C Logan Brown - Windsor Spitfires, OHL (2016, 11th, OTT)

[Samsquanch]

a problem (of opinion) in the scouting world is drafting based on physical+hockey ceiling. does a players size count for more or less than individual hockey talent?

some scouts see it as size cannot be changed (mostly) and for that reason raises ceiling. i dont believe in this, i think suze is overrated and ceiling/potential should not include size unless you are talking aspects that size can definitely impact (such as hitting).

again, i think Turris is their 1C and Brown will be ready either this year or next. middle 6 safe bet who can play almost all positions

i think its a good pick for Ottawa. just a matter of if you think it was worth taking 1st round, and while i dont if Ottawa needed the size and center position enough it made sense to make the pick

Okay well 5 or 6 times compared to a few years of tape, id take the latter.

I never said he couldnt be dominant in what he did. In fact, his size allows for it quite easily. But he just isnt elite at one specific thing, at least for what I consider elite (because that word is thrown around far too much).

I dont see what is so bad about an all around big 2C behind Turris.

Brown is an elite passer, top 5 in the draft, and elite stick handler, again top 5 in the draft. NHL caliber shot. His puck protection is among the best in the draft as well. These are thoughts from a published outlet, not an unnamed family friend. See below.

http://thehockeywriters.com/logan-brown-the-next-ones-nhl-2016-draft-prospect-profile/

Go watch the under 18's if you want to see him flat out dominate.

So in other words, your entire point is basically rubbish. He's elite in some ways, and obviously very blessed in the size department.

Your family friend scout is obviously not very good, or a rebel of some kind, because not a single outlet had brown ranked as a low 1st/high second. He went right where he should have.

 

[BigWilly]

Could be a monster if he puts it together.

Great pick for Ottawa.. He'll either be incredibly exciting or incredibly frustrating to watch

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

Brown is an elite passer, top 5 in the draft, and elite stick handler, again top 5 in the draft. NHL caliber shot. His puck protection is among the best in the draft as well. These are thoughts from a published outlet, not an unnamed family friend. See below.

http://thehockeywriters.com/logan-brown-the-next-ones-nhl-2016-draft-prospect-profile/

Go watch the under 18's if you want to see him flat out dominate.

So in other words, your entire point is basically rubbish. He's elite in some ways, and obviously very blessed in the size department.

Your family friend scout is obviously not very good, or a rebel of some kind, because not a single outlet had brown ranked as a low 1st/high second. He went right where he should have.

We shall see then - his game does not translate to the NHL and that is what is seemingly missed here.

 

[Samsquanch]

We shall see then - his game does not translate to the NHL and that is what is seemingly missed here.

Whatever you say.

Size and the ability to battle down low, and the ability to draw defenders in and create space for other teammates, and then hit said teammates with passes, is a pretty good toolbox for the NHL.

That's how offense is generated in today's NHL.

What makes you say that his skills are not transferable to the NHL? Or was that pure fluff?

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

Whatever you say.

Size and the ability to battle down low, and the ability to draw defenders in and create space for other teammates, and then hit said teammates with passes, is a pretty good toolbox for the NHL.

That's how offense is generated in today's NHL.

What makes you say that his skills are not transferable to the NHL? Or was that pure fluff?

His 'elite' skills such as handling will not translate. The vision wont be lost, but if you think a guy of his size will be dangling in the NHL like he does in the juniors; youll be sorely mistaken.

 

[Samsquanch]

His 'elite' skills such as handling will not translate. The vision wont be lost, but if you think a guy of his size will be dangling in the NHL like he does in the juniors; youll be sorely mistaken.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that your grasping at straws...Browns game isn't based on dangles, you don't really know what kind of player that he is.

You tried to say he wasn't elite at anything, which is wrong, and have backed it up with sweet nothing.

Nice try though.

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that your grasping at straws...Browns game isn't based on dangles, you don't really know what kind of player that he is.

You tried to say he wasn't elite at anything, which is wrong, and have backed it up with sweet nothing.

Nice try though.

Im talking to the comments about his elite hands, I know he doesnt have elite hands, hence the 'elite'.

Believe what you want, but a 2C is his future. Nothing wrong with that

 

[benjiv1]

His 'elite' skills such as handling will not translate. The vision wont be lost, but if you think a guy of his size will be dangling in the NHL like he does in the juniors; youll be sorely mistaken.

What are the odds you're a Devils fan? You probably think McLeod is a homerun pick, and is certain to be a #1 centre, eh?

In all seriousness, I'm going to differ to the experts on this one, and not your family friend.

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

What are the odds you're a Devils fan? You probably think McLeod is a homerun pick, and is certain to be a #1 centre, eh?

In all seriousness, I'm going to differ to the experts on this one, and not your family friend.

And to each their own, but when waa the last time someone of his size came in and lived up to first line projections?

 

[SnoopDogg]

This kid is gonna be a stud, if we didn't have a ton of center depth I'd love to trade down

 

[All_blueandwhite]

Brown is an elite passer, top 5 in the draft, and elite stick handler, again top 5 in the draft. NHL caliber shot. His puck protection is among the best in the draft as well. These are thoughts from a published outlet, not an unnamed family friend. See below.

http://thehockeywriters.com/logan-brown-the-next-ones-nhl-2016-draft-prospect-profile/

Go watch the under 18's if you want to see him flat out dominate.

So in other words, your entire point is basically rubbish. He's elite in some ways, and obviously very blessed in the size department.

If all these things are true then there's no way he should have fallen to 11. Either you're exaggerating or you're smarter than almost a 3rd of the leagues GMs and paid scouts.

 

[Jerrico]

If all these things are true then there's no way he should have fallen to 11. Either you're exaggerating or you're smarter than almost a 3rd of the leagues GMs and paid scouts.

