monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"
C Leo Carlsson (2023, 2nd, ANA) | Page 25 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League
  • Xenforo Cloud upgraded our forum to XenForo version 2.3.4. This update has created styling issues to our current templates, this is just a temporary look. We will continue to work on clearing up these issues for the next few days and restore the site to it's more familiar look, but please report any other issues you may experience so we can look into. Thanks for your patience and understanding.

C Leo Carlsson (2023, 2nd, ANA)

Pretty much comes down to preference. One would think Columbus is looking for a center - if Columbus prefers Smith and Sharks like Michkov, Carlsson could fall to 5th.

Smith isn’t in the same class of prospect as Carlsson. Passing over Carlsson for Smith would be one of the dumbest draft day selections ever. Up there with DiPietro over Heatley and Gaborik bad.
 
Man, you’re really obsessed with the one U18 game against Sweden. Smith looked great against NCAA Division 1 teams all year, doing all the same moves and all the same plays. We don’t know that Smith would “wow” in the SHL, but we also don’t know that he wouldn’t. We’re making an assumption based on his lack of physical tools and a single mediocre U18 game against Sweden.

Take the word “wow” out of my post then. I’ll be straight up. Smith has the offensive tools of a 100 point NHL forward. Carlsson does not. We can argue whether or not Smith’s tools will translate or not, but Smith is without question the player with better offensive tools between him and Carlsson. Smith makes passes Carlsson cannot. Carlsson consistently gets picked off trying to make cross-ice passes on the PP in the SHL because he lacks deception on his playmaking. Smith has an elite shot from anywhere on the ice. Carlsson shoots by far the poorest out of the top-5 guys. Smith’s hands are superior to Carlsson’s, although Carlsson’s are also excellent.

Don’t get me wrong, I still prefer Carlsson to Smith as a prospect. I can’t predict the future, it’s possible Smith is a total bust because he can’t overcome his skating deficiencies. It’s possible Carlsson develops a hitherto undiscovered dynamic element to his offensive game and becomes the next Joe Thornton. I completely understand the allure of that mythical “big two-way #1C”, believe me, I feel it too.

I watched almost every game of Sasha Barkov in his draft year (primarily because it was the only hockey to watch, what with the lockout). Barkov took me out of my seat every game in a way that Carlsson doesn’t. I’m not talking about flash, I’m talking about the ability to make high level plays against men, create goals methodically, and then hustle back on defense. Carlsson does not do that at nearly the level of Barkov.

I actually feel like Carlsson is the rawest prospect in the top-5 of this draft. It would be a huge mistake to put him in the NHL next year, he needs to play somewhere (ideally the AHL) where he can nail down his play selection and learn how to create offense in a league that doesn’t stifle creativity the way that the modern SHL does.


I watched every one of Carlsson’s playoff games. He was excellent. But he didn’t show the level of offensive creativity that Smith has.

What offensive tools does Carlsson have that are better than Smith? I would love to hear someone other than me actually talk about specifics.



I can see I’ve made a lot of people very upset with my post. Which is just absurd because Carlsson has been my favorite draft prospect all year long. Nowhere have I said that Carlsson can’t be a true #1C, or that he won’t be able to score in the NHL or anything like that. All I said is that 1) the comparisons are getting out of hand, 2) he won’t be a 90-100+ point player in the NHL, and 3) his offensive toolkit is inferior to Smith’s. I truly don’t see how any of these things are putting Carlsson down.

I'm not mad. You're assuming some irrational response to your post. I'm calmly telling you that I don't see what you see.

You replaced "wow" with "take you out of your seat" and that is just not what I see. I'm out of my f***ing seat with Leo Carlsson, or at least as much as you can be with any kid playing in the SHL.

I don't think Smith's fakes will get him around NHL defenders very often, and that opinion isn't from one game, thanks for the generous assumption.
 
Probably has to do more with bias as I've learned NJ fans think their players and prospects are way better than they actually are.
Fortunately that is limited to NJD fans as all other team’s fans value their prospects accurately.
 
