C Leo Carlsson (2023, 2nd, ANA)

[majormajor]

I have never agreed with sitting a healthy 18-year old. At that age, they need to play. If they aren't confident he can handle nearly every game in the NHL he shouldn't be up, and if they are confident he can play every day then he should be playing.

HFers generally don't know how much development happens in the gym and at practice. It's most of it. And the more energy you leave for the gym and practice, the faster development is.

Herein lies the issue…

If Carlsson becomes a star, is that due to how he’s being coddled or is it because he’s projected to be one already and simply met his potential? If he fails, is it because of the coddling or that he just didn’t live up to projections?

There will be no sure answer to this so waiting to see, really doesn’t give us the conclusion we’re looking for.

He's going to become a star regardless. You can't screw up a player this intelligent.

I'll argue it will happen faster with more focus on gym and training.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I think the big thing is, were doing this with a power play clicking at 4%... and zegras has 0 goals 1 assist, and terry has played like crap. No killorn, no drysdale, no lundy.

Even without carlsson, i think you can see the culture/style change cronin/PV have brought to the locker room.... and they can still be a tough team to beat without carlsson playing 82/82.

Mintyukov has been a revelation for our defense

That's my whole point, they're 3-4 and not a lot has really gone right, and they've had a really tough schedule. Boston x2, Carolina, Vegas, Dallas... there's really no reason they can't already compete for a playoff spot.

If Carlsson starts to look gassed, I think it's definitely fine to sit him. I understand they're probably planning to get him a specific amount of muscle at this stage, but he's already looking pretty solid out there. I'm no expert but I just think it's such an important thing to show your young players that you're committed to winning over everything.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

That's my whole point, they're 3-4 and not a lot has really gone right, and they've had a really tough schedule. Boston x2, Carolina, Vegas, Dallas... there's really no reason they can't already compete for a playoff spot.

If Carlsson starts to look gassed, I think it's definitely fine to sit him. I understand they're probably planning to get him a specific amount of muscle at this stage, but he's already looking pretty solid out there. I'm no expert but I just think it's such an important thing to show your young players that you're committed to winning over everything.

I agree, guess well just have to wait and see. I think the report said the first 2 months they were only planning to play him 2 games a week, but maybe they cut that down if hes playing the way he has.

 

[majormajor]

If Carlsson starts to look gassed, I think it's definitely fine to sit him. I understand they're probably planning to get him a specific amount of muscle at this stage, but he's already looking pretty solid out there. I'm no expert but I just think it's such an important thing to show your young players that you're committed to winning over everything.

What if they told you that this is the schedule to keep him from getting gassed, and they've already set it so that they don't cross that line? Among other things they're trying to avoid the bad habits that come with the rookie wall.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

What if they told you that this is the schedule to keep him from getting gassed, and they've already set it so that they don't cross that line? Among other things they're trying to avoid the bad habits that come with the rookie wall.

I understand, I'm just not convinced he'll hit the wall. Players with his IQ are less likely to have this issue IMO.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

What if they told you that this is the schedule to keep him from getting gassed, and they've already set it so that they don't cross that line? Among other things they're trying to avoid the bad habits that come with the rookie wall.

You’ve been pretty supportive of this throughout the thread. Just curious, how about if your team was doing this with Fantilli. Would you still be as supportive?

 

[majormajor]

I understand, I'm just not convinced he'll hit the wall. Players with his IQ are less likely to have this issue IMO.

21+ mins and 82 games in about half a year, he's never done anything remotely close to that. They'd have to give up on the physical training program they have for him.

You’ve been pretty supportive of this throughout the thread. Just curious, how about if your team was doing this with Fantilli. Would you still be as supportive?

Fantilli has been a grown man since he was about 15 (unlike Carlsson who had a late growth spurt), I don't know if Adamo needs much rest. But the college schedule doesn't compare to this, I'm not entirely sure he can keep his energy up all year. I think he can.

 

[190Octane]

You’ve been pretty supportive of this throughout the thread. Just curious, how about if your team was doing this with Fantilli. Would you still be as supportive?

