in a flash, he’s gone because his skating is very much above average in both acceleration and straight-line speed. He can beat opponents on the rush and can also track you down from behind if necessary."

2020 NHL Draft Profile: Marco Rossi
"This strength translates to a powerful skating stride, which Rossi can use to generate some separation at the OHL level. While he doesn’t have the same top gear as Quinton Byfield, Rossi’s made strides with his acceleration. I’ve seen reports call him a “four-directional skater” "

2020 NHL Draft prospect profile: Marco Rossi scouting report
"Rossi is a very fast skater, however, he isn’t perfect. He needs to work on his first-step and acceleration, as he somewhat lacks in those areas. You can tell it takes him a few strides before he hits his full-speed, and with the ever-evolving speed in the NHL, it makes what seems like a small set-back a major one."

Marco Rossi - NHL - DraftSite.com
"More shifty than explosive but moves so well East-West,"
and
"A smart playmaker with excellent East-West lateral movement."

Marco Rossi - NHL Prospect Scouting Reports - Rubyiss
"Marco Rossi is a very good skater but needs to develop more top end speed. Marco uses and has excellent edgework and balance. Often beats defenders on on one with his excellent puck handling abilities. Marco is very athletic on his skates and possesses excellent creativity. Plays a high pace game which is very suited for today’s game."

...I could go on but I've slacked off at work enough for now. My point is this: you'll find a lot more reports that Rossi is a good skater than you will reports that he's average or bad. Of the 20 or so I just flipped through I didn't see anything that said his skating was bad, or anything to corroborate that anonymous NHL scout's quote.

EDIT: Conspiracy theory here, but what if that quote was from Kris Draper who is secretly pushing Yzerman to pick Perfetti? Dun dun dunnnnnnnn

 

[Zaddy]

Regarding that scout's quote, can you link to it?

The quote is from HockeyProspect's Black Book.

2020 NHL Draft Black Book (PDF Instant Download) | HockeyProspect.com

Also I personally wouldn't put much stock into the links you gave. To me those guys are writers, not scouts. HP is the real deal and supplies NHL teams with their scouting reports. Mark is very connected and knows and regularly talks to (and travels with) a bunch of NHL scouts. HP and Bob McKenzie are the cream of the crop when it comes to scouting, although I have to say Draft Dynasty and Scouching both do a great job with the analysis and breakdowns they provide on their respective youtube channels.

 

[bland]

Rossi has pull away speed where needed, but tends to slow the game down to open up lanes rather than push the pace to extend defenses.

He is a very smart player, and smart players know when and where to exert themselves. I am high on this kid, and think he will have an impact similar to Logan Couture's.

That may not be sexy enough for a top 4 pick, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if he ends up more valuable than Byfield or Stützle.

As far as Perfetti, its the same kettle of fish. Not as dynamic as Stützle or as potentially dominant as Byfield, but still a hell of a player. The teams picking 4-6 this year are all going to do well, and with Drysdale in that mix any of those three may come back to haunt LA at 2. Ottawa will get one of each tier.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

Imagine thinking at 19 year old had maxed out his strength...

This is the ideal male body. You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

 

[Kingpin794]

So let's just saves ourselves 5 pages of back and forth that goes nowhere:

Those that prefer Rossi like his two way game, like the fact that he may be able to step into the NHL quickly and value his likelyhood to be a NHL regular vs home run projections.

Those the prefer Perfetti like his high IQ, believe skating issues are either over blown or are fixable, and see his skills as more likely to translate with regards to reaching one's ceiling vs Rossi's.

No one is convincing the other group that they are incorrect. But I bet in 3 pages we're still going to be spinning our wheels.

 

[JiricekSaveUs]

Perfetti has the higher upside no question. There might not be a player in the draft with the same ceiling as perfetti. That being said, there’s a lot of value to Rossi and I do wonder if people who rate him low aren’t just buying into a lazy narrative. I have only seen 2 of Rossi’s games so I can’t say I have an exact read on him but I never had questions about if he could be an effective centreman in the NHL like some do. He’s a great distributor, as well as skater. My questions about his game come from not knowing if he will be able to get to the scoring areas of the ice with the puck enough to be an elite point producer. I have no question that he’ll develop into a 60+ point C in the NHL, with a large chunk of points coming via the PP, it’s just a question of if there’s more than that. At 6-9 in the draft, that’s pretty good value and I see no issue with him in that range.

 

[bland]

Perfetti has the higher upside no question. There might not be a player in the draft with the same ceiling as perfetti. That being said, there’s a lot of value to Rossi and I do wonder if people who rate him low aren’t just buying into a lazy narrative. I have only seen 2 of Rossi’s games so I can’t say I have an exact read on him but I never had questions about if he could be an effective centreman in the NHL like some do. He’s a great distributor, as well as skater. My questions about his game come from not knowing if he will be able to get to the scoring areas of the ice with the puck enough to be an elite point producer. I have no question that he’ll develop into a 60+ point C in the NHL, with a large chunk of points coming via the PP, it’s just a question of if there’s more than that. At 6-9 in the draft, that’s pretty good value and I see no issue with him in that range.

Yes, question.

 

[bland]

So let's just saves ourselves 5 pages of back and forth that goes nowhere:

Those that prefer Rossi like his two way game, like the fact that he may be able to step into the NHL quickly and value his likelyhood to be a NHL regular vs home run projections.

Those the prefer Perfetti like his high IQ, believe skating issues are either over blown or are fixable, and see his skills as more likely to translate with regards to reaching one's ceiling vs Rossi's.

No one is convincing the other group that they are incorrect. But I bet in 3 pages we're still going to be spinning our wheels.

You are participating on a site that is nothing but people stating their opinions. Why would you expect agreement? The entire purpose is wheel spinning.