Still would prefer the Ducks take him. I’m expecting us to take Fantilli, but I’ll be definitely paying attention him in Columbus and hope he has a solid career. Seems like a great kid.
 
Man, you’re really obsessed with the one U18 game against Sweden. Smith looked great against NCAA Division 1 teams all year, doing all the same moves and all the same plays. We don’t know that Smith would “wow” in the SHL, but we also don’t know that he wouldn’t. We’re making an assumption based on his lack of physical tools and a single mediocre U18 game against Sweden.

Take the word “wow” out of my post then. I’ll be straight up. Smith has the offensive tools of a 100 point NHL forward. Carlsson does not. We can argue whether or not Smith’s tools will translate or not, but Smith is without question the player with better offensive tools between him and Carlsson. Smith makes passes Carlsson cannot. Carlsson consistently gets picked off trying to make cross-ice passes on the PP in the SHL because he lacks deception on his playmaking. Smith has an elite shot from anywhere on the ice. Carlsson shoots by far the poorest out of the top-5 guys. Smith’s hands are superior to Carlsson’s, although Carlsson’s are also excellent.

Don’t get me wrong, I still prefer Carlsson to Smith as a prospect. I can’t predict the future, it’s possible Smith is a total bust because he can’t overcome his skating deficiencies. It’s possible Carlsson develops a hitherto undiscovered dynamic element to his offensive game and becomes the next Joe Thornton. I completely understand the allure of that mythical “big two-way #1C”, believe me, I feel it too.

I watched almost every game of Sasha Barkov in his draft year (primarily because it was the only hockey to watch, what with the lockout). Barkov took me out of my seat every game in a way that Carlsson doesn’t. I’m not talking about flash, I’m talking about the ability to make high level plays against men, create goals methodically, and then hustle back on defense. Carlsson does not do that at nearly the level of Barkov.

I actually feel like Carlsson is the rawest prospect in the top-5 of this draft. It would be a huge mistake to put him in the NHL next year, he needs to play somewhere (ideally the AHL) where he can nail down his play selection and learn how to create offense in a league that doesn’t stifle creativity the way that the modern SHL does.


I watched every one of Carlsson’s playoff games. He was excellent. But he didn’t show the level of offensive creativity that Smith has.

What offensive tools does Carlsson have that are better than Smith? I would love to hear someone other than me actually talk about specifics.



I can see I’ve made a lot of people very upset with my post. Which is just absurd because Carlsson has been my favorite draft prospect all year long. Nowhere have I said that Carlsson can’t be a true #1C, or that he won’t be able to score in the NHL or anything like that. All I said is that 1) the comparisons are getting out of hand, 2) he won’t be a 90-100+ point player in the NHL, and 3) his offensive toolkit is inferior to Smith’s. I truly don’t see how any of these things are putting Carlsson down.
Did anyone think Rantanen, Robertson, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Thompson, Point, Marchand or Zibanejad would be 90-100 point players before they were drafted? A little premature to say this definitively.
 
Did anyone think Rantanen, Robertson, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Thompson, Point, Marchand or Zibanejad would be 90-100 point players before they were drafted? A little premature to say this definitively.
If you read the rest of my post, you’ll see that I specifically said “unless Carlsson adds new offensive tools to his current abilities”, which I then went on to say is completely possible.
 
If you read the rest of my post, you’ll see that I specifically said “unless Carlsson adds new offensive tools to his current abilities”, which I then went on to say is completely possible.
Well in fairness, I just went through your extensive post I responded to when I said that, I didn't track the whole conversation so all I was seeing was he doesn't have the tools to get to that level. And that might just boil down to a difference of perspective whereas you might think he doesn't have the tools until he definitively has them, I might think the tools are there but unrefined. But either way, fair point. If there weren't questions about his game there'd be a lot more confidence about where he ends up in the selection order.

Edit: also I'll always respect the perspective of someone who actually watches a prospect play full games. I didn't bother tracking Carlsson intensely until Anaheim was in position to lock in a top 3 pick. So by that point I only had the footage I could find online and scouting reports.
 