I’m supportive of it. I think Verbeek knows more about what it takes to play in the NHL than you or I.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

I’m supportive of it. I think Verbeek knows more about what it takes to play in the NHL than you or I.

The question wasn’t directed at you but thanks for your input.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

21+ mins and 82 games in about half a year, he's never done anything remotely close to that. They'd have to give up on the physical training program they have for him.



Fantilli has been a grown man since he was about 15 (unlike Carlsson who had a late growth spurt), I don't know if Adamo needs much rest. But the college schedule doesn't compare to this, I'm not entirely sure he can keep his energy up all year. I think he can.

I had a feeling your response would be different for Fantilli who, by the way, has also not done anything remotely close to 21+ minutes and 82 games in half a year. I’m just not convinced he needs the coddling, regardless of his late growth spurt. I’m curious if Verbeek would’ve handled Fantilli or Bedard the same way he’s doing with Carlsson. Would be interesting to know his thoughts on it.

 

[Hollel]

That's my whole point, they're 3-4 and not a lot has really gone right, and they've had a really tough schedule. Boston x2, Carolina, Vegas, Dallas... there's really no reason they can't already compete for a playoff spot.

If Carlsson starts to look gassed, I think it's definitely fine to sit him. I understand they're probably planning to get him a specific amount of muscle at this stage, but he's already looking pretty solid out there. I'm no expert but I just think it's such an important thing to show your young players that you're committed to winning over everything.

it’s not that deep dude. The team, player and agent all agreed on this course before the season started. They are taking a cautious approach with an 18yr old kid. Nothing more to dissect here

 

[190Octane]

The question wasn’t directed at you but thanks for your input.

And I’m a ducks fan, so it sort of was.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

And I’m a ducks fan, so it sort of was.

That’s funny because what does being a Duck fan have to do with whether a Columbus fan would support Fantilli having the same path as Carlsson?

 

[LuGBuG]

This has nothing to do with Bedard or a debate between the two, but the way this kid has played has removed any sour taste at all about losing that lottery.

 

[majormajor]

I had a feeling your response would be different for Fantilli who, by the way, has also not done anything remotely close to 21+ minutes and 82 games in half a year. I’m just not convinced he needs the coddling, regardless of his late growth spurt. I’m curious if Verbeek would’ve handled Fantilli or Bedard the same way he’s doing with Carlsson. Would be interesting to know his thoughts on it.

I wish my team had Carlsson, I've always had him ahead.

But you really can't brush away the fact that Bedard and Fantilli are two of the most physically precocious D+1s we've had in a long time. The physical preparation is a big part of why Carlsson is on this plan. Nice try trying to spin it as hypocrisy.

FWIW I've made countless comments over the years saying that players like Kent Johnson, Cole Sillinger and now David Jiricek need more gym and practice time and less games played. Fantilli is exempt from that because he's a freak, not because he's on my team. The Ducks are doing what I've been preaching for a long time.

Edit: I've also repeatedly made the point that the Russian model of forward development that puts training over games played is better. This comes up all the time when HFers are upset that their favorite prospect isn't getting ice time in the KHL, people have no idea how important gym and practice are relative to game time.

 

[CraigBillington]

Will it though?

Putting myself in Leo shoes I see Minty also just 19, first year in league and he gets to play every game. Will Carlsson try to stick it to Verbeek in negotiations?

As example, Eklund played well with Sharks right after his draft. They needed another forward anyways but then after nine games, Sharks sent him back to Sweden. In the final interview before going back to Sweden, Eklund was in his room, answering questions but his face was red, his eyes red, his face very sad. He was crying before, Im sure of it. Future face of Sharks, crying like a baby! He will no doubt remember that when we have to negotiate contract with him and I'm sure he will stick it to us. (That's the story of a mediocre organization like the Sharks, don't be like us Anaheim!!)

You can't baby these kids though. It's likely the first time they've been cut from a team and for some, it can be emotional. I'm sure they're going to forget all about it once they're established and are better players for not having been rushed.