Why did Kopitar fall to 11? Why did Forsberg fall to 11? Why did Getzlaf fall to 19?

GMs are not infallible. Every year teams make huge mistakes by passing on certain guys.

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

If all these things are true then there's no way he should have fallen to 11. Either you're exaggerating or you're smarter than almost a 3rd of the leagues GMs and paid scouts.

Not to mention... When was the last time a 6'5+ forward lived up to first line expectations?

 

[benjiv1]

And to each their own, but when waa the last time someone of his size came in and lived up to first line projections?

So you are a Devil's fan then? Do you honestly believe you're being unbiased?

When was the last time someone with his size put up the same type of point totals?

For months I thought that the Sens would draft McLeod (you can look through my post history if so inclined). I actually think he will be a very good player, and would have been perfectly content with the Sens drafting him.

I honestly thought there was a less than 10% chance Brown would be available, because his ceiling his outrageous.

 

[AD1066]

Not to mention... When was the last time a 6'5+ forward lived up to first line expectations?

How many 6'5 guys are drafted with first line expectations?

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

How many 6'5 guys are drafted with first line expectations?

My point exactly?

How many are drafted with that expectation and then how many fulfill that expectation?

The answer is few and why he is far from a sure thing.

 

[AD1066]

My point exactly?

How many are drafted with that expectation and then how many fulfill that expectation?

The answer is few and why he is far from a sure thing.

The answer is few because 6'5 guys make up such a small percentage of the population in the first place. But that tells us nothing about whether Brown is likely or not to succeed.

 

[SensBrawler]

My point exactly?

How many are drafted with that expectation and then how many fulfill that expectation?

The answer is few and why he is far from a sure thing.

You know 6 foot 6 isn't a common height, right? Most of the players that are 6 foot 6 and get drafted are power forwards instead of skilled guys like Brown.

Besides, not too many people are saying he's a sure thing. They're just saying he has a higher potential than you're giving him credit for.

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

The answer is few because 6'5 guys make up such a small percentage of the population in the first place. But that tells us nothing about whether Brown is likely or not to succeed.

It does tell us how he will do - what is Brown some superhuman now who doesnt deserve criticism based on size? Small guys get it all the time but a 6'6" forward is apparently just a sure bet ?

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

hate to be that guy, but i dont think many here have ever truly watched Logan play.

he isnt anything special. his size is what got him drafted unfortunately, and thats why you saw NJ trade down from him. his ceiling is that of a 2C - and that is his CEILING. the guy's size is great but past that he doesnt have elite talent in any aspect of the game. he is all around good, but a safe pick to say the least.

not trying to say he is a bust or what not - but i hope folks dont see him as a 1C or something. if he can be a great 3C to good 2C, i think thats his potential. now whether or not he was first round material... well i dont think so.

i know this will be argued but from a guy whos family friend has done scouting for 15 years... he agrees with me. he thought he was a low 1st/high 2nd.

I don't really know what you are talking about.His vision/passing is fantastic, and he has top six caliber shot and skating. He would have gone in the first round even if he was 6 ft.

 

[Patmac40]

It does tell us how he will do - what is Brown some superhuman now who doesnt deserve criticism based on size? Small guys get it all the time but a 6'6" forward is apparently just a sure bet ?

His size isn't what gives him a high ceiling though. He has high-end vision and passing skills, a great shot when he uses it, powerful skater, and a strong defensive game. His size does give him reach advantage and ability to protect the puck in ways that other people can't. But the reasons why he has a high ceiling is due to his skills and not brute strength or size.

 

[Jerrico]

It does tell us how he will do - what is Brown some superhuman now who doesnt deserve criticism based on size? Small guys get it all the time but a 6'6" forward is apparently just a sure bet ?

This doesn't make any sense. Of course small guys get criticism, hockey is a contact sport where size and reach are a huge asset. The only reason big guys get criticism is when people believe they were picked purely because of their size and don't have the actual skills to back it up. Many people believe that Brown has an incredible skill set, and his size only adds to his potential.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Okay well 5 or 6 times compared to a few years of tape, id take the latter.

I never said he couldnt be dominant in what he did. In fact, his size allows for it quite easily. But he just isnt elite at one specific thing, at least for what I consider elite (because that word is thrown around far too much).

I dont see what is so bad about an all around big 2C behind Turris.

Really cause going into the year scouts saw him as a top ten pick. Most of my viewings of him were toward the end of the season. Everyone talks about Dubois in the prospect game, Brown was the second best player in that game. He was the best player at the u18s IMO. He's got hands. He's got vision. He can skate. If he turns into what he could become you're looking at a Getzlaf/Thornton type player.

 

[AD1066]

It does tell us how he will do - what is Brown some superhuman now who doesnt deserve criticism based on size? Small guys get it all the time but a 6'6" forward is apparently just a sure bet ?

I'm saying you have your cause and effect turned around.

We both agree there are not many 6'5+ first-line forwards.

I'm saying this is because 6'5+ people make up a small percentage of the population, and so do players with first-line potential. A player who checks both boxes is even more rare.

You're saying, if I understand correctly, that there is something inherent about 6'5+ guys that makes them more risky or less likely to succeed in the first place.

 

[CornerStone61]

Im talking to the comments about his elite hands, I know he doesnt have elite hands, hence the 'elite'.

Believe what you want, but a 2C is his future. Nothing wrong with that

Talk about counting your chickens before they hatch. This is pretty rich considering you labelled McLeod as a future 1C in his prospect thread. Surely it's only coincidence that you're a New Jersey Devil fan, and you're totally unbiased right?

Seriously though, this really looks like you're grasping at straws to berate a player who was rated higher than the player your team took just because he was passed on.