A direct one for one? None of them. But there's a definite link between CHL production, age, and eventual NHL production. There's like...a shit ton of evidence linking them.
The same is said for the best SHL scorers in their draft years

or maybe it's because Hughes was just clearly a step above all the other players you listed as a prospect
Well that for a fact isn't it
 
The same is said for the best SHL scorers in their draft years


Well that for a fact isn't it
Absolutely. The original post argued production didn’t matter at all and questioned how this was even a debate. Production in the context of age, competition and trends is one of the most important aspects of hockey prospecting. We all know this, someone just pretended it didn’t matter.
 
Did anyone think Rantanen, Robertson, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Thompson, Point, Marchand or Zibanejad would be 90-100 point players before they were drafted? A little premature to say this definitively.
Yes to Rantanen. The 2015 draft is going to go down as the best and deepest of all time, surpassing 2003. And Rantanen in rankings was as high as 5th at times. So was Barzal and Kyle Connor, etc

The only consensus at the time was Mcdavid #1 and Eichel #2

Everyone from #3 to #20 was scattershot in rankings and it was considered a can't miss draft for 20 picks in terms of superstar talent.
 
And now he's officially the youngest player to play for Sweden at Worlds. The new top 5:

1. Leo Carlsson, 18 years and 136 days
2. Nicklas Bäckström, 18 years and 173 days
3. Daniel Sedin, 18 years and 220 days
4. Henrik Sedin, 18 years and 222 days
5. Peter Forsberg, 18 years and 283 days
What a list!
 
Well in fairness, I just went through your extensive post I responded to when I said that, I didn't track the whole conversation so all I was seeing was he doesn't have the tools to get to that level. And that might just boil down to a difference of perspective whereas you might think he doesn't have the tools until he definitively has them, I might think the tools are there but unrefined. But either way, fair point. If there weren't questions about his game there'd be a lot more confidence about where he ends up in the selection order.

Edit: also I'll always respect the perspective of someone who actually watches a prospect play full games. I didn't bother tracking Carlsson intensely until Anaheim was in position to lock in a top 3 pick. So by that point I only had the footage I could find online and scouting reports.
Totally understandable. And I didn’t mean to let it get out of hand or try and suggest that Carlsson is a lesser prospect for anything I said. I adore him and he’s firmly locked in to 3rd overall in my opinion. If he went 2nd overall, I wouldn’t blink. It’s just exhausting how no one ever seems to bring up Carlsson’s flaws other than his skating (which isn’t much of a flaw) and only ever seem to talk about Smith’s flaws.
 
Some firepower for Carlsson and Orebro next year should he stay one more year in Sweden.

Last years u18 scoring leader at Worlds and current Canuck top Prospect, Jonathan Lekkerimaki is set to be loaned to Orebro for next season.

Would be a very lethal and dynamic line of Carlsson and Lekkerimaki next season.
 
What are the odds of this kid ending up a Blue Jacket? Around 70%?
Tough to say. If it's true that Columbus really loves Smith, then it's a non issue.

I think there's a 90% chance Verbeek takes Fantilli at 2nd overall. Think he checks every box Verbeek would be looking for in a player so I would expect Carlsson to be available to Columbus. On them if they decide he's there guy but I personally think it's a great fit.
 
What are the odds of this kid ending up a Blue Jacket? Around 70%?
I think the fanbase will be very unhappy if they choose Smith over him. And not like in 2016 when they went with Dubois over Puljujärvi. Jarmo and JD have both been very clear in recent interviews and on the local radio that they're choosing a center, so you can eliminate Michkov from their board. It comes down to how Worlds, the combine, and pre-draft interviews go. I personally have been eyeing Carlsson since well before the lottery because I think he's the best fit for the pieces already in house, and I'm pretty excited that the lottery finished in such a way that he is the logical choice (not that I would've turned down Bedard or Fantilli, of course).
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top
-->->