 

[Ducks]

You can't baby these kids though. It's likely the first time they've been cut from a team and for some, it can be emotional. I'm sure they're going to forget all about it once they're established and are better players for not having been rushed.

Nobody is babying him, he's playing 1C minutes and on the ice in critical situations and tonight it was against an undefeated Bruins team. There's no babying or coddling going on here. They have him on a physical development program to get bigger, stronger, and faster and they are prioritizing it over him playing every game on the schedule.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

I wish my team had Carlsson, I've always had him ahead.

But you really can't brush away the fact that Bedard and Fantilli are two of the most physically precocious D+1s we've had in a long time. The physical preparation is a big part of why Carlsson is on this plan. Nice try trying to spin it as hypocrisy.

FWIW I've made countless comments over the years saying that players like Kent Johnson, Cole Sillinger and now David Jiricek need more gym and practice time and less games played. Fantilli is exempt from that because he's a freak, not because he's on my team. The Ducks are doing what I've been preaching for a long time.

Edit: I've also repeatedly made the point that the Russian model of forward development that puts training over games played is better. This comes up all the time when HFers are upset that their favorite prospect isn't getting ice time in the KHL, people have no idea how important gym and practice are relative to game time.

And I wanted Fantilli but had the fear of it potentially being a replay of Byfield/Stutzle. In the end I was more afraid of them choosing Fantilli due to that, as I figured he had more boom/bust potential whereas Carlsson was sure to hit a certain floor. Good to see Fantilli doing well.

It wasn’t meant to be dickish in pointing out the hypocrisy… but more so to show that it’s easier to accept the delayed path for a player not on your team opposed to one that is. Things are always easier when you’re less emotionally invested. (Justlook at the Cbus fans who are upset about Johnson being scratched to see what I’m referring to)

One of your reasons you stated regarding Carlsson was because he’s never played such a long season, which I was countering by stating that Fantilli hasn’t either. Wasn’t meant to be in an aggressive manner. I actually enjoy reading a lot of your posts. No hostility meant by my opposition.

 

[Kalv]

While it's not the best measure, but quite telling about Leo's overall game (outside of his fancy stats) is that he's a +4 in 3 games while playing against top opposition with 2 snakebitten players in Terry (+1) and Zegras (+1). All while averaging 21 minutes a night (most among Ducks F).

I thought he should had gone back to SHL but I think I was wrong, lol.

 

[ducknuts]

Carlsson is the Ducks best player, and Mintyukov is not far behind. Future is bright in Anaheim.

 

[HanSolo]

Carlsson is the Ducks best player, and Mintyukov is not far behind. Future is bright in Anaheim.

I legitimately thought, as late as the Vegas rookie tourney that if he jumped into the league right away he might be around Strome and Vatrano's level with much much higher potential but potential he'd have to work towards.

It's still something awe inspiring to see how effective he is already just three games into his career. Assuming there's a lot of room for growth I don't see how he's not Anaheim's next superstar and heir apparent to Getzlaf.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

I think at this point it's pretty fair to say people like myself were wrong when we thought there was a gap between Fantilli and Carlsson at this point they're equals as prospects they just bring different elements to the table

 

[Peasy]

This kid is going to be a stud regardless of how much he plays this year. Can't teach IQ.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Fantilli has been a grown man since he was about 15 (unlike Carlsson who had a late growth spurt),

Carlsson has almost played 2 full seasons in one of the best pro hockey league's in the world. Carlsson isn't the first player who's went directly into the NHL. I think Verbeek is too careful and it should be increasingly difficult to have him sitting in the stands eating popcorn every second game this season.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

While it's not the best measure, but quite telling about Leo's overall game (outside of his fancy stats) is that he's a +4 in 3 games while playing against top opposition with 2 snakebitten players in Terry (+1) and Zegras (+1). All while averaging 21 minutes a night (most among Ducks F).

I thought he should had gone back to SHL but I think I was wrong, lol.

And those guys won't stay snakebitten forever if they keep generating chances